Best equipment to gain speed on bike? (Page 4)

Actually... in that case you'd only be manipulating space/time in a way that would make it appear to an outside observer that you were going faster.  When in actuality you'd still be going the same speed in your own frame of reference.

But since you'd be getting to the finish line sooner, I'd say in that case you'd definitely be going less slow.

bradleyd3 - 2013-02-12 9:01 AM

the bear - 2013-02-12 11:54 AM

[email protected] - 2013-02-12 11:52 AM So, what the best way to go faster?

By "slowing down less." Duh!

And you slow down less by........wait for it......building bike strength.

Haven't you been keeping up with the thread.  You go faster by building bike strength.  You slow down less by decreasing resistance.

This isn't my opinion...it's physics.

I'm back  :P

So I do have a physics/engineering way of approaching things which in many cases just confuses the tar out of situations.  I probably should have kept my mouth shut.

I guess ultimately the confusion comes from the difference between these statements:

8-3 and 8+(-3).

People feel the second of those statements is more confusing than the first...but that is the statement that is being made:  "I am Increasing my speed (going faster) by lessening resistance" vs the first statement that says "I am lessening my resistance".  

So here is how I look at it.  This is going to go a bit more backwards (or "less forwards") to explain the way I am looking at it.  There are 2 things I need to explain, first:

1)  Humans have  a Maximum speed potential.   This explains the reason why every time we run a 5k, we can't get shorter times each and every time.  We can increase that maximum speed potential, but it is at a logarithmic rate. At some point our times will come invariably close to no more improvement. That is why there is no 7 minute 5k times and we are not able to run at 65 mph. Because at some point, our bodies get close to their speed capability and it takes exponential more work to get logarithmic results.  

This Constant is what I use as a reference to speed improvement.  I am not "Getting faster" unless it is above my potential, consistent and it is from my body and not my equipment.  Anything else, then I am only "getting closer" to my maximum potential.

In an "Ideal" system, we should all be at our maximum speed potential.  Unfortunately we are in a "real" system.

2) Most people have never reached their maximum speed potential.  The reason is that we are in a "real" system, in which there are many extraneous forms of resistance:  

• Emotion resistance
• Biological process resistance
• Environmental resistance

These 3 things prevent most of us from reaching our maximum speed potential.  We don't live in a vacuum, so therefore these resistances are all around us.  These resistances Slow us Down and work against us from reaching our maximum speed potential.

So the whole "Slow Down Less" thing:

Imagine a line graph.  -10 is at one end, 0 is in the middle, 10 as at the other end. Any positive number is our maximum muscle potential.  Any number less than that is the function of your power-resistance.  Any numbers greater than that are additive to our maximum muscle potential.  It is much easier to drop down into the negatives by adding resistance than to go positive by adding potential.

The only thing that truly builds our ability to reach our maximum speed potential is our muscles.  

• We can assist our muscles by lessening our emotional resistance with sleep, relax, etc.
• We can assist our muscles by lessening our biological resistance with nutrition, good diet, etc.
• We can assist our muscles by lessening our environmental resistance with gear, form, protection, etc.

The bike is a mechanical system that lives by mechanical rules.

The following elements that stand out:  Applied Power and resistance.  Power is how much force is being applied (in this case to create a forward motion).  Resistance is the force being applied to prevent that forward motion (wind).  

With very little resistance, you could use the applied force to come very close to your maximum speed potential.  As resistance increases, your speed drops.  If you decrease resistance, the "less resistance" or "less slow" you travel.  

Resistance is inversely proportional to power in this system.  

It is known that on the bike, a great deal of power generated is used just to overcome resistance (Wind, road inconsistencies, ramps, mechanical inconsistencies).  If a person is putting out their maximum potential power and the resistance increases, this causes them to slow down from their maximum potential.  If they are putting out their maximum potential power and the resistance decreases, they get closer to their maximum potential power.  

-I feel that "speeding up" on a bicycle isn't accurate because there are too many variables at play to say whether you are going faster or not.  Sure, your speedometer may say you are getting faster on that ride, but there are many things that could change that.  Ultimately, to me, "Getting faster" implies an improvement in muscle capabilities and an overall improvement in speed and time because of my muscles.  Slowing down less means minimizing resistance.

I think most knowledgeable cyclists would tell you that speed is not an accurate way to tell your bike fitness.  19mph one day can easily be 17 or 20 the next because of the resistance variables listed above.  More than likely, resistance was just subtracted in one form or another. Are you sure you didn't just have a tailwind?  Did tire inflation change? Did you buy a new bike? Were you in a better mood?

The knowledgeable cyclist would tell you that the most accurate way to tell your bike fitness is with Power measurements.  The goal of a good cyclist is about improving their power output (going faster).  This happens slowly with a lot of bike work.

So I feel that that anything that involves lessening resistance (gear, bike fitting) is not truly helping a person "go faster", but rather just helping them minimize resistance (slowing down less).  To "go faster" is to improve your body's capable speed.

I guess I could be wrong, but it works for me in my head.  I know that I put out a measly 176Watts over an hour.  I don't have a power meter, but I know what my speed should be when the wind is blowing at me x amount, or blowing with me x amount.  It keeps me busy on my rides.  I'm wierd like that.

This thread does not disappoint!!!!  I won't comment about most of what you wrote, but:

No.  The goal of a good cyclist is GOING FASTER--getting to the finish line in less time.  This is achieved by improving power output AND/OR reducing resistance to forward motion on the bike.  Because BOTH can make you faster.  Nobody gets prizes for "speed potential". 

As I said earlier, you have decided to impose your own special definitions of "speed" and "faster".  If it works for you in your head, fine.  But telling us we're wrong because it's "physics" is nonsense.

Read my first post.  I said it VERY CLEARLY AND IT WAS EVEN QUOTED AGAIN , "BOTH ARE EQUALLY IMPORTANT".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Vw2CrY9Igs

You certainly have a knack for needlessly complicating the obvious.

A semi tractor-trailer probably has 50+ Horsepower.  Similar to that of say- a V-10 Ferrari engine.  If you had to pick one to race around a track, which would it be? 

The ferrari. 

Which one would you pick if you could only put a 200 HP engine inside? 

Still the Ferrari.

All the hoopla in the world about athletic potential and diminishing returns doesn't change the fact that the same rider will go faster on a well fitting aerodynamic bike than he will on one that is less aero.  Telling any cyclist that he should forego an obvious advantage and instead "work on the engine" doesn't do him any good and just makes you sound like an elitist douche.

Actually.. you didn't.  I thought you were the same guy who made the comment:

It actually wasn't you.  My apologies.

Your first post says:  You "Gain Speed" by building muscle.  You "Lessen Resistance" by buying gear. That is an important point.

When I pointed out that lowering resistance increases speed you told me I was wrong and began introducing the concept of "potential power" (since expanded to "potential speed").  And you later introduced "slowing down less" to be different than moving "faster". 

Speed is how fast an object is moving (the magnitude of the velocity of the object, if you like).  If you are going to tell me that I am not moving faster when I reduce my drag while applying some steady power to the bike, then this discussion will continue to go nowhere.

But the real question is will it go nowhere fast?

Potentially.

Probably the thread--unless he finds this as entertaining as some of us.  Hopefully not the website, since he got good advice, quickly back on page 1.

Ok...now I'm confused...

touché

still here, I appreciate the comments as some where helpful. And some gave me a good chuckle 

How well does it compare to your potential chuckle?

That analogy is not exactly right either since we are all jumping on everyone else for every other analogy.

Depends on the engine.  A 90 peak HP inline 4 motorcycle engine will be faster than a 90 peak HP V-twin motorcycle engine.  The V-twin has bigger pistons for the same displacement.  That results in higher tongue, but lower rpm.  It's faster off the line with the higher torque (power to get it going), but has a slower top end speed.

So dropping a 650 hp tractor engine which needs all the power/torque at low speeds to pull/push heavy objects in a indy car will not let the indy car do 220 mph.  Dropping the 650 hp V-8 indy car engine in a tractor and it won't work well either.  Regardless of aerodynamics.

Speed is about stroke length, rpm etc and how the HP is utilized than straight up HP.

So even in cycling, you can generate big power, but if you can't deliver that at a decent (as in fast) cadence, you may be at a disadvantage against a guy who can't produce as much top end power, but can spin like crazy.

The first step to recovery is recognizing the problem! 

This thread is like the jelly of the month club - it just keeps on giving...

I (heart) lifejustice.

Shortie aerobars. They ROCK!!!! And they are nice for long rides.

Eventually though, I'd trade the rodie for an awesomely fitted tri-bike. That's the best tri-investment I made.

(or actually received... for Christmas)