T1...Shoes Already Attached? (Page 2)

Experts in every type of race have crashes.......it's racing.  What is over-rated is the idea that doing these types of mounts cause huge problems and bad injuries.  They don't. 

From my observations this saves more time for men than women...  Just based on ability to run in bike shoes.  I think wearing high heels prepares you better for running in bike shoes.  I'm always amazed at the guys that look like they are walking on hot coals in their bike shoes.  I'd like to think my college years helped me with this- being tipsy in heals on cobblestones really gave me some skills that I can leverage.  I don't do it and have pretty quick transition times.  I think visualizing and planning your transition will gain you more if you're not already doing that. 

(Then again I hate the log jam at the mount line of the people who do this and execute poorly.  Always go as far away as possible from the barefoot people at the mount line.)

Couldn't there be saving in how fast you can run with you bike barefoot vs cycling shoes. distance of the the run from you T1 area to the mounting area would be a variable.

Personally, I had my shoes attached for almost all of my races in 2012 (mostly Sprint distance) but in the end felt there was no significant time advantage.

The time lost putting the shoes on in T1 vs the time I spent fumbling with the straps while on the bike was likely a wash. 

Maybe I saved a few seconds with the shoes preclipped as at least I was moving forward, but there were a few tense moments that could have ended badly.

Simon Whitfield's crash in the Olympics made me rethink this approach.

I have seen others who can do it flawlessly but its not worth the risk in my opinion.

Do I just race with people who don't know how to do it?

I don't leave my shoes on my bike and I pass those who do.

I wear my shoes out of T1.  I hop on the bike and I am clipped in within 2-3 pedal strokes.  That means that I am completely ready to ride about 20' and 4 seconds from the mount line.  

I always pass people about 400m from the mount line who are slowing their pace and fidgeting with getting their feet in their shoes or adjusting their straps.  They are 1/4 mile into the ride and still getting settled in.

Of course it takes a few seconds to put my shoes on in transition but I don't see any time deficiency in doing so.

I do pull my feet out and leave them on top when approaching T2 and run barefoot into transition...

It just seems like everybody I pass in the first 1/4 mile are people working on getting into their shoes.  I guess I just don't see the benefit.

edited to add:  I do use SPD pedals that can mount from either side so that may change mountability.

You don't pass all of them.

Well...when I leave transition with somebody who does it...they pass me initially...and then I pass them.  It is probably important to note that at any time during that race, it is pretty much guaranteed that they WILL pass me again because I am not fast.  I don't claim to be a better cyclist than anybody...but I find clipping in more beneficial *for me*

Here is my video from a sprint I did:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRY2xvJS1TU

Pause at 0:17, and there are 2 riders (blue jersey on right and black/white/blue crossing in the center)who do the "feet on the shoes method".  unfortunately I didn't put everything in the final video, but I end up passing them 0:35 seconds into the video.

....needless to say, they both passed me as they are faster and I stopped for 2 minutes to throw up in a ditch.  --No more creatine-containing supplements for me  :D

As said before....easier to put them on in transition, but faster to leave them on.     It all depends on your perspective.   It's much easier to practice for 30 minutes on pick up 30 seconds on the transition than it is to run 10s/mile faster on the run though.....free speed.

Brother, trust me on this, we are talking about two completely different kinds of racers.

When I was getting T1 set up in my first ever sprint, I clipped my shoes in, tied them real pretty with rubber bands, and then noticed as I was racking the bike, the shoes were on the wrong side!

I didn't say you were wrong, I  don't care how you race.  My point in this thread, and you were on the other side, is that keeping your shoes clipped in and a flying mount is faster through transition 1 when done properly....it just is.  The people in your example don't have a clue what they are doing.

If you're not comfortable with the "flying mount", you can still pre-clip your shoes in and jump on the bike at the start line, as you normally would with shoes on.  In other words, you're not running with the bike when you get on.  You just stop for a brief moment, swing your leg over, and slide your foot into the forward shoe, then push off with your other foot and slide that foot into the other shoe once you are moving.  It's different from a flying mount in that you aren't moving when you swing your leg over and jump on the saddle.  I do this now and it seems to work fine.  Just make sure you don't do this right in the middle of the road and block other riders.  I stay to the side and out of others' way.  It's not as risky as the flying mount and yet I don't have to run through transition with my speedplay cleats on, risking premature wear on the cleats if it's a concrete transition or getting debris jammed in there if it's a grassy transition area.  Oh, and I do use tri-clips to keep the pedals in the correct position, making it easier to find that first shoe when I swing my leg over the saddle.

I think the OP said they had SPDs. If you have the type of shoe that the clip doesn't protrude underneath, I don't see that you are losing much time in T1.

Running in Looks or other shoes that have a protruding clip is slow.

Having the shoes clipped into the pedals means that even without a flying mount, you are moving when you put your shoes on. This should save time if you practice. 

I think part of the problem that people run into is that not everyone is mounting the same way.  Lisa made the point about flying mounts not being allowed at some WTC events.....and my guess is that it just minimizes the chance of crashes at the start.  When some folks are standing still as they mount their bikes and others are running, it can get stupid if there are enough people hitting the mount line together.

I watch alot of ITU races where everyone is running and mounting......T1 is smoking fast when you get a group of people who are really proficient and you'll lose time you can't afford if you stop anywhere.

This is the only reason I am considering trying this method this season.  Last year I used SPD pedals and mountain bike shoes.  It's pretty easy to run in MTB shoes in T1 and T2 plus mine had three straps with one being the ratchet style.  I recently purchased road pedals and tri bike shoes.  They are difficult to walk in so I will be practicing this in hopes of using this season - especially in races with long transition runs.

The shorter the race, the bigger the percentage of time you save by having them attached.  The actual time saved is pretty much going to be the same regardless of the race, but the shorter the race, the bigger impact.

It's not so much the running in the shoes that's the benefit, it's the time it takes put them on, secure them, and then get them clipped in.  Because you can do all that stuff while riding.  

I attach them in sprints and olympics, anything longer and I put them on in transition.  (this is assuming you're not wearing socks for those distances). I wouldn't run in socks, that early in the morning, they're likely to get wet running on grass.

Thanks for all the replies, everyone! Very helpful.

A lot of mixed decisions from all you guys, but it seems most prefer the flying mount.  One thing everyone agreed on: practice.

I've decided to just practice the flying mount, and if it goes well (after much practice, of course), I'll use it in a race.  If not and I just can't get it down, I will do what jsnowash suggested, as I know I can do that.

I really do appreciate the responses from everyone and happy I decided to join the site. Thank you.