BT Development Mentor Program Archives » Funked Up Triathletes (Sprint, Olympic Focus) Group - Closed Until Next Season Rss Feed  
Moderators: alicefoeller Reply
 
 
of 16
 
 
2013-09-21 1:49 PM
in reply to: johnmoran

User image

Veteran
1127
100010025
Shawnee
Subject: RE: Funked Up Triathletes (Sprint, Olympic Focus) Group - OPEN
Nice job John! You could have gone into the off-season with that one gnawing at you and you took care of it. Good effort.


2013-09-21 5:13 PM
in reply to: johnmoran

User image

Veteran
1016
1000
Deep South, Georgia
Subject: RE: Funked Up Triathletes (Sprint, Olympic Focus) Group - OPEN
Good job. Sounds like a solid season ending effort and something positive to build on for next year.
2013-09-21 6:55 PM
in reply to: 0

User image

New user
115
100
Rhode Island
Subject: RE: Funked Up Triathletes (Sprint, Olympic Focus) Group - OPEN
Originally posted by dprocket

Nice job John! You could have gone into the off-season with that one gnawing at you and you took care of it. Good effort.


thank you.

I read your race report- well done! What was Dave Scott like? I read "Iron War" and overall he sounded kind of D-baggy, sort of like how I imagine Lance Armstrong was (is?).

Edited by johnmoran 2013-09-21 6:56 PM
2013-09-21 6:58 PM
in reply to: Dominion

User image

New user
115
100
Rhode Island
Subject: RE: Funked Up Triathletes (Sprint, Olympic Focus) Group - OPEN
Originally posted by Dominion

Good job. Sounds like a solid season ending effort and something positive to build on for next year.


thanks! I think it was important for me to have a solid effort today no matter where I finished because my previous sprint was a real cluster-f*** and I needed to have a good effort/experience to leave a good "taste" in my mouth for the off-season.
2013-09-21 7:08 PM
in reply to: johnmoran

User image

Veteran
1016
1000
Deep South, Georgia
Subject: RE: Funked Up Triathletes (Sprint, Olympic Focus) Group - OPEN
Originally posted by johnmoran

Originally posted by Dominion

Good job. Sounds like a solid season ending effort and something positive to build on for next year.


thanks! I think it was important for me to have a solid effort today no matter where I finished because my previous sprint was a real cluster-f*** and I needed to have a good effort/experience to leave a good "taste" in my mouth for the off-season.


I understand completely. I'm hoping to do the same in my finale next weekend. I don't care where I finish, I've already accomplished everything I set out to do in this first season. Already excited for off-season training and being stronger next year!
2013-09-21 9:58 PM
in reply to: Dominion

User image

New user
115
100
Rhode Island
Subject: RE: Funked Up Triathletes (Sprint, Olympic Focus) Group - OPEN
Originally posted by Dominion

Originally posted by johnmoran

Originally posted by Dominion

Good job. Sounds like a solid season ending effort and something positive to build on for next year.


thanks! I think it was important for me to have a solid effort today no matter where I finished because my previous sprint was a real cluster-f*** and I needed to have a good effort/experience to leave a good "taste" in my mouth for the off-season.


I understand completely. I'm hoping to do the same in my finale next weekend. I don't care where I finish, I've already accomplished everything I set out to do in this first season. Already excited for off-season training and being stronger next year!


Good luck to you, I hope it goes well!


2013-09-22 12:04 AM
in reply to: johnmoran

User image

Veteran
1127
100010025
Shawnee
Subject: RE: Funked Up Triathletes (Sprint, Olympic Focus) Group - OPEN
Originally posted by johnmoran

Originally posted by dprocket

Nice job John! You could have gone into the off-season with that one gnawing at you and you took care of it. Good effort.


thank you.

I read your race report- well done! What was Dave Scott like? I read "Iron War" and overall he sounded kind of D-baggy, sort of like how I imagine Lance Armstrong was (is?).


Dave was actually very nice, very polite and seemed to have genuine interest in my triathlon "career" and my progress. That said, I also got to listen to him talk the night before at a dinner for Team In Training. He is the teams "national coach" (mouthpiece) and his talk he came off a bit d-baggyish a few times. I can't quite put my finger on it, but it just seemed like a few times he would say things like "my 1st world championship was good, and my 3rd was kind of nice, but really the 5th one was the most meaningful" . Very interesting guy though and fun to talk to.

I too read Iron War and thought it was great. I actually liked Dave's personality more than Mark Allen's, but that's just a preference. I really wanted to ask Dave why both he and Mark Allen have disassociated themselves with the book and tried to sue the author. My wife didn't think that would be a good idea.
2013-09-22 8:46 AM
in reply to: 0

User image

Member
228
10010025
Lenexa, KS
Subject: RE: Funked Up Triathletes (Sprint, Olympic Focus) Group - OPEN
Originally posted by Dominion

Jesse,

Thanks for sharing your spreadsheet. That will help me organize my own plans for next year.

One question, where or how did you come up with the "equivalent run miles" formula. I see how you are calculating it but how did you come up with the formula, for instance 1 mile swim = 4 miles running?




Well my calculations are deeply rooted in scientific research and... ah who am I kidding its complete conjecture. Educated conjecture, but just a guess nonetheless. When I started doing cross training with bike and swim in college we needed a way to calculate the number of run miles I was putting in compared to the other guys since I wasn't doing strictly run training. Its the figures my coach came up with and we discussed at the time how they're not perfect, but the best we could do. The reason its not perfect is that as your fitness increases in swimming or cycling it may not actually still the be equivalent effort to what the conversion we set is. Conversely if you are a terrible swimmer the effort you put out in the pool may be much higher from inefficiency. However, I still use it just as a side analysis tool. I work my schedule out on a basis of a hybridized hours/miles thinking inside my own head.

I actually wrote the 4 months schedule without regards to looking at the percent increases and then added the math in to see how I'd done. The rule of thumb is no more than 10% per week. Post recovery weeks there's a jump, but that's normal as you bump back into the "normal" routine from recovery. You can see though as my weeks progress the percent increase, decreases. I know from my personal history that I'm not able to keep up with a set percent increase every week as I begin to push my limits during base. Personally I think only a few people can do the set percentage a week, especially 10% increases when you get into bigger mileage. The reasoning here is that following that logic your increases become exponential when I tend to believe the body will handle a logarithmic function more appropriately (graphs below).

Additionally I'll be bumping up from what I was doing this last year with 10-12 hour weeks (I believe now looking at this training chart) into almost 18 hour weeks or more depending on how my extra swim days add up later into the season. It's not going to be easy to bump up 6-8 hours of training load so I definitely want to make it a gradual change rather than abrupt. This is a long-term game and risk of injury is always there without proper rest.


John

Glad to hear you pushed the pace on your race. It's always nice to crank out the last one of the season. However, if something goes wrong it can always be a vendetta of training for the next year. I.e. my swim at nationals my first year (not this year, but last year) really disappointed me. So I had a pretty strong resolve for a good chunk of time to improve that swim. Its difficult to keep up that fervor all year, but definitely useful in the winter doldroms when you're tubing in a basement and can't get outside to swim.

David

Regarding tubing we just use surgical tubing. I actually bought a pretty long section of tubing intended for scuba diving and tied handles into it. I wear lifting gloves when I use them since it is possible to rub skin raw when using tubing like this, but if you purchase it online the tubing is pretty cheap. If anyone is interested in this method I'll dig up the specific diameter/wall thickness you're looking for since I don't remember off the top of my head. I find the high elbow attachment tubing to be interesting... I'll have to get my new swim coach's thoughts on tubing tomorrow if he's got time to talk about it.

Since I'll be posting some stuff here's a couple videos. The first of Jono Van Hazel who has a freaking beautiful swim stroke. Talk about strength to keep it that smooth. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3HhNlysFDs

And then a related video from the same guys taking a look at one of the top pro triathletes and dissecting some of the minor tweaks he could be doing to make his swim even faster http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ND1L8I2ZY5w

I was watching both of these videos looking for the "diamond" pattern that Taormina was talking about in her tubing video. Definitely there. Now I'll have to see whether I already do that motion in the water or not tomorrow. Its good to be conscious of to add to my tubing workouts since that will definitely translate into the water.

Graphs of the two base progression ideas

Exponential - If you do 10% or any set percent week after week



Logarithmic - A decreasing amount of percent increase week after week, this mimics my training load increases percent wise - mostly




Edited into this last thought here. The graphs I use because of the nature of the level of competition I've reached. I think for smaller absolute mileages 1-2 a week it can easily be feasible to add that in if its 10% of mileage. However, if you're adding in an extra 7 miles a week when you're already running 70; in a matter of 3 weeks you jump from 70 miles to 91 miles and I'm just not sure how long-term that strategy can last.


Edited by funkj25 2013-09-22 9:01 AM
2013-09-22 7:49 PM
in reply to: funkj25

User image

Veteran
1016
1000
Deep South, Georgia
Subject: RE: Funked Up Triathletes (Sprint, Olympic Focus) Group - OPEN
Thanks for the explanation ( and the graphs lol). I wasn't sure if I had somehow missed some universal conversion standard or something.
2013-09-23 9:40 AM
in reply to: Dominion

User image

Veteran
1127
100010025
Shawnee
Subject: RE: Funked Up Triathletes (Sprint, Olympic Focus) Group - OPEN
Curious if anyone else has this. This seems to happen mainly when the weather is cooler (I don't recall this happening during the hot summer months). After my runs, when I stop and sit down (usually hurring to upload my run data before I hop in the shower and head to work) my knees both have pretty serious pain. Almost like needles behind my patella. I have a history of knee injuries (both) and my right was reconstructed in 2011. I wonder if it's arthritic, or maybe I'm just old. It seems to pass within about 20 minutes or so, so it's nothing debilitating, but it's annoying. Any ideas?
2013-09-23 12:13 PM
in reply to: dprocket

User image

Regular
673
5001002525
SF Bay area
Subject: RE: Funked Up Triathletes (Sprint, Olympic Focus) Group - OPEN

OK Jesse, after our PM’s I’m officially asking to join your group.  Better late than never, right?  I’m actually looking at it at getting a jump on the new Mentor season starting in December, so technically I’m early.  Since I’m a newcomer here, a bio is in order.

NAME: Tom Hutches/Ttom, current AG 55-59

STORY: At age 51 I had never been involved with any sort of regular exercise or fitness regime.  For a number of reasons I decided that had to change.  Joined a gym, hired a personal trainer, and started walking every day.  Walking turned into running which made its way to racing.  In my first year of racing I did 3 marathons and 10+ half marathons.  Not the fastest (PR’s 3:42 and 1:44 respectively) but got the job done.  Started developing injuries related to all the miles so decided I needed to add some non-impact aerobic conditioning, biking and swimming.  Didn’t take long for that to morph into my first sprint tri (last summer) and I was hooked.  Honestly, I like the training as much as the race (well, maybe not the swim) so it is a continuous win for me.  Did my first Olympic at Pacific Grove in 2012 and afterwards set my sights on a HIM for 2013.  In July this year did the Vineman 70.3 and loved every bit of it – until the last two miles of the run when it got really tough to maintain my pace.  As I posted in my RR, “I saw recently that if you puke before the finish line, you went too hard, if you puke after the finish line you didn't go hard enough, and if you puke at the finish line, you left it all on the course. Well, I didn't quite puke on the nice volunteer who was removing my timing chip, but as soon as she was done . . .”  I had hoped to finish under 6 hours and ended up with a 5:41, so was really happy.  Then, I had to do Pacific Grove this year to see how I had developed as a Triathlete and PR’d it by 19:41.  There’s a bit of a story that goes with that race if anyone is interested. 

FAMILY STATUS:  Married, 3 kids, one grandchild and another on the way.  Two dogs that own the house.

CURRENT TRAINING:  That’s the question.  This will be my first serious off-season of training so am figuring it out.  For 2013 YTD I’ve done 212,000 yards swim, 2881 miles bike, 569 miles bike.

2013 RACES: Tri For Fun Sprint, Vineman 70.3, Pacific Grove Oly.

2014 PLANNED RACES: Vineman Full, Pacific Grove Oly.  Will find others earlier in the year.

WEIGHTLOSS:  Weight is in the 145-150 range depending, with body fat recently measured at 8%, so don’t really need to lose weight.  I’ve actually seen weight gain over the season due to muscle development, so I’m more focused on keeping body fat under 10% than on weight.

WHAT WILL MAKE ME A GOOD GROUP MEMBER:  I’m not the most experienced but I’m really interested in learning, which means I will likely ask a lot of questions that may benefit the larger group.  I’m connected frequently and so stay current with what is going on in the group.  I really enjoy the training and the physical diversity of the Triathlon lifestyle, so hopefully that will translate into being a supportive member to the group.

 



2013-09-23 2:11 PM
in reply to: TTom

User image

Member
228
10010025
Lenexa, KS
Subject: RE: Funked Up Triathletes (Sprint, Olympic Focus) Group - OPEN
David I get funny little aches and pains every once in a while, mostly sporadically, but I can't say I have ever had that happen. If it was arthritic I would think they would hurt getting going and then as the joints get lubricated you'd be more comfortable not afterwards. I of course am not a doctor however so I could be completely off-base here.

Is this a new development? Aside from starting the 9 week progression towards the half-marathon you're not doing anything new like squats, box jumps, etc. right? Do your knees sound like a creaky door/feel like a creaky door hinge? The creaky hinge thing is a partial way to diagnose tendinitis which is also supposed to be painful. That being said my knees are like that year round and I don't have pain so... *shoulder shrug*

I'll have to think on it to see if anything pops up, but as always see someone if it progresses into something more painful or is habitual.


Tom

Glad to have you join the group. Like you probably read we were discussing hoping picking people for the new season. No worries on being early it doesn't really matter to me when people join as long as I'm still able to adequately respond to everyone's questions and not skip anything. I'll officially "close" the group if we ever hit a person count I don't feel I can handle anymore (probably less than 10).



Like Tom had mentioned we have been PM'ing a while. Mostly a discussion of nutrition related stuff as Tom has gotten hooked on my pancakes and we'll talk recipes from time to time. I had invited him to join us since from my assessment his demeanor and level of fitness works right in with our group.
2013-09-23 7:03 PM
in reply to: TTom

User image

Veteran
1016
1000
Deep South, Georgia
Subject: RE: Funked Up Triathletes (Sprint, Olympic Focus) Group - OPEN
Welcome to the group Tom! Always nice to add another active member.

Those are some pretty solid yearly training totals...wish mine looked like that. My original goal for the year was 250k yards swimming, which apparently I had no idea how much time that involved or where that number even came from. Only going to be about 180k short!! Anyway I have a much better idea on what is realistic now that I have a year under my belt (almost).
2013-09-23 10:08 PM
in reply to: Dominion

User image

Regular
673
5001002525
SF Bay area
Subject: RE: Funked Up Triathletes (Sprint, Olympic Focus) Group - OPEN

Thanks Chris, looking forward to being a part of the group.  I was actually very surprised when I looked at the swim totals and had to make sure that there wasn't an extra zero in there somewhere.  I honestly had no idea I'd swum that much.

So, off-season training.  I've been mulling this over and haven't really made any final decisions.  Thought I'd do sort of a stream of consciousness segment here to get some feedback.  Here goes . . .

I've only got one full season under my belt, and last year at this time I really didn't even know what races I'd be doing this year.  Off-season training was minimal and definitely haphazard.  Next year however, I'm planning on doing my first 140.6 (the Vineman and since it is not a WTC event I can't call it an Ironman?  OK, I'll just use the common IM then!) in addition to a number of Oly and Sprints.  To me, this means base building now to create a really solid foundation for the actual training in prep for racing.  The training plan for the IM will be up to 20 weeks in duration, which leaves about 23 weeks before that starts for the off-season bit. 

Discipline thoughts:

Swim - I did my HIM at a pace of 1:40/100 and if I can do training that will allow me to maintain that speed for the 2.4 mile distance, I think I'll be satisfied.  I've still got a lot to learn about swimming, but really don't think that I can make such a huge improvement that I'll be able to shave a lot of time off of the overall IM time in the water.  So swim will likely be more of a build volume to maintain that pace.  However, I know I do have a stroke imbalance from breathing only on my left side.  I've use a coach for a few sessions and she strongly advocates bilateral breathing to fix this and I simply haven't done it because I found it too hard and didn't want to let my training take the hit.  Now is the time, however, and I'm going to do it.  I learned to swim distance by using an on-line program called "swim a mile in 6 weeks" and had great success with it.  I'm going to take that same plan and use it to become proficient at breathing on my right side.  Thought is to start the workout with the swim-a-mile bit, then when done with that portion, finish the rest of the workout left-side breathing or, if I'm feeling comfortable with it, bilaterally breathing.  This should be interesting . . .

Bike - HIM was at an average speed of 19 mph and took 2:57.  That was on my road bike with clip on aerobars and now I have my early Christmas gift from the family of the Cervelo P2.  I'm thinking that the new bike will pick me up 1-1.5 mph by itself, but remembering the distance is 2x.  It is on the same course as the HIM, so fair to compare.  I'm new to the bike really, so probably have some gains to be made and have become a recent convert to Trainerroad.  I think that the workouts there will help a lot but I have to also get more time in the saddle on the road.  Conservatively I'd like to at least maintain the 19 mph for the IM, but would like to do 20 or better.    This means I need to put a lot of training time on the bike.

Run - HIM was 2:00, so an average pace of 9:11 - but with poor execution.  I went out too fast, knew it at the time but it felt so easy, and ran out of gas on the back half of the course.  I will need to get quite a bit of mileage in the running shoes and figure out a way to control the "off the bike, run fast" habit that I seem to have developed.  I've actually toyed with the idea of walking the first 5 minutes of the run just to get things to settle down, but hate that idea on general racing principle.

Current complications - I'm in recovery mode right now.  1) Just getting over the Shingles which is quite a painful proposition.  I say getting over and mean from the active signs, but everything I read says the neurological pain can continue for up to a year.  It is pain without muscle/joint injury, so I am choosing to use it as a method of learning to deal with and train through pain - something that may come in useful during the IM, no?  2) Bruised heel - stepped hard on a sharp rock just before the start of my Oly 2 weeks ago and bruised the heel badly.  Sports podiatrist says 2-6 weeks before I can run on it.  So until then I'm rekindling my love affair with the elliptical (started with an ITB injury from running) and discovering how much one can really sweat.  Great aerobic value but boring as spit.  3)Also during the Oly managed to dislocate and fracture a finger that requires splinting.  Thus, no biking in the great outdoors, limited to the trainer.  This is OK as I know it is short term and I have only a few more sessions on my Base I Trainerroad plan until I get to do a second FTP test.  I'm anxious to see if I've many any significant improvement since I started these sessions.  But it also keeps me out of the pool as I can't risk smacking my finger on the edge of the pool during a turn.  I'm going to look into some sort of a hardened splint to get around this - if there is such a thing.

So broad thoughts: 

- Next few weeks dedicate to getting hours on the bike with hard trainer sessions and once I can get on the road, longer hilly rides.  Running will be elliptical, so aerobic base building.  Swimming, well we'll just have to see what I can get away with.

- 40 weeks out from the IM, move into the BT 7-10 Hour Winter Maintenance/Prep Training Plan - 20 Week (HERE) but perhaps switch it up a bit to add additional bike focus.

- 20 weeks out from the IM, move into the BT 20-week IM plan.  Won't decide on the Beginner or Intermediate until just before starting and will choose based on fitness/health at that point.  I like the BT plans because I've been able to move the training around to fit my lifestyle and because they automatically add to my training log and even my Outlook calendar so that I can see what is coming up from wherever I am and thus plan accordingly.

I'm not married to any of this at this point, just wanted to get it out there.  Thoughts?

2013-09-24 7:06 AM
in reply to: TTom

User image

New user
115
100
Rhode Island
Subject: RE: Funked Up Triathletes (Sprint, Olympic Focus) Group - OPEN
Welcome to the group Tom!

You mentioned shingles and concern of long term pain- I had shingles exactly one year ago. Horrible pain. No clue what it was at first, felt like my ab and back muscles had been burned with fire from the inside. Crazy pain! The rash took weeks to heal, maybe 5-6 weeks total to go completely away, but after that, no residual anything. No lingering pain, nothing. So I'm a sample size of 1 at least that has had no issues with long term pain.

John
2013-09-24 8:49 AM
in reply to: johnmoran

User image

Veteran
1127
100010025
Shawnee
Subject: RE: Funked Up Triathletes (Sprint, Olympic Focus) Group - OPEN
Welcome aboard Tom! Glad to have you a part of this group! Looking forward to helping one another.


2013-09-24 8:58 AM
in reply to: johnmoran

User image

Regular
673
5001002525
SF Bay area
Subject: RE: Funked Up Triathletes (Sprint, Olympic Focus) Group - OPEN

Hey John, thanks for the welcome.  Yeah, shingles is the real deal.  I've seen the commercials on TV advocating getting the vaccine once you hit 60 years old, you know, the ones where they talk about the searing pain?  Didn't really pay close attention as I wasn't to that age milestone yet, but I think there was some truth in advertising there when it talked about the pain associated with it.  The onset was weird.  It started in my lower back and I swore I had torn a muscle there, but could not figure out what I had done.  Made an appointment to see my doc in the after noon, and between making the call and getting there the rash showed up making the diagnosis a quick one.  All the blisters are gone but still have active pain radiating from my spine all the way around the ribs to the belly button.  I'm planning on a recovery just like yours - thanks for giving my body the instructions it needed!

Note to all - if you have friends or family over 60, have them get the vaccine!

2013-09-24 10:11 AM
in reply to: TTom

User image

New user
115
100
Rhode Island
Subject: RE: Funked Up Triathletes (Sprint, Olympic Focus) Group - OPEN
Originally posted by TTom

Hey John, thanks for the welcome.  Yeah, shingles is the real deal.  I've seen the commercials on TV advocating getting the vaccine once you hit 60 years old, you know, the ones where they talk about the searing pain?  Didn't really pay close attention as I wasn't to that age milestone yet, but I think there was some truth in advertising there when it talked about the pain associated with it.  The onset was weird.  It started in my lower back and I swore I had torn a muscle there, but could not figure out what I had done.  Made an appointment to see my doc in the after noon, and between making the call and getting there the rash showed up making the diagnosis a quick one.  All the blisters are gone but still have active pain radiating from my spine all the way around the ribs to the belly button.  I'm planning on a recovery just like yours - thanks for giving my body the instructions it needed!

Note to all - if you have friends or family over 60, have them get the vaccine!




I concur, get the vaccine! I always thought of shingles as either some third-world disease or something old people got in nursing homes similar to eczema. In my doctor's defense, I led him down the wrong path because I was talking about a recent fall I had taken backpacking where I slipped on a rock and almost did the splits- I thought I had torn some muscle in my back or groin or had a hernia. The weirdest thing about the pain was it felt so unfamiliar. I could categorize all other pain- burned skin, cut skin, broken bone, sore muscles, pulled muscle, GI distress, etc. So my brain is familiar with all different kinds of pain and can put it in the right mental box, but this was like "WTF? I feel like when I look at myself in the mirror I should see charred flesh or a gaping hole, but I see nothing- everything looks normal!" so it was very *confusing* to me and my brain's pain categorization skills more than anything else.
2013-09-25 10:00 PM
in reply to: johnmoran

User image

New user
115
100
Rhode Island
Subject: RE: Funked Up Triathletes (Sprint, Olympic Focus) Group - OPEN
Run question for Jesse-

Have a half marathon on Sunday and am trying to figure out best pacing strategy for it. I figure strategy is strategy, no matter that my pace and your pace are in different universes-- so I figured I'd ask what you think. The course is relatively hilly from mile 2 to mile 6. Nothing crazy at all, like a bunch of 100 foot vertical gains 3-4% grade at most, but hilly nonetheless. Mile 9->finish is pancake flat, even slightly downhill on some parts. If you had a goal pace of X, would you try to maintain X for each and every mile, or would accept going at a slower pace on the hilly miles and then try to make up with a faster pace for the last 1/2?

I'm thinking of biking and the concept of power and you wouldn't want to try to maintain a constant *speed* over hills, but a constant power output and the speed would vary accordingly. But there's no power meter for running and I don't have a good intuition/feel for effort over 13 miles as I have mostly run 5k/10k distances, so I just have my watch to go by.

I don't really care that much about my finish time as I am seriously under trained for this run, so I'm willing to experiment and gain some running knowledge, but I would like to at least have a game plan going into it. Right now my plan is just to set the virtual pacer on my watch to a goal pace (which I haven't even decided on yet) and try to maintain it, hills or no hills, but I thought I would ask your opinion!

thanks
John
2013-09-26 7:06 AM
in reply to: johnmoran

User image

Veteran
1127
100010025
Shawnee
Subject: RE: Funked Up Triathletes (Sprint, Olympic Focus) Group - OPEN
Originally posted by johnmoran

Run question for Jesse-

Have a half marathon on Sunday and am trying to figure out best pacing strategy for it. I figure strategy is strategy, no matter that my pace and your pace are in different universes-- so I figured I'd ask what you think. The course is relatively hilly from mile 2 to mile 6. Nothing crazy at all, like a bunch of 100 foot vertical gains 3-4% grade at most, but hilly nonetheless. Mile 9->finish is pancake flat, even slightly downhill on some parts. If you had a goal pace of X, would you try to maintain X for each and every mile, or would accept going at a slower pace on the hilly miles and then try to make up with a faster pace for the last 1/2?

I'm thinking of biking and the concept of power and you wouldn't want to try to maintain a constant *speed* over hills, but a constant power output and the speed would vary accordingly. But there's no power meter for running and I don't have a good intuition/feel for effort over 13 miles as I have mostly run 5k/10k distances, so I just have my watch to go by.

I don't really care that much about my finish time as I am seriously under trained for this run, so I'm willing to experiment and gain some running knowledge, but I would like to at least have a game plan going into it. Right now my plan is just to set the virtual pacer on my watch to a goal pace (which I haven't even decided on yet) and try to maintain it, hills or no hills, but I thought I would ask your opinion!

thanks
John


Not Jesse (obviously), but have you considered running by heart rate? This may not make sense if you don't train by HR, but it may be a good way to control your pacing and then let it rip the final 4 miles.
2013-09-26 8:57 AM
in reply to: dprocket

User image

New user
115
100
Rhode Island
Subject: RE: Funked Up Triathletes (Sprint, Olympic Focus) Group - OPEN
Originally posted by dprocket

Originally posted by johnmoran

Run question for Jesse-

Have a half marathon on Sunday and am trying to figure out best pacing strategy for it. I figure strategy is strategy, no matter that my pace and your pace are in different universes-- so I figured I'd ask what you think. The course is relatively hilly from mile 2 to mile 6. Nothing crazy at all, like a bunch of 100 foot vertical gains 3-4% grade at most, but hilly nonetheless. Mile 9->finish is pancake flat, even slightly downhill on some parts. If you had a goal pace of X, would you try to maintain X for each and every mile, or would accept going at a slower pace on the hilly miles and then try to make up with a faster pace for the last 1/2?

I'm thinking of biking and the concept of power and you wouldn't want to try to maintain a constant *speed* over hills, but a constant power output and the speed would vary accordingly. But there's no power meter for running and I don't have a good intuition/feel for effort over 13 miles as I have mostly run 5k/10k distances, so I just have my watch to go by.

I don't really care that much about my finish time as I am seriously under trained for this run, so I'm willing to experiment and gain some running knowledge, but I would like to at least have a game plan going into it. Right now my plan is just to set the virtual pacer on my watch to a goal pace (which I haven't even decided on yet) and try to maintain it, hills or no hills, but I thought I would ask your opinion!

thanks
John


Not Jesse (obviously), but have you considered running by heart rate? This may not make sense if you don't train by HR, but it may be a good way to control your pacing and then let it rip the final 4 miles.


Yeah, good idea, I guess that IS a kind of a power meter for running, but I don't have one at the moment and don't see myself getting one in the next couple days. I keep planning on getting into HR training for running, but it seems every time I think of doing it, I got to Amazon and look at reviews of HR monitors and then things in my price range have 3 stars and then I say "I'll just wait until I can afford a better one" and then forget about it until I think of it again and go through the same process!


2013-09-26 9:00 AM
in reply to: johnmoran

User image

Veteran
1127
100010025
Shawnee
Subject: RE: Funked Up Triathletes (Sprint, Olympic Focus) Group - OPEN
Do you have a GPS watch? What is your price range for a HR monitor?

It's amazing how this sport can suck your money. ha ha.
2013-09-26 11:05 AM
in reply to: johnmoran

User image

Veteran
1127
100010025
Shawnee
Subject: RE: Funked Up Triathletes (Sprint, Olympic Focus) Group - OPEN
Originally posted by johnmoran

Originally posted by dprocket

Originally posted by johnmoran

Run question for Jesse-

Have a half marathon on Sunday and am trying to figure out best pacing strategy for it. I figure strategy is strategy, no matter that my pace and your pace are in different universes-- so I figured I'd ask what you think. The course is relatively hilly from mile 2 to mile 6. Nothing crazy at all, like a bunch of 100 foot vertical gains 3-4% grade at most, but hilly nonetheless. Mile 9->finish is pancake flat, even slightly downhill on some parts. If you had a goal pace of X, would you try to maintain X for each and every mile, or would accept going at a slower pace on the hilly miles and then try to make up with a faster pace for the last 1/2?

I'm thinking of biking and the concept of power and you wouldn't want to try to maintain a constant *speed* over hills, but a constant power output and the speed would vary accordingly. But there's no power meter for running and I don't have a good intuition/feel for effort over 13 miles as I have mostly run 5k/10k distances, so I just have my watch to go by.

I don't really care that much about my finish time as I am seriously under trained for this run, so I'm willing to experiment and gain some running knowledge, but I would like to at least have a game plan going into it. Right now my plan is just to set the virtual pacer on my watch to a goal pace (which I haven't even decided on yet) and try to maintain it, hills or no hills, but I thought I would ask your opinion!

thanks
John


Not Jesse (obviously), but have you considered running by heart rate? This may not make sense if you don't train by HR, but it may be a good way to control your pacing and then let it rip the final 4 miles.


Yeah, good idea, I guess that IS a kind of a power meter for running, but I don't have one at the moment and don't see myself getting one in the next couple days. I keep planning on getting into HR training for running, but it seems every time I think of doing it, I got to Amazon and look at reviews of HR monitors and then things in my price range have 3 stars and then I say "I'll just wait until I can afford a better one" and then forget about it until I think of it again and go through the same process!


It won't help you this weekend, but Woot has a one day sale on the Timex Global Trainer. It's a really good deal at $169 for the watch and HR strap.
http://www.woot.com/offers/speed-distance-w-heart-rate-gps-watch

I have this watch and think it is a very good value. While the Garmin 910X is the gold standard for triathlon watches, this one will do everything you could one for triathlon training (with the exception, perhaps of an accellameter for lap swimming) at least than half the price. I bought mine at the beginning of last season and have been pretty pleased.
2013-09-26 1:43 PM
in reply to: johnmoran

User image

Regular
673
5001002525
SF Bay area
Subject: RE: Funked Up Triathletes (Sprint, Olympic Focus) Group - OPEN

Originally posted by johnmoran Run question for Jesse- Have a half marathon on Sunday and am trying to figure out best pacing strategy for it. I figure strategy is strategy, no matter that my pace and your pace are in different universes-- so I figured I'd ask what you think. The course is relatively hilly from mile 2 to mile 6. Nothing crazy at all, like a bunch of 100 foot vertical gains 3-4% grade at most, but hilly nonetheless. Mile 9->finish is pancake flat, even slightly downhill on some parts. If you had a goal pace of X, would you try to maintain X for each and every mile, or would accept going at a slower pace on the hilly miles and then try to make up with a faster pace for the last 1/2? I'm thinking of biking and the concept of power and you wouldn't want to try to maintain a constant *speed* over hills, but a constant power output and the speed would vary accordingly. But there's no power meter for running and I don't have a good intuition/feel for effort over 13 miles as I have mostly run 5k/10k distances, so I just have my watch to go by. I don't really care that much about my finish time as I am seriously under trained for this run, so I'm willing to experiment and gain some running knowledge, but I would like to at least have a game plan going into it. Right now my plan is just to set the virtual pacer on my watch to a goal pace (which I haven't even decided on yet) and try to maintain it, hills or no hills, but I thought I would ask your opinion! thanks John

John, since you don't have a real finish time in mind, I like the concept of using the run to gain knowledge.  Personally I'd use it to practice achieving a solid negative split.  On the uphills just shorten stride and maintain the same RPE to conserve some energy.  It'll cost you a small amount in time but will pay off on the back half of the course.  Perhaps take your last HM time and reduce it by the percent you think you are undertrained, then split this race into a front and back half where the front = desired average race pace + 5% and the back = desired average race pace - 5%.  If you feeling good at the end at that pace, push it a little if you want to learn more of what you are capable of in a race situation.  It'll be a fun learning experience.

2013-09-26 4:49 PM
in reply to: TTom

User image

New user
115
100
Rhode Island
Subject: RE: Funked Up Triathletes (Sprint, Olympic Focus) Group - OPEN
Originally posted by TTom

Originally posted by johnmoran Run question for Jesse- Have a half marathon on Sunday and am trying to figure out best pacing strategy for it. I figure strategy is strategy, no matter that my pace and your pace are in different universes-- so I figured I'd ask what you think. The course is relatively hilly from mile 2 to mile 6. Nothing crazy at all, like a bunch of 100 foot vertical gains 3-4% grade at most, but hilly nonetheless. Mile 9->finish is pancake flat, even slightly downhill on some parts. If you had a goal pace of X, would you try to maintain X for each and every mile, or would accept going at a slower pace on the hilly miles and then try to make up with a faster pace for the last 1/2? I'm thinking of biking and the concept of power and you wouldn't want to try to maintain a constant *speed* over hills, but a constant power output and the speed would vary accordingly. But there's no power meter for running and I don't have a good intuition/feel for effort over 13 miles as I have mostly run 5k/10k distances, so I just have my watch to go by. I don't really care that much about my finish time as I am seriously under trained for this run, so I'm willing to experiment and gain some running knowledge, but I would like to at least have a game plan going into it. Right now my plan is just to set the virtual pacer on my watch to a goal pace (which I haven't even decided on yet) and try to maintain it, hills or no hills, but I thought I would ask your opinion! thanks John

John, since you don't have a real finish time in mind, I like the concept of using the run to gain knowledge.  Personally I'd use it to practice achieving a solid negative split.  On the uphills just shorten stride and maintain the same RPE to conserve some energy.  It'll cost you a small amount in time but will pay off on the back half of the course.  Perhaps take your last HM time and reduce it by the percent you think you are undertrained, then split this race into a front and back half where the front = desired average race pace + 5% and the back = desired average race pace - 5%.  If you feeling good at the end at that pace, push it a little if you want to learn more of what you are capable of in a race situation.  It'll be a fun learning experience.




Thanks! I like it! I like the idea of actually negative splitting it (instead of having that as a 1/2 intention and then going out hard and forgetting my plan)

Also to all, re- watches-- I guess my problem is, I have a Garmin 10 GPS watch already, which I am happy with. So I either buy a 2nd GPS watch w/ heart rate monitor for $160-$225 dollars (kind of the range I've been looking at) or buy just a Polar HR monitor watch for $60, but then I have to wear 2 watches! Hindsight is 20/20 but I SHOULD have just bought a GPS/HR combo to begin with....
New Thread
BT Development Mentor Program Archives » Funked Up Triathletes (Sprint, Olympic Focus) Group - Closed Until Next Season Rss Feed  
 
 
of 16