General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Am I working too hard? Rss Feed  
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2012-09-02 9:10 PM

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Subject: Am I working too hard?

Background Info:  345 lb (down from 396), 54 yr old male (MHR ~166), former Marine who truly believes you have to give 100% every time to achieve results.  I had a physical in July.  BP was 118/80.  Blood work the next day was all on the good side of desirable, by at least 10% in every category.  Cholesterol was only 163.  A1C was 5.7%.   I was completely sedentary until the beginning of June.  Spent the month of June swinging a 10 lb sledge hammer 45m to 1h per day, busting up concrete of defunct swimming pool.  Mid-June started walking 1 mile (20m) per day.  July 1st was walking 1 mile with wife (~23m) and another alone (under 20).  Mid-July upped distance to 2 miles (3x week) for solo walk and added cycling 4.5 miles (3x week).  Beginning of August was when I first got serious about doing a tri.  Added swimming (3-4x week) for about 10 workouts a week.  I'm pretty sure my training calendar is public.

Last week my wife bought me a Timex Global Trainer (GT) for my birthday and to help me prepare for my first tri, the Blueman Tri on October 13th.  I've had three workouts with it so far.  On the first one, a bike, I was solidly in zone 4, averaging 138 for my HR, with a peak of 152 at one point.  Then I flatted and walked the bike home, turning it into a brick.  My HR averaged 128 on the way home.  The next day was a walk day (3.7 miles) with a 1/4 mile 4% grade at the 3 mile mark.  I averaged a 16:30 pace with HR avg of 133.  However, at one point climbing that hill I hit a 164 HR (recall my MHR is supposedly 166).  Yesterday I got my bike back from the shop and started a new route, to avoid railroad tracks and damage to my bike.  I was just clearing the last BIG hill on the ride and feeling really great about doing it when I flatted again.  As I was waiting for my ride to come pick me up I reviewed my ride data.  My AvgHR was nice, at 138.  However, this time I actually exceeded my MHR, hitting a high of 168 on that hill.

Question:  How strict is that whole MHR thing?  Am I endangering myself by flirting with it?  I have experienced no pain, no dizziness, no nausea during these heavy exertions.  My breathing has subsided fairly quickly as soon as I have cleared each hill and reduced my efforts.  Is this like those blasted 1953 Met Life height/weight charts that are for "average" folks, but I've NEVER fit them?  For instance, those charts say I should not exceed 194 pounds.  Well, I graduated Parris Island at 210 lbs and had only 10% body fat according to the dunk test they gave me.  My medical records have a waiver in them that says I could go as high as 225 lbs and still be at only 15%.  Is it likely that my MHR is not accurate at 166? Could it be that my good blood values indicate I have a little room to play here?  I know I don't want to do an entire 1h workout at that level, but is it dangerous to hit a peak like that now and then?



2012-09-02 9:54 PM
in reply to: #4392604

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Subject: RE: Am I working too hard?
I might be the first to say it, but did you use the 220-age to get your MHR?

Read this article to get a better understanding of your specific MHR and your HR zones.

http://beginnertriathlete.com/mobile/ForumThreadPosts.asp?fid=26&tid=25734

Jonathan
2012-09-02 10:12 PM
in reply to: #4392604


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Subject: RE: Am I working too hard?

Its obviously not 166 if you hit 168.  You won't cause any damage to yourself hitting your max HR.  If you do some searching, you can find some methods for testing to find your approximate max HR.

2012-09-03 12:34 PM
in reply to: #4392604

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Subject: RE: Am I working too hard?

leatherneckpa - 2012-09-02 7:10 PM
Question:  How strict is that whole MHR thing?  Am I endangering myself by flirting with it?  I have experienced no pain, no dizziness, no nausea during these heavy exertions.  My breathing has subsided fairly quickly as soon as I have cleared each hill and reduced my efforts.  Is this like those blasted 1953 Met Life height/weight charts that are for "average" folks, but I've NEVER fit them?  For instance, those charts say I should not exceed 194 pounds.  Well, I graduated Parris Island at 210 lbs and had only 10% body fat according to the dunk test they gave me.  My medical records have a waiver in them that says I could go as high as 225 lbs and still be at only 15%.  Is it likely that my MHR is not accurate at 166? Could it be that my good blood values indicate I have a little room to play here?  I know I don't want to do an entire 1h workout at that level, but is it dangerous to hit a peak like that now and then?

First, a "max heart rate" or "zones" constructed by any formula is not going to be specific to you, but only "kinda close" to you.  The "mhr=220-age" formula takes only one vague datapoint (your age) so is by definition a very broad rule of thumb.  There's an updated version - 206.9 - (0.67 x age) that has been shown to be closer, but still takes only one datapoint.

The Karvonen fomula takes two datapoints (your age, your resting heart rate) and will be a bit closer.  There are a few other adjustments that can be added to this ("-5 if you are sedentary, +5 if you work out twice per week") and all that, but again it's just a formula.

If you really want to determine your ranges, then you need either a field test protocol or a medical test protocol.  Either go run on a track with an HRM, follow the protocol, and calculate your ranges, or visit a sports medicine clinic, get hooked up with a mask, run on a treadmill, have them measure your oxygen intake, take blood samples once per minute, and so on, and voila - you get accurate numbers specific to you. I recommend the field test protocol and there are several articles on BT on how to do this.  Until then, go with the Karvonen formula for your MHR and zones.

A a high heart rate at a relatively low level of exertion is to be expected for someone with poor overall conditioning and not much experience.  A beginner triathlete, in other words.  To explain:

HR is a lagging indicator of the workload put on your body:

  • Your brain says "muscles, do X (climb this hill, swing this hammer, run 10 minutes per mile),
  • your muscles say "heart, I need Y amount of oxygen to perform workload X", and
  • your heart responds by "I'm going to beat at Z beats per minute to send Y oxygen to you, muscles".

And thus you're climbing that hill, swinging that hammer, or running those 10 minutes per mile.

If you are well trained, have a metabolic system that produces energy efficiently, and have good running or cycling form, then to perform workload X you will need less oxygen Y and thus a lower bpm Z.  If you are out of shape, have an inefficient metabolic system, poor form, etc, then your heart rate will be significantly higher in comparison.

You're saying you feel fine but your HR is really high.  How you feel is often called RPE - rating of perceived exertion.  Here's a good chart that explains (I like the 10 point scale, there's another with 20 points I don't like): http://sbrworkouts.com/rpe-scale-description

Based on your description above, I'd say you were climbing the hill at RPE 8, maybe flirting with 9, and thus it's to be expected your HR was nearing your max HR because you were in zone 5 which tops out at your max HR. 

And that all makes sense: your HR is matching your level of exertion fairly closely.  If you really want to climb hills at zone 5, go for it but it's a pretty tough workout, you might want to consider climbing at zone 4 or a little lower end of zone 5.  You said you're the 100% type and it sounds like it.

2012-09-03 1:12 PM
in reply to: #4392604

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Subject: RE: Am I working too hard?
I'm no exercise phys. but I've read that breathing, awareness & will to continue are better indicators of total output than heart rate monitors.  
2012-09-03 7:52 PM
in reply to: #4392604

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Subject: RE: Am I working too hard?

Don't sweat the HR values. If you're about to keel over, your body will let you know. As others have said, experience will gradually teach you what your real MHR is. You'll also find that on hot summer days, especially if you get a bit dehydrated, then your HR can get surprisingly high.

Having said this: you mention that you "truly believe you have to give 100% every time to achieve results". Now that sounds like a nice slogan, it exudes toughness, but it's not really the way to get results in S/B/R. Training smart, and training consistently, is more important than training hard. It's important to mix up the distances and intensities in your training, and recovery is a key element of the training -- that's when your body adapts. If you want to burst a vein or two, focus on the bike for that for now. For the run, not so much. 

Good luck.



2012-09-03 7:59 PM
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Subject: RE: Am I working too hard?
The problem with ANY formula is that there is going to be a standard deviation. Meaning that very few peole will actually get an accurate result from the formula...a few will, but most will not, then they will either be training with improper zones, or will develop angst when they exceed their MHR (impossible to do so of course).

If your calculated MHR is 166 and the highest HR you've ever seen is 168, then the formula is actually pretty close for you...but only because you are lucky.

All the other advise here is spot on
2012-09-03 9:00 PM
in reply to: #4392604

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Subject: RE: Am I working too hard?
Everyone has great advice for you. I would add one thing. There are some interesting studies out there of people who do not fall in the general guidelines. You'll need to do a search for them. I know Lance Armstrong is said to have a max hr of at least 200. For myself, my heart apparently forgot to read the guidelines. I tend to go close to 200 for my max efforts. IF you are concerned, have yourself checked out by your doctor.
2012-09-04 9:01 AM
in reply to: #4392604

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Subject: RE: Am I working too hard?

My resting heart rate is 53, my age is 47.  The highest HR I've seen is 203, so the max formulas don't work well for me.

 

And yes, if every single training session is 100% effort then you are training too hard.



Edited by brucemorgan 2012-09-04 9:02 AM
2012-09-04 9:11 AM
in reply to: #4392604

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Subject: RE: Am I working too hard?

I lack the expertise to speak to the heart rate issue, but as an aside, I'd strongly recommend you carry a flat repair kit/extra tube and practice fixing flats.  It's just a part of cycling.  IMHO.  LOL.

According to charts, my max HR is 165, but I frequently peak in the high 170's during workouts.

2012-09-04 11:46 AM
in reply to: #4392604

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Subject: RE: Am I working too hard?

First, congratulations on your commitment to take control of your health and fitness.

The answers to your HR questions are here (this thread should be manditory reading for all newbies):

http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=25733&start=1

 

As far as your flatting problems, the first thing that comes to mind is that you're having pinch flats.  What air pressure are you running in your tires?  Need to make sure you're keeping them pumped up.  I also second the suggestion to learn how to fix a flat tire.

It sounds like you were in great shape when you were on active duty.  You didn't get out of shape overnight, so you need to stay patient as you work to regain your fitness.  If you are consistent with your training and stick with it, results will come over time.   Consistency is the key.

You didn't mention anything about your diet in your post, but I assume you are giving that as much attention as your exercise program. 

Good luck to you.

Mark

 

 



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