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guy bandits race, gets injured (Page 3)
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 2012-05-18 1:54 PM in reply to: #4217172 |
Member  5452    NC |  Subject: RE: guy bandits race, gets injurednoelle1230 - 2012-05-18 2:48 PM Would I sue because after all, the event encouraged me to speed down this hill? I don't know, you tell us. Regardless, your insurance company might feel otherwise.
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| 2012-05-18 1:59 PM in reply to: #4217181 |
| Subject: RE: guy bandits race, gets injured Goosedog - 2012-05-18 8:54 AM noelle1230 - 2012-05-18 2:48 PM Would I sue because after all, the event encouraged me to speed down this hill? I don't know, you tell us. Regardless, your insurance company might feel otherwise.
x2...and regardless of whether one person says he will or won't sue, there is someone out there that will. It's why races are REQUIRED to have insurance before being given permits to put on such races. As far as the OP, if the plaintifs claims are true, he has a legitimate case to sue IMO. I'm just not sure if I believe him, and most of his argument could come down to he said/she said. |
 2012-05-18 2:27 PM in reply to: #4216397 |
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| 2012-05-18 2:33 PM in reply to: #4217151 |
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| 2012-05-19 2:25 AM in reply to: #4217254 |
| Subject: RE: guy bandits race, gets injured Fred D - 2012-05-18 2:33 PM DMarkSwan - 2012-05-18 2:34 PMWe've got to draw the line somewhere. If law suits like this win, even a few times, we won't have fun, risky events to participate in. For it to reach a level that I would sue, a race orginizer would have to plant a hidden hazard that harmed me. Maybe spikes on the bottom of the mud pit. . Or perhaps if the RD encouraged you to run into a pit full of honey badgers?
Honey Badger don't give no S^%$
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| 2012-05-19 2:28 AM in reply to: #4217254 |
| Subject: RE: guy bandits race, gets injured I did that stupid Warrior Dash last year. I signed the will not jump into the mud pit forms. Sure enough at the mud pit at the end was people from the race company yelling DIVE DIVE DIVE at everyperson that came to the pit. I was on the course a few days before when the pit was dug and prior to water. It was pretty shallow. No real point here, jsut saying. |
| 2012-05-19 5:44 AM in reply to: #4216397 |
| Subject: RE: guy bandits race, gets injured They should award the RD 30 million dollars payable by the bandit. Dishonesty and entitlement should never pay and should be punished. |
| 2012-05-19 6:29 AM in reply to: #4216397 |
Extreme Veteran 612 England | Subject: RE: guy bandits race, gets injured Hope he gets nothing. Hope the RD counter sues for participating illegally and his friend for giving away a race number, then maybe the thousands of other future participants in this (and possibly other) series wont have to pay higher insurance/entry fees |
| 2012-05-19 6:41 AM in reply to: #4217242 |
Master 7712 Orlando | Subject: RE: guy bandits race, gets injured Fred D - 2012-05-18 2:27 PM No question that you never know what you would do in the plaintiffs situation unless it actually happened to you. I suspect many, many would sue. My question is who are you suing and who actually pays. Like Jason said, I think we can safely assume the RD doesn't have $30 million. I can see that the insurance may not be liable either as they probably required the waiver be signed and will argue the RD did not do enough to ensure all participants signed the waiver etc. So I think what you are talking about is suing the town and by that the individuals that live in the town, right? I mean somebody's gonna pay. So would you as a town citizen be ok with this? Even if the insurance company does have to pay, we as future racers will ultimately foot the bill for future race insurance. Nothing is free and that includes large civil payouts. If the plaintiff receives a jury award of $30M (or whatever amount), the company is responsible for the amount. Like any other court case, a judgement is entered against the defendant; the real question becomes collecting on that judgement as it really is just a piece of paper. Sometimes collecting on the judgement means the plaintiff gets to seize and then sell assets of the company to satisfy the judgement. If there are not enough assets to cover the full judgement, the plaintiff will have, in essence, a lien against the company that will effect the company's ability to get credit and which will allow the plaintiff to go back and seize assets as they become available. That is a basic explanation of the process. ETA: I just saw the case style and see he is suing the companies and the managers/owners individually, so he could end up with a personal judgement against them too. And this assumes no insurance coverage. Edited by amd723 2012-05-19 7:01 AM |
| 2012-05-19 6:54 AM in reply to: #4216397 |
| Subject: RE: guy bandits race, gets injured The sad long and short of it is that unless there is a complete defense verdict or the RD is wealthy, the RD will probably be financially ruined. Insurance likely won't cover as an uncovered risk, so any settlement/ judgment comes out of the RD and his co.'s pocket. Meaning no more race. However, I think the RD could win for not owing this guy a duty. Is he a trespasser? There illegally? It certainly is an interesting legal question. It would scare me as an RD however |
| 2012-05-19 7:04 AM in reply to: #4216397 |
| Subject: RE: guy bandits race, gets injured Just read the complaint. Gawd I hate how lawyers write and I'm a lawyer. He has to allege the "they told me to race" stuff to avoid the no duty to trespasser stuff. I highly doubt his story, but in discovery he'll likely say he doesn't know who it was, just some employee of defendant. |
| 2012-05-19 8:50 AM in reply to: #4217868 |
| Coastal Carolina | Subject: RE: guy bandits race, gets injured Puppetmaster - 2012-05-19 3:28 AM If employees/race affiliated people are saying DUVE DIVE DIVE into a pit they know is too shallow to allow for diving, or at least reasonably should have known, then there might be a claim for someone injured, not sure if this guy is included on that if they can prove trespass.I did that stupid Warrior Dash last year. I signed the will not jump into the mud pit forms. Sure enough at the mud pit at the end was people from the race company yelling DIVE DIVE DIVE at everyperson that came to the pit. I was on the course a few days before when the pit was dug and prior to water. It was pretty shallow. No real point here, jsut saying. |
| 2012-05-19 9:33 AM in reply to: #4216397 |
| Regular 92 | Subject: RE: guy bandits race, gets injured I jumped because he wanted to. Even if someone did tell him to DIVE, no one made him and no one pushed him. I believe he's completely at fault |
| 2012-05-19 11:24 AM in reply to: #4218048 |
| Coastal Carolina | Subject: RE: guy bandits race, gets injured bgoldsmith85 - 2012-05-19 10:33 AMI jumped because he wanted to. Even if someone did tell him to DIVE, no one made him and no one pushed him. I believe he's completely at fault I agree but in today's world the call of negligence could be construed if people working at the event were telling him to dive when it was dangerous to do so, which should have been explained to all race officials/volunteers, and the racer in question would not be unreasonable in assuming that the race volunteers/officials would not be telling him to dive if it was dangerous. I agree he is at fault for what happened but if that's what they were doing they were creating a dangerous situation.ETA: Do I think it's negligence? No. Could it be by a legal definition? I think it could. Just My.02Edited by Tripopo 2012-05-19 11:33 AM |
| 2012-05-19 11:47 AM in reply to: #4216397 |
| Regular 261 | Subject: RE: guy bandits race, gets injured What's most scary here is that common sense doesn't apply once you step into a court of law!! Even though most everyone would realize that the mud pit at the end of a 5K mud run isn't 10 feet deep and safe to swan dive into, this bozo can claim that it was "unsafe" with a "firm and unforgiving bottom"!!! Oh the lawyer talk in that court form almost made me vomit, no wonder they get a bad rap! He totally described a fun mud run to a tee in all his lawyer talk as if it was made to maim someone. This guy sounds injured in a bad way, but due to his actions and no one elses. The whole argument, "they told me to do it", didn't work when we were kids and most certainly doesn't apply as an adult. He needs to do the right thing, not easy in this case, and take responsibility for his actions and get on with recovering as best as he can. |
| 2012-05-19 12:12 PM in reply to: #4216397 |
Extreme Veteran 1136 | Subject: RE: guy bandits race, gets injured It's a very unfortunate situation all around. My guess is that the guy knows he's making a dishonest, unethical claim, but has no choice otherwise. He's probably facing financial ruin and strapping his family (if he has one) with a gigantic burden. There's no good outcome here unless he can make a miraculous recovery, but at the end of the day if he wouldn't have tried to get somethin' for nothin' then he wouldn't be in this mess. |
| 2012-05-19 1:46 PM in reply to: #4216397 |
| Champion 5312 Calgary | Subject: RE: guy bandits race, gets injured these races are mostly stupid. People who do them are mostly stupid and have no appreciation for what they are getting into. People who run them are mostly stupid and motivated by profit. Not sure they started out that way but they are now. Some seem to be well run like those longer Sparta races with few racers. I don't know much about waivers or anything at all but I don't know how you can waive your right to be put in a stupid dangerous situation, that would seem to require a one on one discussion with the RD. Say what you want about the morality involved here but I think there is more ethically questionable behavior on the part of a RD who puts together a race that he wants to cover his butt from liability from by having the participants sign off on all possible occurances. That RD is not providing any service that I would want to buy and if you want to buy it, you need to give your head a shake. The bandit factor has nothing to do with the RD ethical or moral responsibility, it could have happened to any participant. Perhaps it covers his butt as far as financial responsibilty goes, perhaps not. Idjits all of them. |
| 2012-05-19 2:08 PM in reply to: #4218209 |
| Sneaky Slow 8694 Herndon, VA, | Subject: RE: guy bandits race, gets injured BigDH - 2012-05-19 2:46 PM these races are mostly stupid. People who do them are mostly stupid and have no appreciation for what they are getting into. People who run them are mostly stupid and motivated by profit. It's true that the plaintiff was paralyzed. Am not convinced this makes the races, the people doing them, and the organizers "stupid." For example... I don't know how many people died doing 5K Muddy Buddy races last year. My guess is zero. On the other hand, at least 5 triathletes died over the course of 2 months last August/September. Maybe we're the "stupid" ones. |
| 2012-05-19 2:22 PM in reply to: #4218217 |
| Champion 5312 Calgary | Subject: RE: guy bandits race, gets injured tealeaf - 2012-05-19 1:08 PM BigDH - 2012-05-19 2:46 PM these races are mostly stupid. People who do them are mostly stupid and have no appreciation for what they are getting into. People who run them are mostly stupid and motivated by profit. It's true that the plaintiff was paralyzed. Am not convinced this makes the races, the people doing them, and the organizers "stupid." For example... I don't know how many people died doing 5K Muddy Buddy races last year. My guess is zero. On the other hand, at least 5 triathletes died over the course of 2 months last August/September. Maybe we're the "stupid" ones. Wanting to put on a very challenging and dangerous race for a bunch of knowledgable and skilled participants is not stupid. See the Barkley Marathons or the Spartan Death Race. The problem with the 5k mud runs etc is that they are advertised as challenging and dangerous when in fact, given the wide range of the skill levels of the participants, they cannot be either. I think one theme here is that people are willing to enter a race and accept the known risks and challenges. The problem is the unknown risks. A standard triathlon has few unknown risks other than the other competitors. Putting on a challenging and dangerous race that in fact is not challenging or dangerous is both challenging and dangerous, also stupid. |
| 2012-05-20 4:38 AM in reply to: #4216397 |
| Regular 1893 Las Vegas, NV | Subject: RE: guy bandits race, gets injured I was in a tri where for the first two stops I kept saying Heed and being met with dumb looks. Once I started saying Gatorade, I got my Heed. Volunteers are "lay people." I'm not listening to them. One told me I needed two race numbers on my number belt instead of one I could flip. If it didn't come from the race director, I don't do it. I wouldn't have listened to the volunteers, my safety, my problem, my judgement. Edited by GatorDeb 2012-05-20 4:39 AM |
| 2012-05-20 7:41 AM in reply to: #4216397 |
| Veteran 307 Liberty Lake, WA | Subject: RE: guy bandits race, gets injured There are quite a few people on this board who have strong legal opinions, and it is unlikely that many people are lawyers. No one here actually knows the complete facts, the law, or how the law in Virginia apply to the facts in this case. The guy was paralyzed. How does everyone know this is BS without more investigation and less speculation? |
| 2012-05-20 7:49 AM in reply to: #4218817 |
| Champion 7036 Sarasota, FL | Subject: RE: guy bandits race, gets injured xine2kgts - 2012-05-20 8:41 AM There are quite a few people on this board who have strong legal opinions, and it is unlikely that many people are lawyers. No one here actually knows the complete facts, the law, or how the law in Virginia apply to the facts in this case. The guy was paralyzed. How does everyone know this is BS without more investigation and less speculation? Welcome to the Internet. That's never stopped a good discussion here before... Mark |
| 2012-05-20 7:51 AM in reply to: #4218821 |
| Extreme Veteran 424 Urbana, MD | Subject: RE: guy bandits race, gets injured RedCorvette - 2012-05-20 8:49 AM xine2kgts - 2012-05-20 8:41 AM There are quite a few people on this board who have strong legal opinions, and it is unlikely that many people are lawyers. No one here actually knows the complete facts, the law, or how the law in Virginia apply to the facts in this case. The guy was paralyzed. How does everyone know this is BS without more investigation and less speculation? Welcome to the Internet. That's never stopped a good discussion here before... Mark Ya - never let the truth get in the way of a good story! |
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