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2012-10-22 12:58 PM
in reply to: #4461905

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Subject: RE: Etiquette Question
We’ve all seen “that guy” at races. Just don’t be that guy. What you did was fine.


2012-10-22 2:02 PM
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Subject: RE: Etiquette Question

Interesting thread.  Most people say what the OP'er did was fine and I agree.  It's a race.  Maybe you are not racing the guy next to you in the finish chute but you are sure as heck racing yourself. 

On a side note, during a recent 10K race I participated in, I was having a rather rough run.  I wasn't going to hit any personal goals and was in no position to place in my AG either.  I was coming up to one guy who was struggling with maybe a 1/4 mile to go.  Him and I agreed to finish together since we were both not having any fun. 

As we were within 20 yards of the finish line, a 16 year old girl went flying by us. 

She finished strong and I had no problem with that.

 

2012-10-22 2:05 PM
in reply to: #4461905

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Subject: RE: Etiquette Question

kremedi - 2012-10-20 7:18 PM

 A few people in the finishers area took issue with this and thought I was showing poor form.

Curious to know what exactly was said to you.

2012-10-22 2:21 PM
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Subject: RE: Etiquette Question
Good work!
I celebrate at the end.

If it was easy winning wouldn't be worth it.
2012-10-22 2:35 PM
in reply to: #4461905

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Subject: RE: Etiquette Question

RACE! RACE! RACE! 

Nothing wrong with racing a race, methinks.

Pass me AFTER we cross the line and are in the chute to hand over our tags in a non-electronic race (has happened), and we're having words - strong words and a changing of position to represent our relative finishes...   (I know this isn't what you're talking about - more a general comment).

Heck, if I'm not sprinting in a sprint, what am I doing?  I admit to running a bit faster if there's someone to pass, but that's just motivation in a RACE, not me trying to stick it to anyone in particular or in a bad way...  Just helps me to dig deeper.

I am also very quick to thank and congratulate people who either push me and beat me, or push me and cross just behind.  A "great run!" goes a long way...

 

(edited for grammar, as I have to lives by what I tells my kids!)



Edited by mcmanusclan5 2012-10-22 2:37 PM
2012-10-22 4:00 PM
in reply to: #4461905

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Subject: RE: Etiquette Question

Thanks to everyone for the kind words.  I think the general consensus is that I was within the boundaries of fair play.  I thought so too, but still wanted to make sure since I only have a few races under my belt.  After the finish, the guy I sprinted with gave me a high five and we talked for a minute (between my gasps) He said he thought he dropped me but knew I was back there somewhere.  I knew he didnt have any problems with the finish.  A few other racers who had finished ahead of us made their opinions abundantly clear that they thought it was BS I had passed someone at the last second who had just passed me a little earlier, and suggested I was sandbagging or trying to show people up.  Whatever.  I got 14th instead of 15th out of 44 in my AG (M 35-39) and am thrilled with my race. 

Incidentally, I have totally "drank the Triathlon Kool-aid."  In the last few months I bought a used Cervelo P2 off a friend of mine to replace a used Cannondale road bike I had been riding.  I started waking up at 3:30 to ride in the mornings, and signed up for trainerroad for trainer rides.  My pool workouts have increased dramatically (I was 7th in AG out of the water) which is a HUGE jump for me.  I even started "shaving" places that have historically been pretty hairy.  Big changes for me but I'm psyched about all this!  Thanks again everyone, BT has been a great source of knowledge for me.  I'm having a blast



2012-10-22 4:17 PM
in reply to: #4464097

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Subject: RE: Etiquette Question
kremedi - 2012-10-22 4:00 PM

Thanks to everyone for the kind words.  I think the general consensus is that I was within the boundaries of fair play.  I thought so too, but still wanted to make sure since I only have a few races under my belt.  After the finish, the guy I sprinted with gave me a high five and we talked for a minute (between my gasps) He said he thought he dropped me but knew I was back there somewhere.  I knew he didnt have any problems with the finish.  A few other racers who had finished ahead of us made their opinions abundantly clear that they thought it was BS I had passed someone at the last second who had just passed me a little earlier, and suggested I was sandbagging or trying to show people up.  Whatever.  I got 14th instead of 15th out of 44 in my AG (M 35-39) and am thrilled with my race. 

And if you were? Great race strategy. Others should take notes.



Edited by lisac957 2012-10-22 4:18 PM
2012-10-22 10:23 PM
in reply to: #4461905

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Subject: RE: Etiquette Question
In the words of Vin Diesel:  "It doesn't matter if you win by a second or a mile, winning is winning!”
2012-10-23 10:14 AM
in reply to: #4462366

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Subject: RE: Etiquette Question
brucemorgan - 2012-10-21 1:06 PM

As for the IM finish line, well now that's complicated.  After having been in 8 of them, there's a time to pass people and a time to not pass people.

Apparently I see things differently. Ironman is still a race. Not a fun run or a parade. Prance around and wave after you cross the line if you don't like being passed at the finish.

2012-10-23 10:47 AM
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Subject: RE: Etiquette Question

One of my most memorable finishes was catching and passing one of my training partners with about 50 feet to go in an Olympic in 2008.  He crushed the swim and I was playing catchup the whole race.  I beat him by 5 seconds.  I did not stop digging until I crossed the line. 

And we rode home together in the same car!

OAage nametownswim rankswim timeT1 timebike rankbike timeT2 timerun rankrun time overall time 
10435 BILL BASSAPEX NC34100:32:0000:03:016701:06:4200:01:015200:43:36 02:26:19 
10538 PATRIC LANECARRBORO NC4200:24:0800:02:3819701:11:3600:01:2311700:46:37 02:26:20 
10637 GREG WARRENRALEIGH NC800:20:4200:02:0220201:11:4100:01:3521300:50:25 02:26:24


Edited by fgump 2012-10-23 10:49 AM
2012-10-23 10:55 AM
in reply to: #4461905

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Subject: RE: Etiquette Question

I think the OP should ask himself this question:

Would I have run the final 200 meters differently if there was nobody in front of me?

If the answer is yes then you like beating people.  That's great if you understand what you are doing and that's your thing.

I'm never going to be in podium contention so the clock is my competitor. If i'm looking up at the clock and seeing that if I sprint I can go under 6 hours for a HIM then I'm sprinting to barf.  If there was somebody in front of me in the chute I would have the courtesy to yell "Here I come!" so they have the option of pouring it on if they want to as opposed to being surprised.

If the answer is no to the question then don't worry about etiquette.  You paid to run your race so race it.



Edited by kingofbanff 2012-10-23 11:09 AM


2012-10-23 10:58 AM
in reply to: #4465263

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Subject: RE: Etiquette Question

OK, I will go against the grain - sort of.

First of all, nothing was done wrong, it's a race.

I'm only speaking for MYSELF.  I run these races for me.  Against the clock and my previous performances.  And of course I look at my results against the other runners.

But when I'm going down to the finish, I will run as hard as I can at that time for my race.  if there are people in front of me or not.   BUT, if there is some other person in front do I try to push extra hard to beat them out by a step?  Probably not.  I guess I don't get any significant gratification struggling to outstep someone across the finish line when I'm already 1/3 down the pack.  Sprint to be 500th place instead of 501?  Maybe get one second lower time?

Sort of like celebrating getting a touchdown when you are 35 points down.  You got a lot more work to do.

Now, I WILL check behind me and try to hold anyone off if they are doing that to me.  I'm not going to give a way spots, but going all out to beat the 12yr old, or 50 yr old women, or even someone in my AG when I'm clearly out of the podium spots or rolldown spots for IM is not for me.  I take joy in improving my time and racing the clock, not outkicking someone for 600th place.

 

2012-10-23 11:08 AM
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Subject: RE: Etiquette Question
Kido - 2012-10-23 8:58 AM

OK, I will go against the grain - sort of.

First of all, nothing was done wrong, it's a race.

I'm only speaking for MYSELF.  I run these races for me.  Against the clock and my previous performances.  And of course I look at my results against the other runners.

But when I'm going down to the finish, I will run as hard as I can at that time for my race.  if there are people in front of me or not.   BUT, if there is some other person in front do I try to push extra hard to beat them out by a step?  Probably not.  I guess I don't get any significant gratification struggling to outstep someone across the finish line when I'm already 1/3 down the pack.  Sprint to be 500th place instead of 501?  Maybe get one second lower time?

Sort of like celebrating getting a touchdown when you are 35 points down.  You got a lot more work to do.

Now, I WILL check behind me and try to hold anyone off if they are doing that to me.  I'm not going to give a way spots, but going all out to beat the 12yr old, or 50 yr old women, or even someone in my AG when I'm clearly out of the podium spots or rolldown spots for IM is not for me.  I take joy in improving my time and racing the clock, not outkicking someone for 600th place.

 

My post beat your post down the chute Wink

2012-10-23 11:16 AM
in reply to: #4465290

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Subject: RE: Etiquette Question
Kido - 2012-10-23 10:58 AM

I'm not going to give a way spots, but going all out to beat the 12yr old, or 50 yr old women, or even someone in my AG when I'm clearly out of the podium spots or rolldown spots for IM is not for me.  I take joy in improving my time and racing the clock, not outkicking someone for 600th place.

 

What if out-kicking the 50-year-old woman means a PR for you?

Are you willing to give that up because of her AGE? Because someone is X percent older or younger than you? So confused why people keep bringing age up.

2012-10-23 11:39 AM
in reply to: #4465339

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Subject: RE: Etiquette Question
lisac957 - 2012-10-23 11:16 AM
Kido - 2012-10-23 10:58 AM

I'm not going to give a way spots, but going all out to beat the 12yr old, or 50 yr old women, or even someone in my AG when I'm clearly out of the podium spots or rolldown spots for IM is not for me.  I take joy in improving my time and racing the clock, not outkicking someone for 600th place.

 

What if out-kicking the 50-year-old woman means a PR for you?

Are you willing to give that up because of her AGE? Because someone is X percent older or younger than you? So confused why people keep bringing age up.

What if you get the age wrong (or gender)? I don't see the problem if you don't do something like run into/over, or cut someone off.

2012-10-23 12:36 PM
in reply to: #4461905

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Subject: RE: Etiquette Question

One of the coolest things at short course racing is when two people - doesn't matter if they are the same age or gender - realize they have someone to race down the chute, and they both go ball$ out.  I'll do it.  Someone else should do it to me. 

Last year a did the Desert Tri with a bunch of my friends.  This is Kevin and Annie, two of my training buds.  I won't say who started first, or who won, but it was a great sprint down the chute!!!

That said, at my one and only IM finish at IMAZ, a girl passed me in the parking lot turning to the finish and someone said "go get her!"   I said "are you kidding???"  But that wasn't to screw up her finish, I wanted the chute and finish all to myself 



2012-10-23 1:00 PM
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Subject: RE: Etiquette Question
Kido - 2012-10-23 11:58 AM

OK, I will go against the grain - sort of.

First of all, nothing was done wrong, it's a race.

I'm only speaking for MYSELF.  I run these races for me.  Against the clock and my previous performances.  And of course I look at my results against the other runners.

But when I'm going down to the finish, I will run as hard as I can at that time for my race.  if there are people in front of me or not.   BUT, if there is some other person in front do I try to push extra hard to beat them out by a step?  Probably not.  I guess I don't get any significant gratification struggling to outstep someone across the finish line when I'm already 1/3 down the pack.  Sprint to be 500th place instead of 501?  Maybe get one second lower time?

Sort of like celebrating getting a touchdown when you are 35 points down.  You got a lot more work to do.

Now, I WILL check behind me and try to hold anyone off if they are doing that to me.  I'm not going to give a way spots, but going all out to beat the 12yr old, or 50 yr old women, or even someone in my AG when I'm clearly out of the podium spots or rolldown spots for IM is not for me.  I take joy in improving my time and racing the clock, not outkicking someone for 600th place.

Right, and that works for you and there's nothing wrong with that.  However, the spectators still have no right to hold it against the guy who DOES want to compete to beat whoever is in the field racing with him regardless of age or gender as this is a competition.  

Who, age 12 or age 50 is really out there to win just because the other guy let him win?

2012-10-23 1:11 PM
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Subject: RE: Etiquette Question
I feel the need to pile on and repeat what others have said: "It's a race!"  Good for you.  I always try to give it all (no matter how much or how little I have left) at the end of the race.  If that means passing people (grandma or junior) I'm doing it.  And if a kid or older racer passes me at the end (and believe me, it happens) then good for them!
2012-10-23 4:06 PM
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Subject: RE: Etiquette Question
Last year at IMFL. Coming down towards the shoot. No one real close in front but someone was like 10 yards behind. I checked and there was no one close behind him so I walked for a bit just to let him pass. I didn't want him to be one of those guys that run pass at the finish and ruin my picture. I worked 13:19 for a great photo and i wasnt going to ruin it. I got a GREAT picture. It so happens that he was in my age group so I place like 161 instead of 160 in my AG. Totally worth it!
2012-10-23 5:34 PM
in reply to: #4465339

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Subject: RE: Etiquette Question
lisac957 - 2012-10-23 9:16 AM
Kido - 2012-10-23 10:58 AM

I'm not going to give a way spots, but going all out to beat the 12yr old, or 50 yr old women, or even someone in my AG when I'm clearly out of the podium spots or rolldown spots for IM is not for me.  I take joy in improving my time and racing the clock, not outkicking someone for 600th place.

 

What if out-kicking the 50-year-old woman means a PR for you?

Are you willing to give that up because of her AGE? Because someone is X percent older or younger than you? So confused why people keep bringing age up.

I don't understand?  How does beating one other person set a PR for me?  It's MY running based on MY time.  If it's a PR it's a PR whether I beat one other person or not.

Age or sex or race or anything of someone else has ZERO impact to me setting a PR.  If I ran a marathon in 4 hrs, it's a PR for me if I'm last or first in the race or somewhere in the middle.

Maybe I don't understand was a PR is.  I thought it was a "personal record" of how fast you ran a race - not if you beat a particular amount of people.

If I'm sprinting to set a PR, if I pass someone, so be it.  If not, so be it.  If someone passes ME, so be it.  I'm running my race and my time.  That's what give me the sense of accompliment.  Not getting beating one other person by a nose to get 601st instead of 600th.



Edited by Kido 2012-10-23 5:48 PM
2012-10-23 5:41 PM
in reply to: #4465593

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Subject: RE: Etiquette Question
noelle1230 - 2012-10-23 11:00 AM
Kido - 2012-10-23 11:58 AM

OK, I will go against the grain - sort of.

First of all, nothing was done wrong, it's a race.

I'm only speaking for MYSELF.  I run these races for me.  Against the clock and my previous performances.  And of course I look at my results against the other runners.

But when I'm going down to the finish, I will run as hard as I can at that time for my race.  if there are people in front of me or not.   BUT, if there is some other person in front do I try to push extra hard to beat them out by a step?  Probably not.  I guess I don't get any significant gratification struggling to outstep someone across the finish line when I'm already 1/3 down the pack.  Sprint to be 500th place instead of 501?  Maybe get one second lower time?

Sort of like celebrating getting a touchdown when you are 35 points down.  You got a lot more work to do.

Now, I WILL check behind me and try to hold anyone off if they are doing that to me.  I'm not going to give a way spots, but going all out to beat the 12yr old, or 50 yr old women, or even someone in my AG when I'm clearly out of the podium spots or rolldown spots for IM is not for me.  I take joy in improving my time and racing the clock, not outkicking someone for 600th place.

Right, and that works for you and there's nothing wrong with that.  However, the spectators still have no right to hold it against the guy who DOES want to compete to beat whoever is in the field racing with him regardless of age or gender as this is a competition.  

Who, age 12 or age 50 is really out there to win just because the other guy let him win?

Technically, the spectoators have the "right" to think/feel anyway they want.  We have that luxury in the US.  Is it unfair or misplaced?  Sure...  But they have the "right" to feel that way.

I'm curious if the spectators were really holding it against the OP or it was something his own concious was projecting.

I can't imagine spectators holding it against athletes if they race to the finish, at least enough to be vocal about it or do something in protest.  If they did, I think it may have been a little more than sprinting to the end.



2012-10-23 5:43 PM
in reply to: #4466152

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Subject: RE: Etiquette Question
Kido - 2012-10-23 6:34 PM
lisac957 - 2012-10-23 9:16 AM
Kido - 2012-10-23 10:58 AM

I'm not going to give a way spots, but going all out to beat the 12yr old, or 50 yr old women, or even someone in my AG when I'm clearly out of the podium spots or rolldown spots for IM is not for me.  I take joy in improving my time and racing the clock, not outkicking someone for 600th place.

 

What if out-kicking the 50-year-old woman means a PR for you?

Are you willing to give that up because of her AGE? Because someone is X percent older or younger than you? So confused why people keep bringing age up.

I don't understand?  How does beating one other person set a PR for me?  It's MY running based on MY time.  If it's a PR it's a PR whether I beat one other person or not.

Age or sex or race or anything of someone else has ZERO impact to me setting a PR.  If I ran a marathon in 4 hrs, it's a PR for me if I'm last or first in the race or somewhere in the middle.

Maybe I don't understand was a PR is.  I thought it was a "personal record" of how fast you ran a race - not if you beat a particular amount of people.

 

I may be off, but I just took her statement to say that what if you kicking it in at that point to pass that person lowered your time enough to help you get to a PR.  Not that the mere fact of passing person 'x' would be the PR.

 

Cue Roseanne Roseannadanna and "Nevermind"?  Laughing

2012-10-23 5:55 PM
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Subject: RE: Etiquette Question
cgregg - 2012-10-23 3:43 PM
Kido - 2012-10-23 6:34 PM
lisac957 - 2012-10-23 9:16 AM
Kido - 2012-10-23 10:58 AM

I'm not going to give a way spots, but going all out to beat the 12yr old, or 50 yr old women, or even someone in my AG when I'm clearly out of the podium spots or rolldown spots for IM is not for me.  I take joy in improving my time and racing the clock, not outkicking someone for 600th place.

 

What if out-kicking the 50-year-old woman means a PR for you?

Are you willing to give that up because of her AGE? Because someone is X percent older or younger than you? So confused why people keep bringing age up.

I don't understand?  How does beating one other person set a PR for me?  It's MY running based on MY time.  If it's a PR it's a PR whether I beat one other person or not.

Age or sex or race or anything of someone else has ZERO impact to me setting a PR.  If I ran a marathon in 4 hrs, it's a PR for me if I'm last or first in the race or somewhere in the middle.

Maybe I don't understand was a PR is.  I thought it was a "personal record" of how fast you ran a race - not if you beat a particular amount of people.

 

I may be off, but I just took her statement to say that what if you kicking it in at that point to pass that person lowered your time enough to help you get to a PR.  Not that the mere fact of passing person 'x' would be the PR.

 

Cue Roseanne Roseannadanna and "Nevermind"?  Laughing

But then it would be an odd question because I never said I would hold back in my post.  I'm running as hard as I can for me and my time.  Not to nudge out one more person.

Whatever works for people.  If someone needs another person to be the carrot to finish hard...  Cool.  I can personally finish hard with a kick based on my own personal motivation.  What if that person wasn't there?  In IM, you get spread out so you usually finish pretty alone anyway, so you need to find your own drive to finish strong.

OTOH, for an IM, I will just walk the finish chute to soak it in and celebrate 12-13 hours on the course and the conclusioin of a long day.  Not to concerned about my finish place at that point.

2012-10-23 6:53 PM
in reply to: #4466165

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Subject: RE: Etiquette Question
Kido - 2012-10-23 6:41 PM
noelle1230 - 2012-10-23 11:00 AM
Kido - 2012-10-23 11:58 AM

OK, I will go against the grain - sort of.

First of all, nothing was done wrong, it's a race.

I'm only speaking for MYSELF.  I run these races for me.  Against the clock and my previous performances.  And of course I look at my results against the other runners.

But when I'm going down to the finish, I will run as hard as I can at that time for my race.  if there are people in front of me or not.   BUT, if there is some other person in front do I try to push extra hard to beat them out by a step?  Probably not.  I guess I don't get any significant gratification struggling to outstep someone across the finish line when I'm already 1/3 down the pack.  Sprint to be 500th place instead of 501?  Maybe get one second lower time?

Sort of like celebrating getting a touchdown when you are 35 points down.  You got a lot more work to do.

Now, I WILL check behind me and try to hold anyone off if they are doing that to me.  I'm not going to give a way spots, but going all out to beat the 12yr old, or 50 yr old women, or even someone in my AG when I'm clearly out of the podium spots or rolldown spots for IM is not for me.  I take joy in improving my time and racing the clock, not outkicking someone for 600th place.

Right, and that works for you and there's nothing wrong with that.  However, the spectators still have no right to hold it against the guy who DOES want to compete to beat whoever is in the field racing with him regardless of age or gender as this is a competition.  

Who, age 12 or age 50 is really out there to win just because the other guy let him win?

Technically, the spectoators have the "right" to think/feel anyway they want.  We have that luxury in the US.  Is it unfair or misplaced?  Sure...  But they have the "right" to feel that way.

I'm curious if the spectators were really holding it against the OP or it was something his own concious was projecting.

I can't imagine spectators holding it against athletes if they race to the finish, at least enough to be vocal about it or do something in protest.  If they did, I think it may have been a little more than sprinting to the end.

I hear you, I guess I meant to say that I don't think it's fair they judge someone for racing at a race.

But interesting point....was anyone really judging the OP or he is judging himself?

Point being, we all have our own goals.  Some involve rating our performance in relation to everyone else and as you said earlier, some are strictly for ourselves and are not concerned with the how the other guy performs.  I say to each their own.

2012-10-23 8:44 PM
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Subject: RE: Etiquette Question
Its a race, race hard to the finish. 
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