General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Finis website article: One Tool – and Five Sets — That Will Transform Your Swimming Rss Feed  
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2012-02-27 11:27 AM

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Subject: Finis website article: One Tool – and Five Sets — That Will Transform Your Swimming
One Tool – and Five Sets — That Will Transform Your Swimming
http://www.finisinc.com/blog/workouts/one-tool-and-five-sets-that-w...

Finis just published this over the weekend, and I was wondering what your thoughts were? I'm not posting this to criticize anyone, but I really, really want to know what your thoughts are after reading the article. Thank you in advance!


2012-02-27 11:47 AM
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Elite
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Subject: RE: Finis website article: One Tool – and Five Sets — That Will Transform Your Swimming

Up until now I will admit that I mostly dismissed the use of a tempo trainer as a tool - mostly because I knew little about how exactly to use it in training.  The artlcle at least gave me an idea of how to do so.

I have a question though - how easy is it to make the adjustments mentioned in the various sets?  For example, if I want to set it to 10x50 @ 1.19-1.10 (increase tempo by .01 each 50).  What are the steps to accomplish this?  Do I pre-program that and then hit a button after each 50 to roll it over?

2012-02-27 11:51 AM
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Subject: RE: Finis website article: One Tool � and Five Sets � That Will Transform Your Swimming

Transform whose swimming, and to what end?

I'm hesitant, not the least because it sounds like an infomercial. (Is it an infomercial?)

Let's take most beginning-to-intermediate triathlete swimmers. Much of the time, they are in fact focused on their stroke mechanics and timing that they're not 'spacing' out or being 'distracted,' which negates a main reason cited for using the Tempo Trainer.

They're really trying to swim well and make the most of their swim time, which is usually limited.

Another thing is that for this group, so much changes. So much changes. Technique, yes, SPL, water feel, comfort level ... I feel like they'd constantly be setting and re-setting the TT. (Certainly during swims, and that's for anyone doing these sets, but definitely between swims as well).

Finally, and I realize the sets are adjustable, but as for what's suggested--everybody is different, everybody is an individual, and very much of putting in the time swimming (which Terry acknowledges) is finding those paces, places, and strokes that really work for you, for your goals, over the long haul. The question is, can the TT really get you there better and faster?

It--the suggestions in the article, the TT--seems to focus on what's just one part of swimming better and faster, to the exclusion of very much else. Plain old swimming will get you there. I'd have to see a wealth of pretty good anecdotal data that swimmers ARE getting there better and faster with the TT, as suggested, than by other means.

2012-02-27 1:45 PM
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Subject: RE: Finis website article: One Tool – and Five Sets — That Will Transform Your Swimming
I haven't read the article yet but I have the tempo trainer so I just wanted to say it is easy peaty to change the interval beep. In fact the whole thing only has 2 buttons which is to say its just not terribly complicated of a gadget.
2012-02-27 3:03 PM
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Subject: RE: Finis website article: One Tool � and Five Sets � That Will Transform Your Swimming
TriAya - 2012-02-27 10:51 AM

Transform whose swimming, and to what end?

I'm hesitant, not the least because it sounds like an infomercial. (Is it an infomercial?)

Let's take most beginning-to-intermediate triathlete swimmers. Much of the time, they are in fact focused on their stroke mechanics and timing that they're not 'spacing' out or being 'distracted,' which negates a main reason cited for using the Tempo Trainer.

They're really trying to swim well and make the most of their swim time, which is usually limited.

Another thing is that for this group, so much changes. So much changes. Technique, yes, SPL, water feel, comfort level ... I feel like they'd constantly be setting and re-setting the TT. (Certainly during swims, and that's for anyone doing these sets, but definitely between swims as well).

Finally, and I realize the sets are adjustable, but as for what's suggested--everybody is different, everybody is an individual, and very much of putting in the time swimming (which Terry acknowledges) is finding those paces, places, and strokes that really work for you, for your goals, over the long haul. The question is, can the TT really get you there better and faster?

It--the suggestions in the article, the TT--seems to focus on what's just one part of swimming better and faster, to the exclusion of very much else. Plain old swimming will get you there. I'd have to see a wealth of pretty good anecdotal data that swimmers ARE getting there better and faster with the TT, as suggested, than by other means.



TriAya, thanks for your comments. Couple of quick objective answers to your post:

RE Infomercial: Terry received no payment for writing the article. Terry did a tempo trainer clinic for Finis (no fee), the company that sells the tempo trainer. he showed them ways to use their own device that they hadn't even considered. They decided to publish his article. Terry wins by getting exposure. Finis wins by having people buy their tempo trainers. Swimmers win by, well...putting it into practice.

RE Audience: Yes, this is for a selected audience. The sets he writes, even with modifications may not be appropriate for every swimmer at any stage. It is however quite versatile and easy to adapt, even for a short set in practices to many swimmers.

RE Can it get you there better and faster: I'll gladly exchange personal messages on this topic, but want to keep this thread open for discussion and many viewpoints. I don't want to get into debate I just want to hear what others are thinking about after reading this.

Thanks!
2012-02-27 3:05 PM
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Subject: RE: Finis website article: One Tool – and Five Sets — That Will Transform Your Swimming
miamiamy - 2012-02-27 12:45 PM

I haven't read the article yet but I have the tempo trainer so I just wanted to say it is easy peaty to change the interval beep. In fact the whole thing only has 2 buttons which is to say its just not terribly complicated of a gadget.


Probably takes less time to change the setting than to take a swig out of a water bottle. Some sets you set it once and swim the whole set. Other sets you change it after each repetition.


2012-02-27 3:24 PM
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Subject: RE: Finis website article: One Tool – and Five Sets — That Will Transform Your Swimming

My thoughts? I'd get REALLY annoyed with the constant beeping and never use it.

Drills look familiar (ascending/descending times for the same distance, and same pace over different distances) and are nothing revolutionary. 

But, that comes from a very experienced swimmer - not the article's, or product's, target audience.

2012-02-27 3:29 PM
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Subject: RE: Finis website article: One Tool – and Five Sets — That Will Transform Your Swimming
ratherbeswimming - 2012-02-27 2:24 PM

My thoughts? I'd get REALLY annoyed with the constant beeping and never use it.

Drills look familiar (ascending/descending times for the same distance, and same pace over different distances) and are nothing revolutionary. 

But, that comes from a very experienced swimmer - not the article's, or product's, target audience.


Some people do get very annoyed with it. The structure of the sets looks familiar, it is however different swimming beep by beep for a descending set than swimming by feel and pace clock .

Thanks for your thoughts!
2012-02-27 4:32 PM
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Subject: RE: Finis website article: One Tool – and Five Sets — That Will Transform Your Swimming
axteraa - 2012-02-27 1:47 PM

Up until now I will admit that I mostly dismissed the use of a tempo trainer as a tool - mostly because I knew little about how exactly to use it in training.  The artlcle at least gave me an idea of how to do so.

I have a question though - how easy is it to make the adjustments mentioned in the various sets?  For example, if I want to set it to 10x50 @ 1.19-1.10 (increase tempo by .01 each 50).  What are the steps to accomplish this?  Do I pre-program that and then hit a button after each 50 to roll it over?

No answers to my questions?  Cry

2012-02-27 4:52 PM
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Subject: RE: Finis website article: One Tool – and Five Sets — That Will Transform Your Swimming

Assuming that the device is easy to use and the beeps are clear and easy to hear ... it sounds like an idiot-proof way for new swimmers to learn pacing.

Over the course of 7+ years on BT, I've seen many threads from new swimmers who swim way too hard for 50-100 yards and can't build to 500 yards. They have trouble regulating their breathing (because they are swimming too hard) and they don't understand that they have a pace issue and not an "I can't swim" issue.

From that perspective, it sounds like a handy tool to use to teach yourself pacing in the pool. Swim pacing seems very difficult for some people to learn; this takes the guesswork out of it.

I compare this device to me counting my foot strikes per minute while running. Counting my foot strikes keeps me very consistent and even while running. Whenever I've run with music, my pace is erratic, so I never wear an mp3. I need to hear my breathing and foot falls, to keep myself consistent and metronomic. Relating this back to swimming, it sounds like this device is a simple way for new swimmers to quickly regulate their pace.

I would stop short of advocating its usage simply because I haven't used it. I don't recommend products I haven't tried myself.

2012-02-27 6:03 PM
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Subject: RE: Finis website article: One Tool – and Five Sets — That Will Transform Your Swimming
axteraa - 2012-02-27 3:32 PM

axteraa - 2012-02-27 1:47 PM

Up until now I will admit that I mostly dismissed the use of a tempo trainer as a tool - mostly because I knew little about how exactly to use it in training.  The artlcle at least gave me an idea of how to do so.

I have a question though - how easy is it to make the adjustments mentioned in the various sets?  For example, if I want to set it to 10x50 @ 1.19-1.10 (increase tempo by .01 each 50).  What are the steps to accomplish this?  Do I pre-program that and then hit a button after each 50 to roll it over?

No answers to my questions?  Cry



Sorry! For the set you mentioned, it's easy. The TT has just two buttons. Press and hold right button to turn it on. Press right button to slow tempo by .01 seconds, press left button to speed up .01 seconds. It slips under your swim cap or in a goggle clip. Popping it out and pressing one button and putting it back in takes no time at all. So after each 50 you would simply pop it out and hit the button once.


2012-02-27 6:04 PM
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Subject: RE: Finis website article: One Tool – and Five Sets — That Will Transform Your Swimming
Renee, thanks. Yes, it's good for new swimmers too, especially when they may revert to bad technique as their stroke speeds up.

Edited by AdventureBear 2012-02-27 6:06 PM
2012-02-27 6:07 PM
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Subject: RE: Finis website article: One Tool – and Five Sets — That Will Transform Your Swimming

I have an old Finis timer. Super easy to use. But, the beeping drove me to distraction. Son in my case it was worthless as a tool because I couldn't focus. I can't use a metronome for music either, for the same reason. For the percentage of us that are 'beepolie' challenged we would need a different tool.

But, in principle it seems like it would be useful as one more tool in your box, so to speak.

I wonder if a softer tone or more organic sound like a heartbeat would be easier to take?



Edited by Broompatrol 2012-02-27 6:11 PM
2012-02-27 6:20 PM
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Subject: RE: Finis website article: One Tool – and Five Sets — That Will Transform Your Swimming

My opinion is the same as always. Terry is a fantastic and convincing writer....and salesman.

The theories sound awesome when you have someone like Terry to construct the argument for using the device.

If I was a newb...and I was as we all were...I would buy this ingenious device...and I did.

The device now sits in my pile of other "stuff" along with things like my HR monitor and collects dust...ah well, lesson learned.

2012-02-27 8:04 PM
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Subject: RE: Finis website article: One Tool – and Five Sets — That Will Transform Your Swimming
I think the idea is sound enough, but like another poster said, I cannot imagine a beep *helping* me focus - for me it would be the opposite! I do agree with Terry about being able to drown everything out (no pun intended) and 'know' your stroke so well that you know you've made a mistake. If there were only a device that kept me from being so hard on myself when I MAKE those mistakes at least once a lap....grr!
2012-02-27 8:23 PM
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Subject: RE: Finis website article: One Tool – and Five Sets — That Will Transform Your Swimming

I'm a relative novice by comparison to the fish who've already posted. But my $.02...

It's not clear why the tool "works", or would "work" to get me faster using these drills. A big part of my problem is that I cannot hold a constant speed for an entire 1.5 hr practice (I mean my first intervals are always faster than the last ones--not drastically, but 5s/100 ish). I get fatigued. Who doesn't? How does the TT help me fix that? Is it really supposed to? Am I misdiagnosing my own problem(s)? If I have a set turnover target (and why are the listed rates chosen?) instead of stroke form, my stroke is bound to get shorter and choppier and change, instead of become ingrained. Which seems counter to what this tool proposes to help fix. Or at least, Mr. Laughlin suggests this is a possible outcome, but that my recourse is to "focus more"? Maybe I misunderstand how to use TT right per Mr. Laughlin, but I think most novices would become slave to the beep rather than hear it as a "check engine" signal and figure out what needs fixing.

At the same time, I could see this thing being helpful because it's not physical help like fins, buoys, or paddles, so I don't want to be all negative. I'm just not yet convinced enough to spend >$10 on such a thing.

Thanks for the good discussion Suzanne! -J



2012-02-27 8:39 PM
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Subject: RE: Finis website article: One Tool – and Five Sets — That Will Transform Your Swimming
karlaj - 2012-02-27 8:23 PM

It's not clear why the tool "works", or would "work" to get me faster using these drills. A big part of my problem is that I cannot hold a constant speed for an entire 1.5 hr practice (I mean my first intervals are always faster than the last ones--not drastically, but 5s/100 ish). I get fatigued. Who doesn't?

Preach on brother, amen! Screw an hour and a half, I'm losing speed after one mile, and even more after two. Actually after two my speed becomes pretty much zero. Unless you count my walking speed as I get out of the water and walk away.

2012-02-27 9:21 PM
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Subject: RE: Finis website article: One Tool – and Five Sets — That Will Transform Your Swimming
karlaj - 2012-02-27 7:23 PM

If I have a set turnover target (and why are the listed rates chosen?) instead of stroke form, my stroke is bound to get shorter and choppier and change, instead of become ingrained. Which seems counter to what this tool proposes to help fix.


So that's one of the things that can happen is that your stroke count goes up as distance increases...which means you are getting slower. If that's the case your next focus could be doing repeats of shorter distances to "wire in" the good stroke. As you practice the wiring in, the fitness that you need will follow. It's not a magic bullet, it's just a tool to help you diagnose issues.

So in your example, maybe you already know your stroke gets shorter. You wouldn't need to use the TT to figure this out..but you might use it to establish a doable tempo slightly slower than what you're currently doing and see if you can hold stroke count constant. Or do shorter repeats. Or take more rest. The goal would be to use it to find your current limits...then design sets with or without it, to help you improve.
2012-02-27 9:21 PM
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Subject: RE: Finis website article: One Tool – and Five Sets — That Will Transform Your Swimming
fisherman76 - 2012-02-27 7:04 PM
If there were only a device that kept me from being so hard on myself when I MAKE those mistakes at least once a lap....grr!


Only the device that is implanted between your ears...
2012-02-27 9:23 PM
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Subject: RE: Finis website article: One Tool – and Five Sets — That Will Transform Your Swimming
Fastyellow - 2012-02-27 5:20 PM

The device now sits in my pile of other "stuff" along with things like my HR monitor and collects dust...ah well, lesson learned.



So I guess training by HR is useless as well?
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