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2014-02-03 7:58 AM

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Subject: Supination
I've been having a lot of tightness on the outsides of my legs: sides of my calves, IT bands, and glutes. I've also have some calf strains that are on the anterior side. Based on photos of my running (see attached file, if I've done that correctly) and by looking at the way my shoes wear, it seems that I am a supinator, meaning that I run on the outside of my heels and feet. (I believe this is the opposite of pronation.)

Does anyone know what the best running shoes are for supinators? I have been using Asics Kayanos and Noosas for years. I'm hoping there are other options that can improve this situation. I wonder if I need orthotics, but I don't know how or where I would get good ones. I don't care about the cost; I want to be pain and injury free!

All thoughts welcome.



(supination.JPG)



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2014-02-03 8:30 AM
in reply to: halfironmike

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Subject: RE: Supination
I've also been told that I run like that....never actually notice but in most pictures I do appear to be supinating a bit, pronating in a few, about to fall flat on my face in others! The wear pattern on my shoes suggests I do supinate. A PT I saw for chronic hamstring/piriformis issues advised me to avoid motion control shoes, as they are meant to correct what most people do, which is pronation. In my case they also tend to be overly stiff, since I'm very lightweight, and this creates other issues with muscle fatigue from feet to glutes and lower back, since I can't flex the shoe enough to move through my normal stride. I've had better luck with neutral type shoes, mainly the lower end Saucony Grid series. In my case, cheaper shoes actually work better for me! I can find durable shoes that suit me for $50-60. Tons of padding and motion control features tend to jack up the price of the shoe.

Another thing to consider is stretching and strengthening. Your stride may not be "bad" if that is just the way your body works, and may not in fact be the source of your discomfort. In my case it was not stride per se causing the problem, but muscle imbalances and scar tissue from some previous traumatic injuries, plus inappropriate shoes. PT's are probably best qualified to advise on this kind of stuff.
2014-02-03 11:45 AM
in reply to: halfironmike

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Subject: RE: Supination

 

Do you have a LRS that does gait analysis?

They can put you in a neutral shoe video your stride then correct it with the appropriate type of shoe.

Each time you change shoes “revideo” to see the change to your gait.

Try different manufactures and models within the type of shoe you need until you find what works best and what feels best.

2014-02-03 2:28 PM
in reply to: 1_Mad_Madone

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Subject: RE: Supination
Thanks to both of you for the thoughts. The LRS in my area doesn't do what I consider rigorous gait analysis, but they ask you to run 20 yards or so and they then try to tell you what might be a good fit. The last time I went there they seemed to say that my stride was "normal" but my guess is that we all shift things a bit as we get more tired further into a long run.

I think part of this will simply be a matter of experimentation as well. I don't want to buy three or four sets of running shoes right now (I like to spend my money on the bike!) but this seems worth the fine tuning.
2014-02-03 5:59 PM
in reply to: halfironmike

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Subject: RE: Supination
Beware the LRS--not all of those people are properly trained. I actually was wearing motion control shoes because someone at a running shoe in Singapore recommended them. They didn't do a video analysis but did watch you run on a treadmill both barefoot and in neutral shoes. The place was recommended by a runner friend there and I decided to try it due to the chronic issues mentioned before--she raved about how they'd really helped her out. The result was that the shoes they recommended (of course more expensive than my normal ones) caused so many issues with muscle tightness in my hips and back that I was barely able to complete my next race. Even a shoe that "corrects" what appears to be "wrong" with your stride may actually be counterproductive, if it worsens mechanical imbalances that your unorthodox stride may have been compensating for, or causes other problems.
2014-02-04 2:44 PM
in reply to: Hot Runner

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Subject: RE: Supination
Hot Runner - you make a good point. The people at my LRS are super friendly, but I'm not sure they have the technical knowledge needed. I guess that's why I love crowd-sourcing ideas on this site. A lot of collective wisdom here.


2014-02-05 10:10 AM
in reply to: halfironmike

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Subject: RE: Supination

Looking at you run is NOT what you need.

Videotaped and then single frame advance to see what correction you need is the only way to go.

Fleetfeet, Lukes Locker and Fort Worth Running Company do this and it works.

Not sure where you are located but call around and if you have to drive an hour or two to get a good analysis it is worth it.

2014-02-06 7:31 AM
in reply to: Mikejohnson89

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Subject: RE: Supination
I am bow-legged, so I am a severe supinator and always will be. That said, the only shoe that works for me is the Asics Nimbus line. Have been using them for 8+ years now and just upgrade to the new model year when I need a new pair. Been fitted twice at 2 different running stores and both came back with the same thing...the Nimbus or the Mizuno Wave Rider. The Mizuno one just did not feel good to me.
2014-02-06 4:42 PM
in reply to: chichitao

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Subject: RE: Supination
This is helpful. I've been running in Asics (either Kayano or Noosa) for awhile and if I try the Nimbus it will at least be in the same family.
2014-08-16 1:45 PM
in reply to: halfironmike

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Subject: RE: Supination
New to the site. I am also in this boat. I ended up getting custom orthotics (dang expensive!) and switched to Asics Cumulus (more performance neutral) and anytime I run any distance at 8min pace or slower I have no resulting issues. Sprints & Interval work, I just get sore, but more so from the impact & intensity.

Where are you now with the issue?
2014-08-18 2:56 PM
in reply to: TJHammer

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Subject: RE: Supination
Originally posted by TJHammer

New to the site. I am also in this boat. I ended up getting custom orthotics (dang expensive!) and switched to Asics Cumulus (more performance neutral) and anytime I run any distance at 8min pace or slower I have no resulting issues. Sprints & Interval work, I just get sore, but more so from the impact & intensity.

Where are you now with the issue?


I ended up switching to the Asics Nimbus, which is also fairly neutral. But in the end I think the main culprit for me was super tight IT bands. I now roll them religiously with a fairly hard trigger point roller. Usually twice a day. Really staying on top of that has helped. I am also using much more of a mid-foot strike than I was six months ago. It doesn't come naturally to me, but too much heel-striking seemed to be causing me to supinate even more.


2014-08-18 3:12 PM
in reply to: halfironmike

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Subject: RE: Supination
You're right, that wonderful trifecta of overstride/heel strike/ supination = huge culprit. Glad to hear things are improved
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