General Discussion Triathlon Talk » stem height vs seat height Rss Feed  
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2006-05-23 9:15 AM

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Master
2006
2000
Portland, ME
Subject: stem height vs seat height
Is there a generally accepted measurement between seat height and stem height on a tri bike? I understand that ultimately it is what feels comfortable to you but I am wondering if there is a "neutral" point meaning a larger differential between the two is considered an aggressive setup and a shorter differential is not aggressive.

Currently, my stem sits 12cm below my seat and it feels a couple of cm's to low for long rides. I am wondering if I can raise it with losing the areo benefits or if I should just suck it up and continue as is.

Thanks.


2006-05-23 9:38 AM
in reply to: #431267

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Champion
4902
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Ottawa, Ontario
Subject: RE: stem height vs seat height

The aero benefit is only secondary to your being comfortable.  If you feel that raising the stem will be more comfortable then by all means do so. 

Q.  Did you set up the bike yourself or did you have it done by a professional?

2006-05-23 9:43 AM
in reply to: #431310

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Master
2006
2000
Portland, ME
Subject: RE: stem height vs seat height
I had the bike fitted by the owner of the Tri shop I bought it at.
2006-05-23 9:44 AM
in reply to: #431267

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Pro
3705
20001000500100100
Vestavia Hills
Subject: RE: stem height vs seat height

While the 700 Club riders have more expertise in the bike fit question (Bear? Daremo?), I can tell you that the height differential between seat + aeropads (which rest on your handlebars, which are supported by your stem) is based upon "how low you want to go".

The general thought is that the higher your seat, lower your stem the more aerodynamic you are as you would tend to "trap" less air.  That said, not sure that the aerodynamic gain is worth the lack of comfort in a position that is too aggressive - especially if you are going to do longer distance races. (Alternatively, the shorter the distance, the more aggressive you can get insomuch as the discomfort is a cumulative effect - e.g. reach the point that the discomfort gets in the way of performance.)

Something of note of how the bike fitting rules of thumb changes ... the old school of though used to be that the narrower your elbows were in relation to your shoulders, the more aerodynamic and therefore faster you were.  The new school of thought is that the arm rests ought to be spaced just short of in-line with your shoulders in order to allow for greater lung volume.

Remember that you still have to run after the bike, so getting super aggressive on the bike should not be at the expense of the run. The lower you go in your aerobar drop, the more stress you put on your hamstrings and lower back ... two things that can be aggrevated on the run.

Bottomline, I believe it is as you say:

"I understand that ultimately it is what feels comfortable to you..."

2006-05-23 10:19 AM
in reply to: #431319

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Master
2006
2000
Portland, ME
Subject: RE: stem height vs seat height
huengsolo - 2006-05-23 9:44 AM
p>Remember that you still have to run after the bike, so getting super aggressive on the bike should not be at the expense of the run. The lower you go in your aerobar drop, the more stress you put on your hamstrings and lower back ... two things that can be aggrevated on the run.

Bottomline, I believe it is as you say:

"I understand that ultimately it is what feels comfortable to you..."



That is interesting as one of the problems I have noted in my rides is that in aero position, I don't think I'm getting enough power from my hamstrings (the pull portion of the stroke) but I'm not sure what to adjust to correct that.

2006-05-23 12:27 PM
in reply to: #431372

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Cycling Guru
15134
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Fulton, MD
Subject: RE: stem height vs seat height
Brian's answer is pretty good and covers most of what I know in my experience. The thing to remember is:

Lower = flatter = faster.

But it is NOT that comfortable, espoecially when you are not used to it.

If you have 12cm difference, then you are almost 5" lower from your seat to your stem. But is that from the top of your seat to the top of the stem or from the bottom of the seat to the top of the stem?

I used to ideally set up my road bike so that the distance from the bottom of the seat to the top of the stem was about 1" or so (the old school "ideal" position). For a pure TT machine it is as low as you can get it and still pedal strong.

Some stuff from bikesportmichigan:

http://www.bikesportmichigan.com/features/exisitingfit.shtml

http://www.bikesportmichigan.com/bikes/karma.shtml

Here is an early pic of my position when I was tweaking my bike. It has changed slightly, but you get the idea. My seat post is high, but with the aero bar pads it makes it a lot more "level." I actually prefer a much more aggressive position but made the compromise since I am not riding pure TT's only anymore.



(Framing 016.jpg)



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Framing 016.jpg (99KB - 8 downloads)


2006-05-23 12:51 PM
in reply to: #431267

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Champion
10668
500050005001002525
Tacoma, Washington
Subject: RE: stem height vs seat height
Check out the latest articles by Dan Empfield on the Slowtwitch site, especially the latest one on hip angle. Great stuff.

Your 12cm measurement isn't way out there on the extreme end of aero, but the thing to remember is that if you're not comfy, and can't HOLD that position, it isn't doing you any good.

If you feel like you should be higher, then by all means bring the front end up a few cm, then lower it slowly (over several weeks and months) in small increments. You may find yourself back at that 12cm drop, and totally comfy and powerful, somewhere down the line.
2006-05-23 2:38 PM
in reply to: #431267

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Champion
4902
20002000500100100100100
Ottawa, Ontario
Subject: RE: stem height vs seat height
Jeff, a good fitting could take up to 3 hours.  How long did your bike fitting last?  The owner of the Tri shop may know about tri bikes but is he a qualified fitter.  Whatever the case, if you are uncomfortable, you have two options: raise the stem yourself or go back and get re-fitted.

Edited by Machiavelo 2006-05-23 2:40 PM
2006-05-23 5:09 PM
in reply to: #431267

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Elite
3498
20001000100100100100252525
Chicago
Subject: RE: stem height vs seat height

lower = flatter = faster

doesn't always hold true as you can loose power once you go past a certain point even though it means you're "flatter"

lower = flatter = more aerodynamic --> yes, but more aerodynamic doesn't ALWAYS equal going faster because if the reduction in power output outweighs the gain in aerodynamics you'll actually be going SLOWER even though you're in a more aero position.

something to consider...

2006-05-23 5:18 PM
in reply to: #431831

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Master
2006
2000
Portland, ME
Subject: RE: stem height vs seat height
The fitting took about 3 hours, but that included a wetsuit fit so I'd say about 2 hours on the bike. The shop did want me to come back in after a while to tweak the fit and make sure the brake cables and components are opertaing properly.

I'll post a picture to see what you guys think.

Thanks
Jeff
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General Discussion Triathlon Talk » stem height vs seat height Rss Feed