General Discussion Triathlon Talk » $2000 bike + power versus $3000 bike no power Rss Feed  
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2012-11-08 12:48 PM

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Veteran
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Dallas
Subject: $2000 bike + power versus $3000 bike no power

Hi.

Entering my second season and I have been using a road bike. Plan on two HIM in 2013 including windy Galveston. I would like to do some of my longer rides on a trainer in the house on the tri bike and weekend group rides on the roadie.

I am looking at a Kinetic trainer and I have a Garmin 910XT.

So, what would you do with $3000? Power with cheaper ride or $3000 bike? Basically $3000 is ASAMWWA.

ASAMWWA=as much as my wife would allowSurprised

Thx



2012-11-08 12:56 PM
in reply to: #4490008

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Subject: RE: $2000 bike + power versus $3000 bike no power

Would you know, or be willing to learn, how to effectively utilize a power meter?  I don't and I'm not, so I think that thing would be pretty useless to me.

 

 

2012-11-08 12:59 PM
in reply to: #4490008

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Elite
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Subject: RE: $2000 bike + power versus $3000 bike no power

Look into a power solution that can be easily swapped between bikes, perhaps?  Something like those new crank arms that came out this year - I think they are in the ballpark of $600?

Then get whatever sort of TT bike that you can afford after that.

2012-11-08 1:27 PM
in reply to: #4490033

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Expert
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Wilmington, NC
Subject: RE: $2000 bike + power versus $3000 bike no power
cgregg - 2012-11-08 1:59 PM

Look into a power solution that can be easily swapped between bikes, perhaps?  Something like those new crank arms that came out this year - I think they are in the ballpark of $600?

Then get whatever sort of TT bike that you can afford after that.

Stageone has not been released yet.

To the OP. You can find some pretty good used $3000+ bikes for $2000 and get power.

2012-11-08 1:29 PM
in reply to: #4490024

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2012-11-08 1:51 PM
in reply to: #4490024

Subject: RE: $2000 bike + power versus $3000 bike no power
Goosedog - 2012-11-08 8:56 AM

Would you know, or be willing to learn, how to effectively utilize a power meter?  I don't and I'm not, so I think that thing would be pretty useless to me. 

x2 on this advice.

I'm on the opposite side of the spectrum though.   I have learned about power, and love to use it during training...especially for intervals.  So it is extremely valuable to *me*.

I would suggest doing some research on power, and probably picking up one of the two books on power by either Coggan and Allen, or Skiba.  Those books will give you and idea about what training with power is like and what is required of you to use it effectively.

As for spending $3k...if you decide to go with power.  This is how *I* would do it.  Get a professional fitting and find a tri bike in the 1200-1500 range.  Could be used, or maybe a new aluminum bike like the Felt S32, Trek 2.5, or maybe overstock of the Cervelo P1. That might put you in the $1500-1800 range.  Get an aero helmet...$100.  Buy a used wireless powertap and a disc cover for it...$600.  Get a used deep front wheel or a new FLO front wheel ($450).  That will put you in the $2700-$3000 range.  ETA: Don't forget to save another $100 or so for some racing tires and latex tubes. 

You've already got the 910xt, so your good to go as far as a power meter computer.

And before anyone rambles off that BS about "I would rather train to get faster"...make sure you do all these purchases during non training hours...so you can still train AND spend your extra money on other things to improve your speed.



Edited by tri808 2012-11-08 1:55 PM


2012-11-08 1:56 PM
in reply to: #4490024

Sensei
Sin City
Subject: RE: $2000 bike + power versus $3000 bike no power
Goosedog - 2012-11-08 10:56 AM

Would you know, or be willing to learn, how to effectively utilize a power meter?  I don't and I'm not, so I think that thing would be pretty useless to me.

 

 

I'll 3rd this...  or 4th - wherever we are at.

For most people, just getting out there and putting your time in does a tremendous amount for your fitness.  Granted, it would be NICE to train with power from the beginning, but I think you can make a lot of gains without it, then use it later to take it to the next level.

2012-11-08 2:13 PM
in reply to: #4490008

Veteran
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Dallas
Subject: RE: $2000 bike + power versus $3000 bike no power

All very good suggestions. I love this forum!

I am nervous about a used bike (I have cracked one carbon frame) and I am not opposed to aluminum (6'2.5'', 205 lbs). Agree with the fit first.

I have used power during spin classes and HR during long rides. If I could learn to use it appropriately I think it would be nice for my HIM and when I do Kona on my lottery slot (sarcasm font).

Maybe starting with a $2000 ride first and then add components with time.

2012-11-08 2:15 PM
in reply to: #4490112

Not a Coach
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Subject: RE: $2000 bike + power versus $3000 bike no power

FoggyGoggles - 2012-11-08 2:29 PM

cadence trumps power

What!?!?

2012-11-08 2:18 PM
in reply to: #4490008

Member
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NC
Subject: RE: $2000 bike + power versus $3000 bike no power

Have you looked into trainerroad.com?  You won't have power outside, but you can have virtual power on the trainer and suffer appropriately.  If you're doing typical group rides (at least like mine) outside, you won't be hitting predetermined power intervals anyway. 

 

2012-11-08 2:19 PM
in reply to: #4490228

Subject: RE: $2000 bike + power versus $3000 bike no power
JohnnyKay - 2012-11-08 10:15 AM

FoggyGoggles - 2012-11-08 2:29 PM

cadence trumps power

What!?!?

I was going to take the bait on that...but I really didn't know how to formulate a response to such an odd statement.  I think you did that nicely. 



2012-11-08 2:21 PM
in reply to: #4490234

Subject: RE: $2000 bike + power versus $3000 bike no power
Goosedog - 2012-11-08 10:18 AM

Have you looked into trainerroad.com?  You won't have power outside, but you can have virtual power on the trainer and suffer appropriately.  If you're doing typical group rides (at least like mine) outside, you won't be hitting predetermined power intervals anyway. 

 

Goose is on a roll...x2...using indoor power like trainerroad is a great way to get introduced to power at a very low cost. 

2012-11-08 2:34 PM
in reply to: #4490237

Melon Presser
52116
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Subject: RE: $2000 bike + power versus $3000 bike no power
tri808 - 2012-11-09 3:19 AM
JohnnyKay - 2012-11-08 10:15 AM

FoggyGoggles - 2012-11-08 2:29 PM

cadence trumps power

What!?!?

I was going to take the bait on that...but I really didn't know how to formulate a response to such an odd statement.  I think you did that nicely. 

Be nice. The man is sleep-deprived with a newborn.

2012-11-08 2:36 PM
in reply to: #4490178

Melon Presser
52116
50005000500050005000500050005000500050002000100
Subject: RE: $2000 bike + power versus $3000 bike no power
tri808 - 2012-11-09 2:51 AM
Goosedog - 2012-11-08 8:56 AM

Would you know, or be willing to learn, how to effectively utilize a power meter?  I don't and I'm not, so I think that thing would be pretty useless to me. 

x2 on this advice.

I'm on the opposite side of the spectrum though.   I have learned about power, and love to use it during training...especially for intervals.  So it is extremely valuable to *me*.

I would suggest doing some research on power, and probably picking up one of the two books on power by either Coggan and Allen, or Skiba.  Those books will give you and idea about what training with power is like and what is required of you to use it effectively.

As for spending $3k...if you decide to go with power.  This is how *I* would do it.  Get a professional fitting and find a tri bike in the 1200-1500 range.  Could be used, or maybe a new aluminum bike like the Felt S32, Trek 2.5, or maybe overstock of the Cervelo P1. That might put you in the $1500-1800 range.  Get an aero helmet...$100.  Buy a used wireless powertap and a disc cover for it...$600.  Get a used deep front wheel or a new FLO front wheel ($450).  That will put you in the $2700-$3000 range.  ETA: Don't forget to save another $100 or so for some racing tires and latex tubes. 

You've already got the 910xt, so your good to go as far as a power meter computer.

And before anyone rambles off that BS about "I would rather train to get faster"...make sure you do all these purchases during non training hours...so you can still train AND spend your extra money on other things to improve your speed.

This. Right here. And you already agreed on the pro fitting part, so that should zero you into a very decent bike, and the trainerroad idea is a great one too.

2012-11-08 3:35 PM
in reply to: #4490234

Veteran
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Tampa
Subject: RE: $2000 bike + power versus $3000 bike no power
Goosedog - 2012-11-08 3:18 PM

Have you looked into trainerroad.com?  You won't have power outside, but you can have virtual power on the trainer and suffer appropriately.  If you're doing typical group rides (at least like mine) outside, you won't be hitting predetermined power intervals anyway. 

 

^this. I use Virtual Power on TrainerRoad together with Sufferfest workouts and it is great. I don't have power outside, but that's no biggie for me.

2012-11-08 3:59 PM
in reply to: #4490008


13

Subject: RE: $2000 bike + power versus $3000 bike no power
Power is not difficult to understand. Understanding that your not as powerful as you thought takes some getting used to. Darn thing doesn't lie. Great investment. I wouldn't be as concerned with a used tt bike as a road bike.  FTP from 230 to 270 in a year. Helped my wife realize she was way more powerful in a higher rpm range and that she was going up hills way too hard in long races. Just my two cents.


2012-11-08 4:17 PM
in reply to: #4490178

Master
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Guilford, CT
Subject: RE: $2000 bike + power versus $3000 bike no power

Everything Jason said is exactly what I would do in your situation.  He has laid it out for you nicely.  That will result in the best bang for your buck.

2012-11-08 4:25 PM
in reply to: #4490112

Extreme Veteran
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Issaquah
Subject: RE: $2000 bike + power versus $3000 bike no power
FoggyGoggles - 2012-11-08 11:29 AM

This is the best advice that I'd give as well. I've asked a few coaches who teach power as part of their training (if you have it available.) The two largest conclusions that I took from their answers were: cadence trumps power and power is a good feedback tool, but not a necessity to get better.

I think this is more accurate.

2012-11-08 4:30 PM
in reply to: #4490008

Member
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Lansing, Michigan
Subject: RE: $2000 bike + power versus $3000 bike no power

Racing with power has paid off very well for me.  I went the $1800 bike route and the powermeter, and it was the best thing I did.  I bought the PM used either here or on ST, and it came with a Wheelbuilder disk cover.  I paired it to a Garmin 910, and I am VERY happy with this setup.

Understanding power for racing purposes I didn't think was really tough.  Similiar to using heart rate, you do some testing to figure out your top limits, establish some training bands based off of that, then use those bands to make sure every workout is a good one.  Having used both HR and power, I find power on the bike works much better than HR.  Finally, when it comes time to race, the PM is pure gold.  Use it to keep your biking within reason, and make sure you don't "burn too many matches". 

I used it this year for my first ever HIM, and I know without the PM, I would have hammered on the bike and paid for it on the run.  Instead, I knew what my threshold was and used the criteria of 70-80% of threshold for a HIM, and that is what I executed.  At the beginning, the bike really seemed too easy and I was tempted to hammer.  Instead, I just kept an eye on those power numbers, and rolled into T2 with good legs.  I was able to run the entire time, right up through the finish, when my legs said "Enough!" and gave up.  YES, the perfect race :-).

Don't forget all the "extras" you will need when you buy that bike.  A good fit is a must, IMHO.  It is worth every penny, especially if this is your first tri bike.  I initially had a poor fit, and I was driving myself crazy being miserable on the bike, plus worrying that I had wasted my money on something that wasn't going to work.  Three hours at Fraser Bike, a new saddle (didn't see that one coming) and I was a new man on a "new" bike!  Wow, what a difference.  You will also need to think about H2O arrangements, bento box maybe, and of course a pointy helmet :-p  Pedal, and shoes too.  Take it from a fellow married guy, it was way too easy and quick to hit that $3k budget!

Good luck!

2012-11-08 5:00 PM
in reply to: #4490008

Pro
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Subject: RE: $2000 bike + power versus $3000 bike no power

OK- unlike a lot of posts here- you gave us some insight into how you would be riding and using your bike.  Yay!


Get a $3K bike on sale for $2300, and then find a gently used wireless powertap in a rear wheel for $600.  Spend the extra $100 on a wheelbuilder wheel cover for race day.  Throw the PT wheel on your road bike to collect your TSS for your group rides.

the KK road machine is the perfect trainer to use for the aforementioned TrainerRoad.com. Get a Garmin GSC10 speed/cadence sensor ($38) and you will have power training for your trainer workouts. 

you could forgo the powertap for now and just use TrainerRoad.com.  That will give you a start on power training, which is great to get familiar with it, but if you only do some of your rides with power- you'll be missing some of the really good stuff- like the performance manager that tracks your short term and long term stress.

So- OK- ditch the powertap for now and just use TrainerRoad.  Next year you'll want to add a nice set of race wheels to your bike- and it might as well have a powertap built into it.

2012-11-08 11:02 PM
in reply to: #4490281

Master
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Subject: RE: $2000 bike + power versus $3000 bike no power
TriAya - 2012-11-08 2:34 PM
tri808 - 2012-11-09 3:19 AM
JohnnyKay - 2012-11-08 10:15 AM

FoggyGoggles - 2012-11-08 2:29 PM

cadence trumps power

What!?!?

I was going to take the bait on that...but I really didn't know how to formulate a response to such an odd statement.  I think you did that nicely. 

Be nice. The man is sleep-deprived with a newborn.

When he gets lucid he should watch Bert Grapsch do a TT.  It is a bit of a revelation if you watch his speed and cadence.

If I can throw my two cents in I vote PT.  By far the best toy I've bought in this sport.



Edited by sand101 2012-11-08 11:04 PM


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