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2013-11-01 1:13 PM

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Subject: Plans? Plans?!?!!? Plans.
Hi, everyone!
I am planning to sign up for my first full IM distance at Sundusky REV3 September 2014

I was doing occasional triathlons for past 2-3 years, I did half IM, ran marathon.

I believe I need better training for full IM. I looked at BT plans, ordered book Be Iron Fit (I don not know what's in it yet)
I would like to be able to change days in the plan. For example: BT plan has Long Run on Saturday, but because of my work schedule I can do a short run that day. Or day off is Monday, but my day off must be Friday again because of my work schedule
Should I sign up for Bronze/Silver on BT?

What other plans I can look at?


2013-11-02 9:22 AM
in reply to: trig

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Subject: RE: Plans? Plans?!?!!? Plans.

i have used the BT plans and the Be Iron Fit plans in the past. You can change the BT plan days to better fit your schedule (at least for the Silver level). Are you hiring a coach? I would pick a plan from either source with the flexibility and challenge you need and stick to it. Either will work just fine. Do the work and you will be fine; I wouldn't overthink it.  Good luck.

2013-11-03 8:41 AM
in reply to: Buckshot

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Subject: RE: Plans? Plans?!?!!? Plans.
Thanks,
No, I do not consider to use a coach. Should I?
2013-11-04 11:00 AM
in reply to: trig

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Subject: RE: Plans? Plans?!?!!? Plans.
Originally posted by trig

Thanks,
No, I do not consider to use a coach. Should I?


I say yes! Ha! I guess I'm biased, but seriously, a coach can give you a training plan that is specific to your schedule, fitness level, and race goals. No second guessing your workouts or training. For both my IM's I hired a coach, and now days I have a coach just for triathlon training in general.

I get clients who hire me to finish an Ironman, and then they stop coaching after that. It's very common. I just had a gal finish IMFL this weekend! Exciting stuff!





2013-11-04 4:09 PM
in reply to: KSH

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Subject: RE: Plans? Plans?!?!!? Plans.
My opinion after this racing season is that the faster someone jumps into "going long" the more important external coaching, formal or informal, is to success. I would not have had the season I did except for the informal (AKA free) coaching I got on various areas.

Along with the coaching I got, I've increasingly made use of data analysis, both in after-the-fact and predictive mode. TP's Performance Chart is a great tool especially when you use past data to plot future workout TSS and use it to plan the periods in your training and possibly narrow down the chance of peaking at the right time.

As for paying for a coach, its a question of budget. Until the personal records stop rolling in, I probably wont' feel the pressure to redirect racing, gear and maintenance $$$ (but maybe I should...).
2013-11-04 4:27 PM
in reply to: FranzZemen

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Subject: RE: Plans? Plans?!?!!? Plans.
Originally posted by FranzZemen

My opinion after this racing season is that the faster someone jumps into "going long" the more important external coaching, formal or informal, is to success. I would not have had the season I did except for the informal (AKA free) coaching I got on various areas.

Along with the coaching I got, I've increasingly made use of data analysis, both in after-the-fact and predictive mode. TP's Performance Chart is a great tool especially when you use past data to plot future workout TSS and use it to plan the periods in your training and possibly narrow down the chance of peaking at the right time.

As for paying for a coach, its a question of budget. Until the personal records stop rolling in, I probably wont' feel the pressure to redirect racing, gear and maintenance $$$ (but maybe I should...).



The TSS feature of TP is only as good as the data that is being put into it. Are the HR zones right? Have you done testing or are you using 220-your age? Do you have a power meter and are you zones accurate? (The general "you", not YOU in particular.)

I only mention that because people in general (not necessarily you), need to understand that. You might also have to go in and give swim workouts a score manually. If you do this, you should be consistent about the score you give them.

Just something to think about.





2013-11-04 4:32 PM
in reply to: KSH

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Subject: RE: Plans? Plans?!?!!? Plans.
Originally posted by KSH

Originally posted by FranzZemen

My opinion after this racing season is that the faster someone jumps into "going long" the more important external coaching, formal or informal, is to success. I would not have had the season I did except for the informal (AKA free) coaching I got on various areas.

Along with the coaching I got, I've increasingly made use of data analysis, both in after-the-fact and predictive mode. TP's Performance Chart is a great tool especially when you use past data to plot future workout TSS and use it to plan the periods in your training and possibly narrow down the chance of peaking at the right time.

As for paying for a coach, its a question of budget. Until the personal records stop rolling in, I probably wont' feel the pressure to redirect racing, gear and maintenance $$$ (but maybe I should...).



The TSS feature of TP is only as good as the data that is being put into it. Are the HR zones right? Have you done testing or are you using 220-your age? Do you have a power meter and are you zones accurate? (The general "you", not YOU in particular.)

I only mention that because people in general (not necessarily you), need to understand that. You might also have to go in and give swim workouts a score manually. If you do this, you should be consistent about the score you give them.

Just something to think about.






Agree with you on the Zones testing. I'm still tweaking that. For instance, I found that I believed my zones were much lower than they really are - only once I really pushed monitoring HR and using that data while running did I realize I have higher potential. (I thought my Zone 3 was limited to around 129, but its closer to 135.

I use the Mio Global watch for HR, which works in the water. So no guessing the TSS.
2013-11-05 9:28 AM
in reply to: FranzZemen

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Subject: RE: Plans? Plans?!?!!? Plans.
FWIW...I'm finding great success by using the 36 week training plan below....you can tweek it to fit your schedule as needed.

http://www.trifuel.com/triathlon/ironman-workouts/

2013-11-05 10:47 AM
in reply to: FranzZemen

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Subject: RE: Plans? Plans?!?!!? Plans.
Originally posted by FranzZemen

Originally posted by KSH

Originally posted by FranzZemen

My opinion after this racing season is that the faster someone jumps into "going long" the more important external coaching, formal or informal, is to success. I would not have had the season I did except for the informal (AKA free) coaching I got on various areas.

Along with the coaching I got, I've increasingly made use of data analysis, both in after-the-fact and predictive mode. TP's Performance Chart is a great tool especially when you use past data to plot future workout TSS and use it to plan the periods in your training and possibly narrow down the chance of peaking at the right time.

As for paying for a coach, its a question of budget. Until the personal records stop rolling in, I probably wont' feel the pressure to redirect racing, gear and maintenance $$$ (but maybe I should...).



The TSS feature of TP is only as good as the data that is being put into it. Are the HR zones right? Have you done testing or are you using 220-your age? Do you have a power meter and are you zones accurate? (The general "you", not YOU in particular.)

I only mention that because people in general (not necessarily you), need to understand that. You might also have to go in and give swim workouts a score manually. If you do this, you should be consistent about the score you give them.

Just something to think about.






Agree with you on the Zones testing. I'm still tweaking that. For instance, I found that I believed my zones were much lower than they really are - only once I really pushed monitoring HR and using that data while running did I realize I have higher potential. (I thought my Zone 3 was limited to around 129, but its closer to 135.

I use the Mio Global watch for HR, which works in the water. So no guessing the TSS.


I'm curious how you have created your HR zones for the swim. I've never seen any field testing for swim HR zones. Hum.

I know for me, I only trust my HR zones if I have done blood lactate testing for them. Keep in mind too you should test every 6 months to a year, because your zones will change with improved fitness. Especially for new people. I've had some clients have their zones go up 10 BPM over the course of 6 months (went from maybe training 2-4 hours a week to 8-12 hours a week).

2013-11-05 4:49 PM
in reply to: KSH

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Subject: RE: Plans? Plans?!?!!? Plans.
Originally posted by KSH

Originally posted by FranzZemen

Originally posted by KSH

Originally posted by FranzZemen

My opinion after this racing season is that the faster someone jumps into "going long" the more important external coaching, formal or informal, is to success. I would not have had the season I did except for the informal (AKA free) coaching I got on various areas.

Along with the coaching I got, I've increasingly made use of data analysis, both in after-the-fact and predictive mode. TP's Performance Chart is a great tool especially when you use past data to plot future workout TSS and use it to plan the periods in your training and possibly narrow down the chance of peaking at the right time.

As for paying for a coach, its a question of budget. Until the personal records stop rolling in, I probably wont' feel the pressure to redirect racing, gear and maintenance $$$ (but maybe I should...).



The TSS feature of TP is only as good as the data that is being put into it. Are the HR zones right? Have you done testing or are you using 220-your age? Do you have a power meter and are you zones accurate? (The general "you", not YOU in particular.)

I only mention that because people in general (not necessarily you), need to understand that. You might also have to go in and give swim workouts a score manually. If you do this, you should be consistent about the score you give them.

Just something to think about.






Agree with you on the Zones testing. I'm still tweaking that. For instance, I found that I believed my zones were much lower than they really are - only once I really pushed monitoring HR and using that data while running did I realize I have higher potential. (I thought my Zone 3 was limited to around 129, but its closer to 135.

I use the Mio Global watch for HR, which works in the water. So no guessing the TSS.


I'm curious how you have created your HR zones for the swim. I've never seen any field testing for swim HR zones. Hum.

I know for me, I only trust my HR zones if I have done blood lactate testing for them. Keep in mind too you should test every 6 months to a year, because your zones will change with improved fitness. Especially for new people. I've had some clients have their zones go up 10 BPM over the course of 6 months (went from maybe training 2-4 hours a week to 8-12 hours a week).




Trial and error, and not too scientific at that. But generally, for example, is that my Zone 3 top end is about 5 BPM higher than what I can swim for about 40 minutes and come out fairly tired. If I'm close then that's good enough, because close and consistent is better than no idea at all.

I think the trouble with swimming is that BPM vs performance is hampered by it being so technical. You can be in zone 3 and never go anywhere. It's harder to fail on the run and on the bike.
2013-11-07 11:25 AM
in reply to: KSH

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Subject: RE: Plans? Plans?!?!!? Plans.
Originally posted by KSH

Originally posted by trig

Thanks,
No, I do not consider to use a coach. Should I?


I say yes! Ha! I guess I'm biased, but seriously, a coach can give you a training plan that is specific to your schedule, fitness level, and race goals. No second guessing your workouts or training. For both my IM's I hired a coach, and now days I have a coach just for triathlon training in general.

I get clients who hire me to finish an Ironman, and then they stop coaching after that. It's very common. I just had a gal finish IMFL this weekend! Exciting stuff!


I guess coach is better than just a plan but I believe it will not fit my budget
BTW, should it be a local or online coach?


2013-11-07 11:28 AM
in reply to: soretaint

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Subject: RE: Plans? Plans?!?!!? Plans.
Originally posted by soretaint

FWIW...I'm finding great success by using the 36 week training plan below....you can tweek it to fit your schedule as needed.

http://www.trifuel.com/triathlon/ironman-workouts/




Thanks, I am reading it now.
2013-11-07 6:59 PM
in reply to: trig

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Subject: RE: Plans? Plans?!?!!? Plans.
I used the Be Iron Fit book 2 times now, you can manually adjust the days but you will want to keep the basic structure the same.
As far as coaching, what are your goals?
If it's to finish and have a decent performance and your good about being consistent with your workouts than you probably don't need one.
If it's to squeeze every last possible minute out of your IM, than it will probably be helpful to have a coach.
Next year is my 3rd IM and I will probably get a coach since my goals for that race are getting more difficult to obtain with generic training.

A few things to keep in mind if you train from a generic plan,
Listen to your body, the book doesn't know how you feel.
Consistency is key!!! But missing a couple workouts will not make or break it.
Don't forget to practice nutrition. Have backup plans for race day, your stomach could react different since none of the training lasts as long as the race.
2013-11-10 7:08 AM
in reply to: Rover24

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Subject: RE: Plans? Plans?!?!!? Plans.
I just started reading the Be Iron Fit book as well. so appreciate this post and comments. I was also wondering about the advanced plan in that book. I train HARD and have no problem getting the workouts in but my schedule is a little different than most triathletes. I will be doing my LONG bike rides DURING the week. They will most likely be on Wednesdays or Fridays. However, my long run will not be until Saturday or Sunday.
Is this something that will really kill me in the "long run" (AKA on race day). I won't always be doing my long bike and long run on
back-to-back days due to scheduling conflicts. This worries me a great deal for some reason.

I have done the HIM distance NO PROBLEM and am a very strong runner but lets be honest---the run for the Ironman distance is
like nothing I've ever done!!! This is my first time and I just want to be prepared.

I would love to hire a coach and in fact, I have my ideal coach picked out. However, with my race fees, hotels, equipment, etc.
over this past year and into next my husband is just not on board with me spending that money! I envy those who can. I am
going to still try to convince him over the next few months but looking like I'll be on my own for my first IM. Good news is that
I am a very seasoned triathlete with 8 plus years under my belt and I have a very solid Tri/Running Club that will be
there with me through the entire journey (but I am the ONLY one taking on the IM this year).

Thanks for the feedback and I hope everyone has a great training season!

====================
Mom of 3 beautiful girls (10, 7 & 3)
Three time 5150 National Age Group Qualfier
Multiple Podium finishes in AG at Spring and Olympic Distance
Five time Marathon Finisher
Ironman 70.3 Finisher 2013
2013-11-10 5:40 PM
in reply to: midwesttrimom

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Subject: RE: Plans? Plans?!?!!? Plans.
I used the advanced plan both times, it's very doable but I will say it was much easier the second time.
The plan doesn't have any cut back weeks during the heavy volume and I added 1, for myself I like to have it as a reset. I get some pop back in my bike and run when I do that.
I don't think doing the long bike and long run back to back makes that much difference. In fact I think it has benefits, I know I get a higher quality long run if it's not after a 100/8 brick. My schedule only allows me to do long stuff on the weekends though.
As you said the Ironman run is different, a 70.3 you can get away with nutrition that's not perfect and pacing that's not perfect. In ironman if you pace the bike wrong and don't get your nutrition right than the run will be a sufferfest.
I've never hit a wall in a 70.3 but have hit them head on in both IM's I've done.
2013-11-11 2:02 AM
in reply to: trig

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Subject: RE: Plans? Plans?!?!!? Plans.
Hi Triq,

see below of a post I made a couple of months ago after my first IM distance race - will give up some feedback on the free plans here on BT - good luck with which ever you choose!

Graham




Hey guys,

Just posting this to show how good the free plan here on BT is and to hopefully aleviate fears for anyone thinking about using it - something I couldn't find when I started thinking about using it - maybe I just didn't look hard enough!

I completed my 1st iron distance race last weekend using the free plan here on BT. A little info on me - I've no real endurance background but been doing tri's for about 4 years - a handful of sprints and olympics and 1 HIM distance before this year and 1 as part of my training. I use a older model road bike with clip on tri bars, train alone so no club or coach, have a 40hr/wk job, commute 10hrs /wk, married with a soon to be 2year old daughter.

The race was late August and I started training properly in January - well before the 20week plan as I wasn't sure I'd be able to jump straight into in. I just repeated versions of the 1st 3 weeks over to build up a good base and get me ready to start the plan in early April i think (I was also sick most of March!).

I stuck to the plan almost exactly (had to change the order of days to fit them in a bit), missed a handul (no more than 5-10) of sessions due to other factors & a couple just to get some more recovery. Nearly all the 2 a day sessions were done as back to backs, or swim in pool or lake, drive home and do the next session. I went by HR and tried to relate that directly to the RPE & it seemed to work for me. I swapped around 2 of the theme weeks (think it was wks 11&12) just to make better use of my schedule to get more swims in for that week. I did more OWS than it outlined but stuck roughly to the workout even if it was in the lake.

I had constant doubts throughout as to if I was doing enough, especially on the bike as its my weakest leg in every tri I've done!

Fast forward to race day and everything went really well for me. Swim was about bang on what I expected (1-10) without over doing it, bike went amazingly well (for me) - 6-03 (about an hour ahead of what i predicted based on training) - again never felt like I over did it and HR data confirmed this.
Run went as well as expected 4-30 - probably slower than what I'd trained at but I guess thats normal after 180km on the bike! Finished in 11-52 - way ahead of my best target and felt great throughtout (reatively speaking!)

All my logs are up to date, race report is also done, if anyone wants to look through to get an idea of how it looked in reality. I've only completed one but if anyone has any questions fell free to message me.


2013-11-11 6:36 AM
in reply to: grahamclarke_6

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Subject: RE: Plans? Plans?!?!!? Plans.
Thank you SO MUCH. I am going to look at this plan in comparison to the other two I am debating
and see what I can pull. I am with you- weak on the bike. Managed 19.2 during my HIM and felt AMAZING,
but keep mentally killing myself by thinking there is no way I will ride anywhere close to that for twice the distance.
Eeeeek.

I am one that likes to get into it and then I gain confidence through experience. Cannot wait to delve into this
training in May or so! I always keep a pretty solid base so I appreciate that feedback as well! Keep the info coming!
2013-11-11 10:17 PM
in reply to: trig

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Subject: RE: Plans? Plans?!?!!? Plans.
Coaching should go well beyond just writing the training plans. Do you feel you need to see a coach in person? Online coaches are the "norm" in triathlon. Personally with my athletes I approach them with a 360 degree view. I want to know EVERYTHING about you, because i can use that to my advantage. Look for a coach that has good communication, that is key and important for establishing a good working relationship. Some coaches have limits to how much you can contact them...I call BS. I open all lines, text, email, FB message, twitter, gmail, Skype, etc. A good coach will look at you and observe you, take notes, learn how you progress, when to push or pull you back, etc. Look into their educational background in the sport, does it go past their USAT level 1 certification?

Really word of mouth is the best way to decide who to go with.

Some things to avoid IMO with online coaches:
Limits amount of communication
Levels of coaching
Point out certifications over results
Block "cookie cutter" written plans

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