General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Bike shaking while decending Rss Feed  
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2006-07-31 12:47 PM

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Expert
944
50010010010010025
Waller County, TX
Subject: Bike shaking while decending
I completed a tri this weekend that had some serious downhill sections. These were the largest hills I had been on with my tri bike (Specialized Transition Elite).

As I was going down and gaining speed, the bike (and I) started shaking and shimmying very violently at about 25 mph. I got as fast as 31 mph and it was so bad that I thought I was going to crash. I tried to brake, but that seemed to make it worse. No way I could stay aero and had to keep the hands on the bull-horns. I somehow managed to hold it together and stayed upright. I don't mind admitting I was scared spitless.

This scenario was repeated several times during the race. I was strong on the uphills and passed many riders. It was frustrating to have them pass me back as I approached every downhill with dread and tentativeness. I watched the other riders as they passed and I noticed that they had their knees pressed inward to the top tube. I tried that and seemed to help somewhat.

You would think going downhill would be easy and fun. Not so for me. I almost couldn't sleep last night as I kept re-living the experience.

Am I doing something wrong or not doing enough? Help!


2006-07-31 12:57 PM
in reply to: #498336

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Veteran
183
100252525
Grand Rapids, MN.
Subject: RE: Bike shaking while decending
Are your wheels True and straight? You might want to check that your wheels are clamped down straight and not cocked to one side or the other. Kind of personal but are you a heavy person? I have a Fuji Aloha and I weigh about 220 lbs right now, I used to be around 265 and it seemed I was shakier then on long downhills, now it doesn't get scary until about 40 mph. Just a few thoughts for you to check out. Oh also check for frame cracks, the bike hasn't been in a crash has it? Good luck.
2006-07-31 1:10 PM
in reply to: #498336

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Expert
944
50010010010010025
Waller County, TX
Subject: RE: Bike shaking while decending
I am 5'-9" and 145 pounds. I have been fitted to the bike, have ~950 miles on it, and feel very comfortable otherwise. Good idea about the wheels, I hadn't thought of that.
2006-07-31 1:17 PM
in reply to: #498336

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Master
1718
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Loughborough, England
Subject: RE: Bike shaking while decending

Is the stem, spacers, headset and frame set tightly on the fork?  I had a problem where everything was loose (turned out to be a problem with the headset) and this caused the bike to be really unstable on descents.

2006-07-31 1:47 PM
in reply to: #498336

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Master
2314
2000100100100
Gulf Shores, AL
Subject: RE: Bike shaking while decending
Google bike shimmy. There is alot of information on it. I have experienced and its scary as hell. From what I have read it is caused by a combination of things that are unique to the bike and the rider. If I remember correctly, standing or sitting forward on the seat and bending your knees in on the top tube seemed to help. Another thing that made the problem worse was when you feel the shimmy, you tend to grip the bars harder and that makes it worse. I used these tips and it seemed to help but never eliminate the shimmy. I eventually got rid of the bike for other reasons and have never experienced the problem on any of the other 3 bikes I rode.

I found an article and am attaching it. There are alot of articles on the topic out there. Some suggest issues with the headset or bearings that you may want to look into.

Hope you can figure out how to stop it.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/shimmy.html

Edited by Manatee Express 2006-07-31 1:54 PM
2006-07-31 2:55 PM
in reply to: #498336

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Champion
10668
500050005001002525
Tacoma, Washington
Subject: RE: Bike shaking while decending
Speed wobble. Could be a slightly loose headset, or it could be a strange harmonic between the fork and front wheel at that head angle.

In any case, the immediate remedy is to clamp the top tube between your knees and just keep riding. Usually as you speed up you get past whatever harmonic and it'll calm down (but will return when you get into that speed zone again).


2006-07-31 3:00 PM
in reply to: #498336

Veteran
662
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Madison, Alabama
Subject: RE: Bike shaking while decending
I was at Lake Tahoe in June and coming off the back side of Spooner Summit, there is a nice, long section of downhills about 6 lanes wide and you can really gain some speed. I had never been over about 35 on my bike, and a co-worker of mine told me the "magic" "clamp your knees on the top tube" trick.

So, we are descending and I looked down about the time I started wobbling...about 45mph...HOLY CRAP...I clamped the top tube between my legs and covered the brakes in case I needed them. Then, we got a lake affect wind that blew me into the other lane. It was scarier than the wobble.

You should be able to just clamp your legs against the top tube and as a previous posted pointed out, there is a balance where it is not happening anymore...just drop into a lower gear and pedal your butt off and get really fast.

Kevin
2006-07-31 3:17 PM
in reply to: #498336

Expert
936
50010010010010025
Salisbury
Subject: RE: Bike shaking while decending
I get something like this on occasion if I'm coasting. As long as I'm pedaling I don't have a problem.
2006-07-31 3:31 PM
in reply to: #498336

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Champion
6962
500010005001001001001002525
Atlanta, Ga
Subject: RE: Bike shaking while decending

Clamping your knees will help with the control of the bike.

What you are experiencing is harmonics.  Right before the bike reaches a multiple of it's harmonics, it will shake like the dickins.  This is counter intuitive, but it works.  Actually release your grip on the bike.  The tighter you grip, the worse it will be.  Just relax your hands and the bike will settle into it's Harmonic.  My TP had this happen at LP on the descent and it's scary.

So relax and let it pass.  Easy to say, hard to do.

2006-07-31 9:22 PM
in reply to: #498336

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Subject: RE: Bike shaking while decending

I had that happen once last year steep hill at about 45+ mph I checked my wheels and I think it was due to the bearing in the front wheel being a little loose. I don't know about all wheels but I have Mavic Ksyrium's and they have an adjustable bearing. I adjusted them and that seemed to make a big difference.... I may have snugged a few spokes up a little as well but I'm not positive on that now.

Good luck!

2006-07-31 10:18 PM
in reply to: #498336

Veteran
182
100252525
Ocean, New Jersey
Subject: RE: Bike shaking while decending
I agree with all of the above: use your knees, lighten your grip, pray like all hell, etc. One thing I, as a guy who weighs 210 lbs., can suggest is to have your rims checked (as said earlier). I've had the same problem before on decent bikes with crappy rims. If nothing else checking the rims is cheap and easy. I'm on a Trek 5200 now and fly down hills hitting 43-45 without even trying (Big guys love going downhill...it's a gravity thing). The real problem comes when a group of deer come out of nowhere and jump right in front of you ("Guys, I have to go back to the house for a new pair of shorts...sorry.")


2006-07-31 10:43 PM
in reply to: #498336

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Master
2288
2000100100252525
Katy, TX (West of Houston)
Subject: RE: Bike shaking while decending
Yes on the headset. My wife had a loose headset and her bike would shake on downhills at speeds over 25mph. Take it to a LBS and have them look at it.
2006-08-01 6:55 AM
in reply to: #498336

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Elite
2527
200050025
Armpit of Ontario
Subject: RE: Bike shaking while decending

Speed wobbles suck! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_wobble

They're bad on a bicycle, but my first experience with them was when I first started riding a motorcycle in my early 20's - first time ever, hit about 120km/h and the front end wanted to shake itself loose!

 

2006-08-01 7:21 AM
in reply to: #498336

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Veteran
169
1002525
Derry, NH
Subject: RE: Bike shaking while decending
check your headset, 90% of the time it's that the headset is loose.
2006-08-01 7:25 AM
in reply to: #498336

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Pro
4311
20002000100100100
Texas
Subject: RE: Bike shaking while decending
Another thought: if you remove your front wheel for transport and don't screw it down tight when reattaching the wheel this can cause shakes & vibration as well when you start to pick up speed.
2006-08-01 10:28 AM
in reply to: #499065

Elite
3650
200010005001002525
Laurium, MI
Subject: RE: Bike shaking while decending

do check all the mechanical first.  I do suspect harmoncis though.  Especially since it had a certain speed it got bad at and it lessened on either side of it.  I've had my road bike above 50 plenty of times.  A few months ago, I had it out going down a 2 mile 10% hill.  It was the first time I had hit those speeds with the clip ons attached.  Apparently, they altered the resonant frequency of the front end just enough to make 50 mph the sweet spot.  As I was speeding up, I was in the bars but decided I'd rather have brake control, so I went to the drops instead.  Two seconds later she started to VIOLENTLY oscillate.  We're talking front wheel covering two or three feet side to side.  Damn near lost it.  I clamped my knees on the top tube and loosened the grip on the bars while hitting the brakes.

When I got home, I took the bars off and she calmed back down.  No more problems.

Since harmonics are affected by even small changes in weight distribution and resonant frequencies of individual parts, you could probably change the harmonic response by something as simple as a different style of bull horns, or weighted bar end plugs.

 



2010-05-21 8:42 PM
in reply to: #498336

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Master
1841
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Sendai, Japan
Subject: RE: Bike shaking while decending
I experienced the dreaded speed wobble yesterday while doing about 47 kph on a hill I've done lots of times before.  It scared the heck out of me.   After finding this thread (worth a read if you've never had the problem and want to know how to behave if it does happen), I checked the headset and found the main bolt (top cap) was about a quarter turn loose.   I'm hoping that will cure the problem.  

Question: could the wobble have caused any damage?   
2010-05-21 8:46 PM
in reply to: #498336

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Pro
4828
2000200050010010010025
The Land of Ice and Snow
Subject: RE: Bike shaking while decending
I have only experienced the dreaded speed wobble once. Scary stuff!

Someone told me about hugging the frame with my knees...and I have not had a problem since.
I actually adore descending!!
2010-05-21 9:35 PM
in reply to: #498336

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Master
2538
200050025
Albuquerque
Subject: RE: Bike shaking while decending
Yikes, sounds like what we get, called death wobble, with our Jeeps. No fun for sure.
2010-05-21 9:43 PM
in reply to: #498336

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Resident Curmudgeon
25290
50005000500050005000100100252525
The Road Back
Gold member
Subject: RE: Bike shaking while decending
Yes, the dreaded death wobble, powerful enough to resurrect four-year-old threads.

Cool
2010-05-22 12:37 AM
in reply to: #2875230


73
2525
Subject: RE: Bike shaking while decending
the bear - 2010-05-21 7:43 PM Yes, the dreaded death wobble, powerful enough to resurrect four-year-old threads.

Cool


LOL!!!!!  For noobs that may read this.  If clamping the top tube doesn't take care of the wobble, drop one pedal down and weight it while leaning against the top tube.  That changes (drops) the center of gravity and usually kills the wobble.  I can't clamp the top tube on my compact frame so dropping a pedal and leaning that leg on the top tube is the only choice for me.


2010-05-22 5:33 AM
in reply to: #2875157

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Champion
6503
50001000500
NOVA - Ironic for an Endurance Athlete
Subject: RE: Bike shaking while decending
I commonly ride no handed to stretch, take nutrition, drink, to show off, etc.  At 19.8 mph and over, by wheel goes into an immediate shimmy.

I have only had the downhill shimmy at 43 mph.  I only when that fast once.  After being pretty shaken (no pun intended) I have come to think that 42 is fast enough for any descent.
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