General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Armstrong Wins Ironman 70.3 Florida (w/cool photo). Rss Feed  
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2012-05-24 1:16 AM
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Subject: RE: Armstrong Wins Ironman 70.3 Florida (w/cool photo).
GoFaster - 2012-05-23 3:21 PM
marcag - 2012-05-23 3:57 PM

GoFaster - 2012-05-22 3:20 PM I know it's tough to really tell at that angle, but it doesn't appear he runs all that much drop.  Just a comment, nothing more.

 

3 things I have read recently

1) You only get about 2watts per cm drop as confirmed by the Cervelo guys

2) There is a point where too much drop is less aero as mentionned by the Fitwerks guys in a recent article

3) The more drop, the more the hip angle is closed, the harder it is to generate power.

Some people would have you thinking that if your chin rubs against the front tire you are invisible to air. I suspect Lance found the perfect balance between power and aero.

I agree - there is lots out there to say lower is not necessarily faster/better for the rider.  The position in this pic is certainly not extreme, and you know it's been wind tunnel tested.

 

Word on the street is that he averaged 399 watts for that two hour ride. I think he's gotten his power\aero positon ratio figured out.



2012-05-24 6:41 AM
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Subject: RE: Armstrong Wins Ironman 70.3 Florida (w/cool photo).
Rickz - 2012-05-24 3:16 AM 

 Word on the street is that he averaged 399 watts for that two hour ride. I think he's gotten his power\aero positon ratio figured out.

That's what his posted Strava file for the race says.  399w at 165 HR

http://app.strava.com/rides/8947756

2012-05-24 9:11 AM
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Subject: RE: Armstrong Wins Ironman 70.3 Florida (w/cool photo).
axteraa - 2012-05-24 4:41 AM
Rickz - 2012-05-24 3:16 AM 

 Word on the street is that he averaged 399 watts for that two hour ride. I think he's gotten his power\aero positon ratio figured out.

That's what his posted Strava file for the race says.  399w at 165 HR

http://app.strava.com/rides/8947756

Take that with a grain of salt.  That's Strava's "estimated" power based on the course profile and the user's self-entered weight.  If he was using a power meter you'd see a little lightning bolt icon next to the power value.

2012-05-24 11:27 AM
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Subject: RE: Armstrong Wins Ironman 70.3 Florida (w/cool photo).
Haven't read through all the posts but what I find interesting (and I believe it) is he can ride even faster while still maintaining his run speed. The guy has an endless engine on the bike and don't think he is putting in near the amount of effort he could while still feeling "fresh' afterwards. Could be interesting to see what happens in Kona, which I really believe will be the first time we seem him give max effort on the bike. He is going to want to put in 14-15 minute gap on the runners like Alexander. 
2012-05-24 11:30 AM
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Subject: RE: Armstrong Wins Ironman 70.3 Florida (w/cool photo).
spudone - 2012-05-24 11:11 AM
axteraa - 2012-05-24 4:41 AM
Rickz - 2012-05-24 3:16 AM 

 Word on the street is that he averaged 399 watts for that two hour ride. I think he's gotten his power\aero positon ratio figured out.

That's what his posted Strava file for the race says.  399w at 165 HR

http://app.strava.com/rides/8947756

Take that with a grain of salt.  That's Strava's "estimated" power based on the course profile and the user's self-entered weight.  If he was using a power meter you'd see a little lightning bolt icon next to the power value.

Aha, good to know.  

2012-05-24 11:36 AM
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Subject: RE: Armstrong Wins Ironman 70.3 Florida (w/cool photo).
spudone - 2012-05-23 3:17 PM

In triathlon, however, it seems unfair if he did/does dope because they prob don't test and most other people don't dope.

They do test.

I don't know the prevalence of doping in triathlon, but I'll say anytime there's money involved, even a small amount, there are some willing to try to cheat the system.

And LA tweets every time they show up to randomly test:

Spending a little quality time with the fine folks from . Surprise control - blood and urine.

 



2012-05-24 12:56 PM
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Subject: RE: Armstrong Wins Ironman 70.3 Florida (w/cool photo).

spudone - 2012-05-24 9:11 AM
axteraa - 2012-05-24 4:41 AM
Rickz - 2012-05-24 3:16 AM 

 Word on the street is that he averaged 399 watts for that two hour ride. I think he's gotten his power\aero positon ratio figured out.

That's what his posted Strava file for the race says.  399w at 165 HR

http://app.strava.com/rides/8947756

Take that with a grain of salt.  That's Strava's "estimated" power based on the course profile and the user's self-entered weight.  If he was using a power meter you'd see a little lightning bolt icon next to the power value.

I don't care if it's just an estimate.  Even if it's off by 10%, that's still 360 watts for 2 hours.  I'm thrilled when I can push 200 watts for a HIM and would be ecstatic if I could get to 210 or 220.




Edited by dgunthert 2012-05-24 12:58 PM
2012-05-24 1:02 PM
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Subject: RE: Armstrong Wins Ironman 70.3 Florida (w/cool photo).
dgunthert - 2012-05-24 10:56 AM

spudone - 2012-05-24 9:11 AM
axteraa - 2012-05-24 4:41 AM
Rickz - 2012-05-24 3:16 AM 

 Word on the street is that he averaged 399 watts for that two hour ride. I think he's gotten his power\aero positon ratio figured out.

That's what his posted Strava file for the race says.  399w at 165 HR

http://app.strava.com/rides/8947756

Take that with a grain of salt.  That's Strava's "estimated" power based on the course profile and the user's self-entered weight.  If he was using a power meter you'd see a little lightning bolt icon next to the power value.

I don't care if it's just an estimate.  Even if it's off by 10%, that's still 360 watts for 2 hours.  I'm thrilled when I can push 200 watts for a HIM and would be ecstatic if I could get to 210 or 220.


Could be off in the other direction, too

2012-05-24 1:21 PM
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Subject: RE: Armstrong Wins Ironman 70.3 Florida (w/cool photo).
spudone - 2012-05-24 2:02 PM
dgunthert - 2012-05-24 10:56 AM

spudone - 2012-05-24 9:11 AM
axteraa - 2012-05-24 4:41 AM
Rickz - 2012-05-24 3:16 AM 

 Word on the street is that he averaged 399 watts for that two hour ride. I think he's gotten his power\aero positon ratio figured out.

That's what his posted Strava file for the race says.  399w at 165 HR

http://app.strava.com/rides/8947756

Take that with a grain of salt.  That's Strava's "estimated" power based on the course profile and the user's self-entered weight.  If he was using a power meter you'd see a little lightning bolt icon next to the power value.

I don't care if it's just an estimate.  Even if it's off by 10%, that's still 360 watts for 2 hours.  I'm thrilled when I can push 200 watts for a HIM and would be ecstatic if I could get to 210 or 220.


Could be off in the other direction, too

The amount of extra watts to gain a little speed is always remarkable. To average right around 20 mph on my tri bike I can cruise at around 180 watts. In order to get 22 mph I need around 240 watts. To get to 24 mph we're talking around 280-300 watts. This is for about an hour of riding and without any race gear (helmet, wheels, etc). I think I weigh pretty close to Lance (around 165), so I think that to get to 28 mph it's pretty reasonable to surmise that he was pushing 375+ watts for that race.



Edited by natethomas2000 2012-05-24 1:22 PM
2012-05-24 1:39 PM
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Subject: RE: Armstrong Wins Ironman 70.3 Florida (w/cool photo).
It is always humbling to read about what the pros can hold for either a 70.3 or Full. That's one of the cool things about this sport. An amateur can read about and "compare" themselves to the very best in the world. That's hard to do with most other sports. I will never hold 399 watts for 5 minutes, but it's still interesting to think about!
2012-05-24 4:19 PM
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Subject: RE: Armstrong Wins Ironman 70.3 Florida (w/cool photo).
natethomas2000 - 2012-05-24 2:21 PM
spudone - 2012-05-24 2:02 PM
dgunthert - 2012-05-24 10:56 AM

spudone - 2012-05-24 9:11 AM
axteraa - 2012-05-24 4:41 AM
Rickz - 2012-05-24 3:16 AM 

 Word on the street is that he averaged 399 watts for that two hour ride. I think he's gotten his power\aero positon ratio figured out.

That's what his posted Strava file for the race says.  399w at 165 HR

http://app.strava.com/rides/8947756

Take that with a grain of salt.  That's Strava's "estimated" power based on the course profile and the user's self-entered weight.  If he was using a power meter you'd see a little lightning bolt icon next to the power value.

I don't care if it's just an estimate.  Even if it's off by 10%, that's still 360 watts for 2 hours.  I'm thrilled when I can push 200 watts for a HIM and would be ecstatic if I could get to 210 or 220.


Could be off in the other direction, too

The amount of extra watts to gain a little speed is always remarkable. To average right around 20 mph on my tri bike I can cruise at around 180 watts. In order to get 22 mph I need around 240 watts. To get to 24 mph we're talking around 280-300 watts. This is for about an hour of riding and without any race gear (helmet, wheels, etc). I think I weigh pretty close to Lance (around 165), so I think that to get to 28 mph it's pretty reasonable to surmise that he was pushing 375+ watts for that race.

Those numbers are pretty much in line with the general rule of thumb - 10% speed means you need to create 30% more power (assuming everything else is equal).

What continues to mystify me (as I hijack this thread) is how I can put out 180 watts, weigh less than you - and a lot of others, and not "cruise" at 20mph.  Bike and position were a big contributor in the past, but on my new bike I'm not putting out this type of speed, yet lots of people are... [/rant]



2012-05-24 6:56 PM
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Subject: RE: Armstrong Wins Ironman 70.3 Florida (w/cool photo).
GoFaster - 2012-05-24 6:19 PM

Those numbers are pretty much in line with the general rule of thumb - 10% speed means you need to create 30% more power (assuming everything else is equal).

What continues to mystify me (as I hijack this thread) is how I can put out 180 watts, weigh less than you - and a lot of others, and not "cruise" at 20mph.  Bike and position were a big contributor in the past, but on my new bike I'm not putting out this type of speed, yet lots of people are... [/rant]

Start a thread and post some pics of your position!  180 watts and 20mph is about right for me too with training gear on a flat road.

2012-05-24 7:05 PM
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Subject: RE: Armstrong Wins Ironman 70.3 Florida (w/cool photo).

"What continues to mystify me (as I hijack this thread) is how I can put out 180 watts, weigh less than you - and a lot of others, and not "cruise" at 20mph.  Bike and position were a big contributor in the past, but on my new bike I'm not putting out this type of speed, yet lots of people are..."

A possible contributing factor is that it is often not accurate to compare power readings across platforms, even within the same brand/model of device. Example: Comparing Computrainer power number to Powertap, or Powertap to SRM. Even comparing one brand and model of power measurement unit to the same unit- two guys riding the same brand and model- equal efforts may not produce identically measured outputs.

I've seen wildly different results at what "seemed" (... I know, I know...) a similar effort based on perceived exertion and heart rate.

Power data is usually at its best integrity only when comparisons are made using the same device with the same athlete over time, but when you go unit-to-unit it gets fuzzy.

2012-05-24 8:33 PM
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Subject: RE: Armstrong Wins Ironman 70.3 Florida (w/cool photo).
Tom Demerly. - 2012-05-24 8:05 PM

"What continues to mystify me (as I hijack this thread) is how I can put out 180 watts, weigh less than you - and a lot of others, and not "cruise" at 20mph.  Bike and position were a big contributor in the past, but on my new bike I'm not putting out this type of speed, yet lots of people are..."

A possible contributing factor is that it is often not accurate to compare power readings across platforms, even within the same brand/model of device. Example: Comparing Computrainer power number to Powertap, or Powertap to SRM. Even comparing one brand and model of power measurement unit to the same unit- two guys riding the same brand and model- equal efforts may not produce identically measured outputs.

I've seen wildly different results at what "seemed" (... I know, I know...) a similar effort based on perceived exertion and heart rate.

Power data is usually at its best integrity only when comparisons are made using the same device with the same athlete over time, but when you go unit-to-unit it gets fuzzy.

Oh, I realize this.  I'm running a PT so in theory my absolute number should be a little lower than a crank based unit, but I admit to getting frustrated for what I feel are decent numbers but am not getting the speed.  Will post a vid sometime very soon...

2012-05-24 10:00 PM
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Subject: RE: Armstrong Wins Ironman 70.3 Florida (w/cool photo).
GoFaster - 2012-05-24 4:19 PM Those numbers are pretty much in line with the general rule of thumb - 10% speed means you need to create 30% more power (assuming everything else is equal).

What continues to mystify me (as I hijack this thread) is how I can put out 180 watts, weigh less than you - and a lot of others, and not "cruise" at 20mph.  Bike and position were a big contributor in the past, but on my new bike I'm not putting out this type of speed, yet lots of people are... [/rant]

I know exactly what you mean. I put out good power compared to a lot of others (very similar to Nate), but don't seem to have quite the same speed. I am a little bigger, but don't think I'm that much bigger. Well aware of what Tom said too. Just keep waiting for the bike fairies to show up.



Edited by brigby1 2012-05-24 10:01 PM
2012-05-25 1:50 AM
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Subject: RE: Armstrong Wins Ironman 70.3 Florida (w/cool photo).
Total Newb Questions:  How do you measure your watts?  How would I do that?  Do I need special equipment, or can I go to my LBS or somewhere else?


2012-05-25 7:03 AM
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Subject: RE: Armstrong Wins Ironman 70.3 Florida (w/cool photo).

Muskrat37 - 2012-05-25 1:50 AM Total Newb Questions:  How do you measure your watts?  How would I do that?  Do I need special equipment, or can I go to my LBS or somewhere else?

You need a power meter. LBS might carry one or two types, but should know of options available.

2012-05-29 5:41 PM
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Subject: RE: Armstrong Wins Ironman 70.3 Florida (w/cool photo).

I just finished reading "It's Not About The Bike" by Lance...

 

Easily one of my favorite books of all time, I would recommend it to anyone...

2012-05-29 5:50 PM
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Subject: RE: Armstrong Wins Ironman 70.3 Florida (w/cool photo).
It is a great read because it is such an incredible story. His other books with Chris Charmichael are worthy reads too.
2012-05-29 8:37 PM
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Subject: RE: Armstrong Wins Ironman 70.3 Florida (w/cool photo).

Tom Demerly. - 2012-05-29 5:50 PM It is a great read because it is such an incredible story. His other books with Chris Charmichael are worthy reads too.

 

Thanks Tom.  I will check into those as well

 

It only took me about 4 hours to read "It's not about the bike"

2012-05-29 11:07 PM
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Subject: RE: Armstrong Wins Ironman 70.3 Florida (w/cool photo).

Muskrat37 - 2012-05-25 1:50 AM Total Newb Questions:  How do you measure your watts?  How would I do that?  Do I need special equipment, or can I go to my LBS or somewhere else?

You need a special piece of equipment that measures torque and converts it to watts.  The best known systems are PowerTap, Quarq, and SRM.  A little searching on each will give you the details.



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