login
long runs zone 2
-
No new posts
 2013-06-11 2:37 PM |
 106 |  Subject: long runs zone 2Just wondering if I'm doing something wrong. I've been running for just over a year now and i've started running with a Heart Rate Monitor (HRM) last December. The zone 2 that I've been using is 140-154 for running and it's based on an avg of mathematical formulas that I've used. So it is NOT a lab graded test. When starting off I have no problem keeping things in the zone 2 range, however when I get over the 3 or 4 mile mark, I really struggle to keep my heart rate in the zone 2 range, it seems to jump up to the 160s even after I slow my pace down. About the only way that I can stay in zone 2 for an entire run is to walk every so often. I don't feel that I'm out of the "conversational pace" of Perceived Exertion. My logs are up to date and I'm a 30 year old male. |
| 2013-06-11 2:49 PM in reply to: TrBeau17 |
1660   | Subject: RE: long runs zone 2 The more run miles (training) you get in your legs, the longer you will last in zone2 before spiking. It's a fitness issue. As abeginner, it's natural that you'll fatigue faster than an experienced runner, with resulting elevated HR. |
| 2013-06-11 2:52 PM in reply to: TrBeau17 |
Not a Coach 11473  Media, PA | Subject: RE: long runs zone 2 Do a field test if you want to use HR. After a warm-up, do a 30min time trial. Aim to run as steady a pace as possible (which should feel progressively more challenging over the duration of the run--like a race) while being completely 'out of gas' at the 30min mark. Use avg. HR over the last 20min of the run as your threshold and then calculate zones from there. It may take a couple tries to nail a test like this if you are not used to running hard for that duration. |
| 2013-06-11 3:01 PM in reply to: yazmaster |
| 106 | Subject: RE: long runs zone 2 Originally posted by yazmaster The more run miles (training) you get in your legs, the longer you will last in zone2 before spiking. It's a fitness issue. As abeginner, it's natural that you'll fatigue faster than an experienced runner, with resulting elevated HR. I agree 100% with your statement but I've been doing 20-30 MPW running consistently for over 6 months, shouldn't I be over that stage? |
| 2013-06-11 3:31 PM in reply to: TrBeau17 |
Pro 6582 Melbourne FL Gold member | Subject: RE: long runs zone 2 Likely that zone is off base for your actual Z2. Here's the BT article on the field test and some other info. BT has a HR zone calculator too: Put your cursor over your name on the red toolbar upper right and go to Settings/Training Log Settings/HR Zone manager... Add New HR zone, Run, Lactate Threshold Method. This is the big thread/FAQ that started it all. Enjoy the field run test! |
| 2013-06-11 4:51 PM in reply to: 0 |
| 239 | Subject: RE: long runs zone 2 I have read much (here and elsewhere) about Z2 training. I get the concept about building up base endurance using this method. However, I still don't see how this will help me increase my race pace. For example: train for 3 months in Z2---pace of 10min/mi at beginning---pace of 8:30min/mi at end. That's all well and good, but how does this help me run a race in Z4? I've spent 3 months training in Z2 but I don't plan to run that "slow" in a race. Any enightenment would be greatly appreciated. Thanks all. Edited by dbrook1 2013-06-11 4:51 PM |
| 2013-06-11 6:48 PM in reply to: dbrook1 |
Extreme Veteran 1018 | Subject: RE: long runs zone 2 You are still going to have to do some speed work when you are ready to race. Legs need to know what it feels like to run and burn. Need to do 45-60min tempo runs. Also need to do 15-20min worth Z5 intervals. It's going to take awhile to drop from 10 to 8:30. People HR train for years. Right now, your Z2 is 10:00 and Z4 is 8:30. The goal is to have Z2 be 8:30 so your Z4 will be 6:30. You are rebuilding your engine. There will be time to fine tune and add the turbo upgrade. |
| 2013-06-11 7:09 PM in reply to: TrBeau17 |
| 1660 | Subject: RE: long runs zone 2 Originally posted by TrBeau17 Originally posted by yazmaster The more run miles (training) you get in your legs, the longer you will last in zone2 before spiking. It's a fitness issue. As abeginner, it's natural that you'll fatigue faster than an experienced runner, with resulting elevated HR. I agree 100% with your statement but I've been doing 20-30 MPW running consistently for over 6 months, shouldn't I be over that stage? Not necessarily. But re-reading your post, I do agree with the others above that you really have to field test to get a true zone 2. Odds are you have your zone wrong since you derived it mathematically, which has been shown to be very unreliable and highly variable between individuals. |
| 2013-06-11 7:45 PM in reply to: yazmaster |
New user 322 KY | Subject: RE: long runs zone 2 I have recently started using a Heart Rate Monitor myself and have been researching the Zone 2 training theory. According to most of what I read, most people feel like they are running painfully slow while in Zone 2. I know I do. I usually run 8-8:40 on my easy days but in Zone 2 I can't seem to get under 9:45 without the heart rate alarm beeping. It does sound like many people take walk breaks. There is a local running coach here who trains his athletes according to heart rate, and there is always a short (30 second or so) walk break incorporated into every 15 minutes or so of running. I watched a friend PR in a marathon at age 46 (she ran a 3:17) by following that plan. It really does seem to show great results for a lot of people who stick with it. |
| 2013-06-11 7:58 PM in reply to: GAUG3 |
| 239 | Subject: RE: long runs zone 2 Originally posted by GAUG3 Right now, your Z2 is 10:00 and Z4 is 8:30. The goal is to have Z2 be 8:30 so your Z4 will be 6:30. I get that, but how will my heart/lungs/muscles be able to handle a race (of any length) at the higher pace when it seems the majority of the training will be at such a lower pace? I'm not disagreeing with the principle at all, I just don't see how I can race at a faster pace longer when I haven't really "trained" for it. |
| 2013-06-11 8:13 PM in reply to: TrBeau17 |
Pro 6011 Camp Hill, Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: long runs zone 2 This thread is already a bit of a mess with some misleading information. Listen to Johnnykay and donto. You need to do a test to determine your zones. Then gradually build training volume with the majority of your running in your zone 2. Eventually, it will benefit you to mix in approximately 20% of your volume as pace work. Notice I said "pace" and not "speed". Too many people think they need to do balls to the wall efforts for intervals, when they would be better served doing race specific pace intervals. To answer your question about how zone 2 running will help you race in zone 3, look at it this way: increasing your pace in zone 2 slides your pace in every zone, not just zone 2. This means you're also able to run faster in zone 3, but the training in zone 2 places lower forces on your joints and connective tissues than higher intensity running. |
| 2013-06-11 8:54 PM in reply to: TriMyBest |
| 239 | Subject: RE: long runs zone 2 Originally posted by TriMyBest To answer your question about how zone 2 running will help you race in zone 3, look at it this way: increasing your pace in zone 2 slides your pace in every zone, not just zone 2. This means you're also able to run faster in zone 3, but the training in zone 2 places lower forces on your joints and connective tissues than higher intensity running. I'm sure many of you are rolling your eyes at this ignorant newb so I don't expect an answer to this, I just want to clarify my confusion (does that even make sense???). I get that the paces in all zones will increase, what I don't get is how my body will be able to sustain extended time in zones higher than 2 if the majority of my training is in 2. Again, not trying to frustrate y'all. I've gained a ton of highly valuable info from this site in just a few short weeks. Thank you all for your help. |
| 2013-06-12 3:32 AM in reply to: 0 |
Pro 6011 Camp Hill, Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: long runs zone 2 Originally posted by dbrook1 Endurance events are primarily limited by aerobic capacity (the body's ability to utilize oxygen dependent energy pathways efficiently), not anaerobic capacity (utilization of the energy pathways that don't rely on oxygen). Because of this, increasing you're aerobic capacity is one of the most effective ways to improve endurance performance. Whether you are running in zone 2 or zone 4, the primary performance limiter is the same, so whether you're training for a 5k where you will run in zones 4-5 or a marathon where you will run primarily in zone 2, effective training for each will have much more in common than they have different.Originally posted by TriMyBest To answer your question about how zone 2 running will help you race in zone 3, look at it this way: increasing your pace in zone 2 slides your pace in every zone, not just zone 2. This means you're also able to run faster in zone 3, but the training in zone 2 places lower forces on your joints and connective tissues than higher intensity running. I'm sure many of you are rolling your eyes at this ignorant newb so I don't expect an answer to this, I just want to clarify my confusion (does that even make sense???). I get that the paces in all zones will increase, what I don't get is how my body will be able to sustain extended time in zones higher than 2 if the majority of my training is in 2. Again, not trying to frustrate y'all. I've gained a ton of highly valuable info from this site in just a few short weeks. Thank you all for your help. Edited by TriMyBest 2013-06-12 3:34 AM |
| 2013-06-12 7:24 AM in reply to: TriMyBest |
Pro 6582 Melbourne FL Gold member | Subject: RE: long runs zone 2 Originally posted by dbrook1 I wish I still had the link to a site I had on my old PC that described the physiological changes that occur when training at lower intensities for longer durations than at high intensities for shorter durations, it was a good site and a lot of it was beyond me. IIRC, part of it was the body develops the small blood capillaries needed for delivering the O2, nutrients and waste removal within the muscle cells a lot more efficiently at lower intensities. As these are developing(ed) only then will you be able to take advantage of them in races & tempo/interval training that are part of most intermediate to advance training plans to maximize racing results. In the meantime, as was stated, you will slowly find your training pace decrease and if you went out and did a race such as a 5k or 10k you'd find nice decreases in times in part because of the new pathways developed.Originally posted by TriMyBest To answer your question about how zone 2 running will help you race in zone 3, look at it this way: increasing your pace in zone 2 slides your pace in every zone, not just zone 2. This means you're also able to run faster in zone 3, but the training in zone 2 places lower forces on your joints and connective tissues than higher intensity running. I'm sure many of you are rolling your eyes at this ignorant newb so I don't expect an answer to this, I just want to clarify my confusion (does that even make sense???). I get that the paces in all zones will increase, what I don't get is how my body will be able to sustain extended time in zones higher than 2 if the majority of my training is in 2. Again, not trying to frustrate y'all. I've gained a ton of highly valuable info from this site in just a few short weeks. Thank you all for your help. And No, I didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn last night and am not a doc, coach, or anything related! |
| 2013-06-12 7:30 AM in reply to: dbrook1 |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: long runs zone 2 Originally posted by dbrook1 I'm sure many of you are rolling your eyes at this ignorant newb so I don't expect an answer to this, I just want to clarify my confusion (does that even make sense???). I get that the paces in all zones will increase, what I don't get is how my body will be able to sustain extended time in zones higher than 2 if the majority of my training is in 2. Again, not trying to frustrate y'all. I've gained a ton of highly valuable info from this site in just a few short weeks. Thank you all for your help. I've always found this table to be quite useful when considering the adapatations due to training at different intensities. This is for cycling but for running it would be very similar - note that training intensities 1-5 are all primarily aerobic while 6 and 7 are primarily anaerobic: http://home.trainingpeaks.com/articles/cycling/power-training-level... Shane |
| 2013-06-12 11:51 AM in reply to: gsmacleod |
| 239 | Subject: RE: long runs zone 2 Thank you TriMyBest, Donto, and gsmacleod for your patience and explanations. They all helped to make a little more sense of this for me. |
 2013-06-12 12:01 PM in reply to: TriMyBest |
| Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
| 2013-06-12 12:10 PM in reply to: tkos |
| Extreme Veteran 933 Connecticut | Subject: RE: long runs zone 2 It is kind of a leap of faith, it's strange. I have called it one of the great mysteries of life (which only highlights how droll and narrow my life is!) how lots and lots of steady, lower intensity running makes you faster. But it does. You're not running slow enough, and it hasn't been long enough. Six months is just kinda scraping the edges of when things start to change noticeably. |
|
|
|
| |||
| Started by UrsusAdiposimus Views: 4009 Posts: 38 | ||
| |||
| |||
|
| ||||
|
| |||
|
| |||
|
|
View profile
Add to friends
Go to training log
Go to race log
Send a message
View album
CONNECT WITH FACEBOOK