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2013-11-21 8:35 AM
in reply to: tuwood

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Master
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Centennial, CO
Subject: RE: Republicans are LOSING!

Tony,  I totally agree with where we are at now, but does it really matter when more than 1/2 the population is getting freebies and know that electing a Republican would lose them their Obamaphone?  Just makes me sad.  Even when they see their party sucks, they will feel the other side is worse.



2013-11-21 9:29 AM
in reply to: velocomp

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Pro
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Omaha, NE
Subject: RE: Republicans are LOSING!

Originally posted by velocomp

Tony,  I totally agree with where we are at now, but does it really matter when more than 1/2 the population is getting freebies and know that electing a Republican would lose them their Obamaphone?  Just makes me sad.  Even when they see their party sucks, they will feel the other side is worse.

“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the people discover they can vote themselves largess out of the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the canidate promising the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that democracy always collapses over a loose fiscal policy--to be followed by a dictatorship.”  Alexander Fraser Tytler

(there's some debate as to this being an actual quote of his, but I still like it)  

 

2013-11-21 5:43 PM
in reply to: tuwood

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Expert
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Boise, Idaho
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Subject: RE: Republicans are LOSING!

Great Quote!

But it's equally as true for Republicans and "Trickly Down Economics" as it is for Democrats and "Obamaphones". 

Another reason for Term Limits.

2013-11-21 9:35 PM
in reply to: jeffnboise

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Elite
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Subject: RE: Republicans are LOSING!

Terms are limited every November every two years. Give it a try. 

2013-11-21 9:47 PM
in reply to: velocomp

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Elite
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Subject: RE: Republicans are LOSING!

Originally posted by velocomp

Tony,  I totally agree with where we are at now, but does it really matter when more than 1/2 the population is getting freebies and know that electing a Republican would lose them their Obamaphone?  Just makes me sad.  Even when they see their party sucks, they will feel the other side is worse.

This is so ridiculous. I hope you enjoy a diminishing role in government when you continue to think the majority of Americans are welfare loosers. It is this very statement that continues to be parrotted over and over again that is the reason nobody wants to listen.

Actual welfare "loosers" that are able bodied and would rather milk the system instead of work are a very small percentage of Americans. The vast majority of Americans that are included in this statement that they pay no NET taxes are indeed taxpayers. Those that go to work everyday and yet receive tax breaks and credits that gives them back their money. These very same Americans are also Veterans and active duty that get the same benefits. Those that are retired and receive benefits from a system they paid into. 

Now if you want to rant about the ridiculous tax code in this country by all means have at it. If you want to say that all Americans need to contribute something, then do so.... but no... what we get instead is that the MAJORITY of Americans are blood sucking leaches looking for their next hand out. Good luck with that, let me know how that works out. 

And by the way, just out of curiosity.... did you itemize last year? Did you receive any tax breaks? Did you adjust your income?

2013-11-22 11:24 AM
in reply to: tuwood

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Boise
Subject: RE: Republicans are LOSING!
Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by jeffnboise

BUMP!

Cuz I'm giving myself some post-Veteran's Day love.

CHRISTIE/CRUZ, PAUL, RYAN,  2016  

 Kinda sounds like a porn star, don't it.  

 

CRUZ/PAUL for me.  Christie doesn't have a chance to win the general election and the fact that the MSM and the democrats are all pushing him (like they did Romney) proves the point.  

As for the Republicans losing.  I saw this a week or so back and thought of you.  

Mother Jones Shocker: 'New Poll Shows Democratic Incumbents in Big Trouble'

If the Dem's don't get the ACA figured out (and fast) they're probably not going to fare so well the next few elections.




You don't think Christie could win the general election? I have to disagree. I'd probably have to flip a coin to decide whether or not to break my vow to not vote for a D or an R so I could vote for him. I'd likely settle on not, being as I'm in a state where he'd win by about 40 points.


2013-11-22 1:41 PM
in reply to: JoshR

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Pro
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Omaha, NE
Subject: RE: Republicans are LOSING!

Originally posted by JoshR
Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by jeffnboise

BUMP!

Cuz I'm giving myself some post-Veteran's Day love.

CHRISTIE/CRUZ, PAUL, RYAN,  2016  

 Kinda sounds like a porn star, don't it.  

 

CRUZ/PAUL for me.  Christie doesn't have a chance to win the general election and the fact that the MSM and the democrats are all pushing him (like they did Romney) proves the point.  

As for the Republicans losing.  I saw this a week or so back and thought of you.  

Mother Jones Shocker: 'New Poll Shows Democratic Incumbents in Big Trouble'

If the Dem's don't get the ACA figured out (and fast) they're probably not going to fare so well the next few elections.

You don't think Christie could win the general election? I have to disagree. I'd probably have to flip a coin to decide whether or not to break my vow to not vote for a D or an R so I could vote for him. I'd likely settle on not, being as I'm in a state where he'd win by about 40 points.

The basis for me stating Christie doesn't have a chance is primarily focused on the media's fawning over him.  They're doing the same thing with him they did with Romney prior to the last election.  When the media is telling me who has the best chance to win, I'm fairly certain that's the candidate the democrats feel they have the best chance at beating.  If Cruz was a slam dunk win for the Dems, then the media would be fawning over him and pushing him, but IMHO the Democrats (and the Republican establishment) are afraid of him so they want to shut him down in the primaries.

I do like Christie, and agree with a lot of his politics but I don't get any sense that he's a fiscal conservative.  For me, fiscal conservatism is non negotiable in my candidate going forward.  I was a Romney supporter, but in hind sight I'm certain now that he's no fiscal conservative.  He's just another GOPE as far as I'm concerned.

On this topic I just did a google for his polling numbers and found this article.  Not worth much, but thought it was interesting.  Christie's obviously big in the NE, but meh pretty much everywhere else.
http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/11/12/21407295-nbc-poll-christie-faces-divided-gop-trails-clinton-in-hypothetical-16-race

2013-11-22 1:44 PM
in reply to: tuwood

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Pro
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Omaha, NE
Subject: RE: Republicans are LOSING!

Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by JoshR
Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by jeffnboise

BUMP!

Cuz I'm giving myself some post-Veteran's Day love.

CHRISTIE/CRUZ, PAUL, RYAN,  2016  

 Kinda sounds like a porn star, don't it.  

 

CRUZ/PAUL for me.  Christie doesn't have a chance to win the general election and the fact that the MSM and the democrats are all pushing him (like they did Romney) proves the point.  

As for the Republicans losing.  I saw this a week or so back and thought of you.  

Mother Jones Shocker: 'New Poll Shows Democratic Incumbents in Big Trouble'

If the Dem's don't get the ACA figured out (and fast) they're probably not going to fare so well the next few elections.

You don't think Christie could win the general election? I have to disagree. I'd probably have to flip a coin to decide whether or not to break my vow to not vote for a D or an R so I could vote for him. I'd likely settle on not, being as I'm in a state where he'd win by about 40 points.

The basis for me stating Christie doesn't have a chance is primarily focused on the media's fawning over him.  They're doing the same thing with him they did with Romney prior to the last election.  When the media is telling me who has the best chance to win, I'm fairly certain that's the candidate the democrats feel they have the best chance at beating.  If Cruz was a slam dunk win for the Dems, then the media would be fawning over him and pushing him, but IMHO the Democrats (and the Republican establishment) are afraid of him so they want to shut him down in the primaries.

I do like Christie, and agree with a lot of his politics but I don't get any sense that he's a fiscal conservative.  For me, fiscal conservatism is non negotiable in my candidate going forward.  I was a Romney supporter, but in hind sight I'm certain now that he's no fiscal conservative.  He's just another GOPE as far as I'm concerned.

On this topic I just did a google for his polling numbers and found this article.  Not worth much, but thought it was interesting.  Christie's obviously big in the NE, but meh pretty much everywhere else.
http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/11/12/21407295-nbc-poll-christie-faces-divided-gop-trails-clinton-in-hypothetical-16-race

Forgot to ask.   What is it you like about him?  I would think him to be a lot more of an "establishment GOP" guy than many of the other potential candidates.

2013-11-23 10:15 AM
in reply to: powerman

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Master
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20005001001001002525
Centennial, CO
Subject: RE: Republicans are LOSING!

Originally posted by powerman

Originally posted by velocomp

Tony,  I totally agree with where we are at now, but does it really matter when more than 1/2 the population is getting freebies and know that electing a Republican would lose them their Obamaphone?  Just makes me sad.  Even when they see their party sucks, they will feel the other side is worse.

Actual welfare "loosers" that are able bodied and would rather milk the system instead of work are a very small percentage of Americans. The vast majority of Americans that are included in this statement that they pay no NET taxes are indeed taxpayers. Those that go to work everyday and yet receive tax breaks and credits that gives them back their money. These very same Americans are also Veterans and active duty that get the same benefits. Those that are retired and receive benefits from a system they paid into. 

What is ridiculous is the people that don't realize that it only takes a small percentage to make a difference when the country is so equally divided.  There is a big difference between those that milk the system and those that depend on the system.  And when the government's goals seem to be to put more people in the system, the government is failing.

2013-11-23 2:07 PM
in reply to: velocomp

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Champion
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Chicago
Silver member
Subject: RE: Republicans are LOSING!
Originally posted by velocomp

Tony,  I totally agree with where we are at now, but does it really matter when more than 1/2 the population is getting freebies and know that electing a Republican would lose them their Obamaphone?  Just makes me sad.  Even when they see their party sucks, they will feel the other side is worse.




A couple things -- first less than half of the population is on some sort of government assistance. Of those, more than a third receive social security benefits they earned over the many years they worked or veterans benefits they earned while serving the country. Personally, I'm not going to say that someone who earned social security benefits working for 50 years or someone who is on the GI Bill is getting a freebie.
2013-11-23 10:08 PM
in reply to: velocomp

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Elite
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Subject: RE: Republicans are LOSING!

Originally posted by velocomp

Originally posted by powerman

Originally posted by velocomp

Tony,  I totally agree with where we are at now, but does it really matter when more than 1/2 the population is getting freebies and know that electing a Republican would lose them their Obamaphone?  Just makes me sad.  Even when they see their party sucks, they will feel the other side is worse.

Actual welfare "loosers" that are able bodied and would rather milk the system instead of work are a very small percentage of Americans. The vast majority of Americans that are included in this statement that they pay no NET taxes are indeed taxpayers. Those that go to work everyday and yet receive tax breaks and credits that gives them back their money. These very same Americans are also Veterans and active duty that get the same benefits. Those that are retired and receive benefits from a system they paid into. 

What is ridiculous is the people that don't realize that it only takes a small percentage to make a difference when the country is so equally divided.  There is a big difference between those that milk the system and those that depend on the system.  And when the government's goals seem to be to put more people in the system, the government is failing.

I agree with you on that. And what it is going to take is people. And when you right off 53% of them... well, that is not a winning strategy.

The liberals are always taken to task for promoting class warfare... and rightly so, because they do. But claiming superiority, or the moral high ground for being a 47%'er... well, that's class warfare. Both sides do it. The GOP stokes the fire just as much as the other side. If you want it to change, then stop playing their game. That 53% statement had a very specific purpose.... and it worked exceptionally well... just look at how long it has been repeated. Darn near become a "rallying cry" at this point. Nothing but simple manipulation of the masses. Period.

What the actual problem is isn't a class... it is the ridiculous tax code used to buy votes, and benefit the rich. That is the problem that needs to be fixed, not the fact that some in this country do not pay as much as others which makes those "some" leaches.

The real problem is indeed the Golden Rule that he who has the gold makes the rules. I'm not talking wealth redistribution, I'm talking power redistribution. The GOP has no intention what so ever to give the power back to The People... and neither does the DNC. 

Talk about the problem, not the people. you need them.



2013-11-24 9:32 PM
in reply to: powerman

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Pro
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500010001002525
Omaha, NE
Subject: RE: Republicans are LOSING!

Originally posted by powerman

Originally posted by velocomp

Originally posted by powerman

Originally posted by velocomp

Tony,  I totally agree with where we are at now, but does it really matter when more than 1/2 the population is getting freebies and know that electing a Republican would lose them their Obamaphone?  Just makes me sad.  Even when they see their party sucks, they will feel the other side is worse.

Actual welfare "loosers" that are able bodied and would rather milk the system instead of work are a very small percentage of Americans. The vast majority of Americans that are included in this statement that they pay no NET taxes are indeed taxpayers. Those that go to work everyday and yet receive tax breaks and credits that gives them back their money. These very same Americans are also Veterans and active duty that get the same benefits. Those that are retired and receive benefits from a system they paid into. 

What is ridiculous is the people that don't realize that it only takes a small percentage to make a difference when the country is so equally divided.  There is a big difference between those that milk the system and those that depend on the system.  And when the government's goals seem to be to put more people in the system, the government is failing.

I agree with you on that. And what it is going to take is people. And when you right off 53% of them... well, that is not a winning strategy.

The liberals are always taken to task for promoting class warfare... and rightly so, because they do. But claiming superiority, or the moral high ground for being a 47%'er... well, that's class warfare. Both sides do it. The GOP stokes the fire just as much as the other side. If you want it to change, then stop playing their game. That 53% statement had a very specific purpose.... and it worked exceptionally well... just look at how long it has been repeated. Darn near become a "rallying cry" at this point. Nothing but simple manipulation of the masses. Period.

What the actual problem is isn't a class... it is the ridiculous tax code used to buy votes, and benefit the rich. That is the problem that needs to be fixed, not the fact that some in this country do not pay as much as others which makes those "some" leaches.

The real problem is indeed the Golden Rule that he who has the gold makes the rules. I'm not talking wealth redistribution, I'm talking power redistribution. The GOP has no intention what so ever to give the power back to The People... and neither does the DNC. 

Talk about the problem, not the people. you need them.

I certainly agree with you about changing the tax code because it does benefit the rich.  However, I don't see how you can say that people who pay zero federal income tax and many that get payments over and above what they put in are not being benefited as well.  The only true fair tax system is a flat consumption based VAT and elimination of federal income tax system.

Simply exempt food, utilities, and housing up to a certain amount and be done with it.  You can yell regressive tax harming the poor all you want, but if you're poor and buying a big screen TV or an XBox then you need to pay tax on it.  If you're putting food on your table and a roof over your head then you don't.  

2013-11-25 12:25 AM
in reply to: tuwood

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Elite
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500010001001002525
Subject: RE: Republicans are LOSING!

Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by powerman

Originally posted by velocomp

Originally posted by powerman

Originally posted by velocomp

Tony,  I totally agree with where we are at now, but does it really matter when more than 1/2 the population is getting freebies and know that electing a Republican would lose them their Obamaphone?  Just makes me sad.  Even when they see their party sucks, they will feel the other side is worse.

Actual welfare "loosers" that are able bodied and would rather milk the system instead of work are a very small percentage of Americans. The vast majority of Americans that are included in this statement that they pay no NET taxes are indeed taxpayers. Those that go to work everyday and yet receive tax breaks and credits that gives them back their money. These very same Americans are also Veterans and active duty that get the same benefits. Those that are retired and receive benefits from a system they paid into. 

What is ridiculous is the people that don't realize that it only takes a small percentage to make a difference when the country is so equally divided.  There is a big difference between those that milk the system and those that depend on the system.  And when the government's goals seem to be to put more people in the system, the government is failing.

I agree with you on that. And what it is going to take is people. And when you right off 53% of them... well, that is not a winning strategy.

The liberals are always taken to task for promoting class warfare... and rightly so, because they do. But claiming superiority, or the moral high ground for being a 47%'er... well, that's class warfare. Both sides do it. The GOP stokes the fire just as much as the other side. If you want it to change, then stop playing their game. That 53% statement had a very specific purpose.... and it worked exceptionally well... just look at how long it has been repeated. Darn near become a "rallying cry" at this point. Nothing but simple manipulation of the masses. Period.

What the actual problem is isn't a class... it is the ridiculous tax code used to buy votes, and benefit the rich. That is the problem that needs to be fixed, not the fact that some in this country do not pay as much as others which makes those "some" leaches.

The real problem is indeed the Golden Rule that he who has the gold makes the rules. I'm not talking wealth redistribution, I'm talking power redistribution. The GOP has no intention what so ever to give the power back to The People... and neither does the DNC. 

Talk about the problem, not the people. you need them.

I certainly agree with you about changing the tax code because it does benefit the rich.  However, I don't see how you can say that people who pay zero federal income tax and many that get payments over and above what they put in are not being benefited as well.  The only true fair tax system is a flat consumption based VAT and elimination of federal income tax system.

Simply exempt food, utilities, and housing up to a certain amount and be done with it.  You can yell regressive tax harming the poor all you want, but if you're poor and buying a big screen TV or an XBox then you need to pay tax on it.  If you're putting food on your table and a roof over your head then you don't.  

Because I didn't say that. I said the tax code is used to buy votes and benefit the rich. It buys votes from the poor giving them stuff, it benefits/buys votes from the rich by giving them more money. Poor people getting a couple bucks does not mean anything. Poor people getting benefits and becoming dependent on the government benefits the parties tremendously.

But again, the problem is with tax code, it is with legislation, it is with self serving politicians. The problem in this country isn't that we have too many PEOPLE dependent on the government... the problem is the government offering dependence. 

When ever the GOP get's to a point that they actually want to fix this country and it's problems, then they will stop being the party of exclusion. It is such an easy target for the liberals, because it is 100% true. If you are not a 47%... you are a burden to society. If you do not pray like us, and agree with us on abortion, then you are an immoral person. If you do not want a global military empire... then you are unpatriotic.

Independence and freedom cut across all party lines. Why is it that the GOP is so hell bent on drawing lines in the sand?

2013-11-25 10:28 AM
in reply to: 0

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Expert
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Boise, Idaho
Bronze member
Subject: RE: Republicans are LOSING!

When the Right moves left and the Left moves right.  NOW we have a govt. that can function.  NOW you have a climate were a 3rd party candidate can compete with grand ideas.  Where the voter box has more power than a corporate checkbook.  (uncontrolled laughter follows-and I wake from my slumber).  "WTH!"

edited cuz I got the "quotey" thing all wrong. So I removed the quote.



Edited by jeffnboise 2013-11-25 10:32 AM
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