Affordable Care Act for dummies version (Page 2)

The penalty is the greater of $95 or 1% of your taxable income, per adult.  In two years, it will be up to 2.5% or $700.  After that, it will continue to raise at the same rate as inflation.

Magic 8 ball says "all signs point to no".

I say this somewhat tongue in cheek, but one rule that's fairly constant in progressive programs is they typically do no reward personal responsibility.  So, if you are financially responsible enough to self insure I'm going to guess they will not have a special provision for you.

Yes, this is exactly what I said to my husband. He heard the fine was going to be really high but I have no idea.  Everything I have done medically I pay out of pocket for anyway right now. Our current insurance does not cover anything we actually need except my daughters shots for Kindergarten. We don't have vision, dental or prescriptions. I go to the chiro, I pay out of pocket.

So yes, I have been wondering about that as an option.

I explained it this way to a friend earlier today.

1. Problem:  Lots of people don't have healthcare because they have pre-existing conditions and/or it's too expensive.
   Solution: Force insurance companies to cover pre-existing conditions.
2. Side Effect: Insurance company costs increase dramatically.
   Solution:  Insurance companies raise rates to offset higher payouts.
3. Side Effect: Insurance becomes even more expensive and fewer people will be able to purchase insurance
   Solution: Force everyone to buy insurance and provide subsidies for lower income people to pay for it via tax credits.  Make them pay a penalty/tax if they refuse.   This will put more money into the pool to help lower insurance rates.
4. Side Effect: Insurance is still too expensive and few will still be able to afford it, resulting in most just having a new tax/penalty.
   Pre-Existing crowd is now able to get insurance, but everyone else pays higher rates, poor and young still don't have insurance.
   Solution: Dunno

I don't completely agree with this statement, but to use it as a premise. One of the things that Obamacare does is allow the young to stay on their parent's healthcare longer which alleviates part of your side effect section.

I think the next big problem to tackle is the ABSURD medical care industry which overcharge patients (and therefore insurance companies) for procedures that should be much less costly.  That is an entirely seperate debate however.

There are obviously more things than just pre-existing conditions.  However, I will say leaving kids on longer also drives the costs of insurance up because they're having to pay out more with no new revenue.  So, it rolls right into the #2 side effect.

For the second part, take a step back and look at why they are charging the ABSURD prices.  Doctors and Hospitals have had massive increases in patients, and they've had massive increases in lawsuits and there's probably 10 other things out of their control raising their prices.  The way economics works is you raise your costs to get demand in check with what you can supply.

If you own a taco stand and people line up around the block you will raise your prices.  You keep raising them until people stop lining up and then you drop them back down.  Eventually you find an equilibrium.

low deductible health insurance subsidized by employers results in a near infinite demand for people covered by insurance. Throw in potential lawsuits and all the other government regulations and it results in the demand far outpacing the supply so the providers have no choice but to keep raising prices.

The fix is to get rid of employer subsidized insurance and make people write their own check for insurance like they do with their car insurance.  You can have a low deductible PPO, but it's going to cost you $2000/mo.  Ouch, no thanks, I'll take the HSA for $250 Alex.   I'll also shop around for the best plan for my family versus being force fed whatever bloated insurance my company signed up for.  This will result in people using their insurance more selectively versus for every little sniffle.  The ACA is unfortunately just adding more fuel to the fire to drive healthcare costs up.

THAT is the best analogy I've seen yet. Nice.

Technically your Dad only paid for it.  With money he took from your brothers and sisters... Who maybe used to be able to buy an $86,000 car, but now must pay $120,000 for an $86,000 car, because they bought yours too.

But your Dad doesn't tell you any of that. He just says: "LOOK!  SHINY CARS for EVERYONE!"

No.....no matter what, he's paying for a shiny car with money that he'd have left to you....right?  What if you have no brothers or sisters?  Does he leave money to other people's kids?

To take it one step further.  You would have to buy the car with your own money for $86,000 and then next year your Dad will give you $80,000 of it back.  So you have to front the money.

The premium tax credit will be figured on the individual’s 2014 Federal income tax return and is based on the income reported on that return. The calculated credit will then be compared to the subsidy amount the individual received in 2014 to determine whether the individual will receive a refundable credit or have to pay an additional tax.

The taxpayer will receive a refundable credit if the premium tax credit is greater than their subsidy amount.

The taxpayer will owe additional tax if the premium tax credit is less than their subsidy amount.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that a very high percentage of families living on $30k a year won't be able to pay $8600 out of pocket for insurance.

On the taking side of things, you're right they're just going to take it to subsidize people and there's not much we can do about it.  On the giving side I'll say this one is a lot different than the child subsidy because you have to pay the money before you get a tax credit similar to a mortgage deduction.  Poor people just get free money at the end of the year for having kids.

It will help those that can afford the insurance, but for those that are truly poor and have no extra money to come up with, this credit does nothing.  They just end up with a fine of more money at the end of the year.

I have several relatives on Facebook that are in the very poor club and they're not too happy with the ACA right now.  last month they were going on and on about getting insurance for the first time ever.  Then they started seeing some of the premiums that they'd have to fork over to get it.  My niece in particular was rambling on about not even having an extra $10 a month, let alone $300.

I'm not sure where she got her info, but I was referring to the premiums themselves.  I completely agree with you in regards to the copays and preventative care, but in order to do that the individual has to fork out $200-$300 a month for the really cheap plans.  Yes, if you're really poor you get most of that money back at the end of the year, but I don't think most people realize how poor people live.  I grew up in that world and still have a lot of friends/family who live there.  They don't have any extra money at all.  Even if it was $300 for a year, she wouldn't be able to come up with it.

I'm not sure what she's doing for healthcare today, but she's cranking out the kids and living on welfare.  In these communities credit means nothing because they have never had, nor ever will have credit.  
My Dad died with close to $100k in unpaid healthcare bills and he never gave it a thought.  I didn't even know about it until the state tried claiming the proceeds from his estate.  I always joked to my wife that when my Dad died I'd get a bill because there was nothing to inherit.  Sure enough, I got a bill for $100k and his only asset was an old TV.

A family of 4 or more living on $30k a year is under 133% of the federal poverty limit and wouldn't have to buy any insurance, they would qualify for Medicaid.  At least they do in the states that didn't opt out of the ACA Medicaid expansion.

I will admit the whole thing is confusing, but I spent quite a bit of time trying to find how the subsidies were being paid and everything I saw was on your tax return.  I just read another one and it only talked about getting a tax rebate, but I just did some more digging and found a site that mentioned what you just said.  Man this law is confusing.  

So, based on that I take back in part my concern because if the government directly subsidizes the insurance premium it then comes down to the $50 a month or whatever for the insurance.

I'll still suggest that anything over free will still not result in a lot of poor people signing up, but it would most definitely be a lot more affordable to get the insurance itself than before.  

Thanks for pointing that out