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Why DONT you have a coach? (please vote)
OptionResults
I'd like one but it's too expensive87 Votes - [53.7%]
What do I need a coach for?31 Votes - [19.14%]
I enjoy writing my own plans22 Votes - [13.58%]
I use a pre-made plan12 Votes - [7.41%]
I use a custom training plan but not a coach (like BT Gold)3 Votes - [1.85%]
Coaches are dumb7 Votes - [4.32%]

2014-02-28 5:55 AM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Why DONT you have a coach? (please vote)
Originally posted by jonnyo

Marc, i see you are from quebec!!! i miss home!!!

So, i have to say your message make me smile, i would most likely take on the challenge of your fictive situation because it s sound FUN...and i m a competitive person, i love challenge!!! But i would take it because it s a challenge. I m not driven by the money.

That said, people don't request me to put myself into this situation of paying on performance. My coaching, my pricing as never come as a issue for a age groupers. It comes as a issue for younger junior or up and comer pros. To those, i work deal, something will work for free for a long time because i been on of those kids that have took risk and committed to excellence, to the process and made all the sacrifice to get a chance at been a professional. I recognize that attitude in someone and i m ready to help and give back.

But for age group. it is still a business. I might not be the most affordable coach for a beginner but a beginner does not need me and my expertise to finish is first triathlon, or make it to the finish line of a ironman. I attract athletes that are at a point were triathlon is a relative priority in there life. It s not there first priority but a big one none the less...... making to kona, breaking 10h... or 9h in a ironman...going under 2h at olympic distance...etc.

For those people, it s my full time job to make it happen, i m committed to excellence, i travel to races to support them, i have a lot of expense ahead of time,,,,bike fitting, camera analysis, wind tunnel trips, time invested in nutrition analysis, reviewing workout, data, hitting them with a stick because they aren't listening etc. I deliver the work, i commit to offer a professional service and i m DRIVEN by my athlete accomplishing and succeeding at there races. But as there is a lot out of my control in someones way to execute the training and on race day....not chock mentally, self sabotage, flat tire, and a million other factor, i would not be interested in coaching base on performance for age group athlete. But, i m happy to be judge about my competency base on athlete results. Because i sincerely believe that the number 1 criteria for evaluating if a coach is good or not is...RESULTS OF HIS ATHLETES. you don't hire me to be your friend, you hire my to give you a good hard look, sometimes say things that aren't fun to say but my job is to make you faster. It can be a uncomfortable and painful process at time. But you are paying for the process. So when you get to the race...i have ALREADY delivered the goods. The race is the ''easy part'' and the part that is out of my control.

But as i said, it as never came up that my pricing was a issue, my athlete pay happily and stick with me for many years. They hire me because they know me as a athlete or a coach and know the high performance/excellence mentality that i bring. That is the kind of relationship i strive on. we commit to the process and work our off to make great things happen.



i have to say this was a interesting thread..... fun to read!



Jonathan, maybe you'll be back home for the 70.3 WC this year ? If so, beers are on me. It should be fun. Rumor has it Gomez will race. I have heard some cool people are coming to town to be part of the race logistics....I have a feeling this is going to be a very special event

Your comments make sense. I appreciate the "poor (broke) new pro". Makes sense. I always wondered how they could afford Paulo :-)

I also agree that many AGers can afford that kind of money. I hear ridiculous amounts being thrown out of what a coach is worth, yet people are riding $5k bikes with zipps. I have no problem with nice bikes (actually I do, my problem is I like them too much). But a good coach for a year will get you faster than zipps. But we all have our perceptions of value.

The more I think about it, I think my plan is to starve out the bad coaches and have the good ones thrive :-)
My bet is you would do well with my fictitious example.






Edited by marcag 2014-02-28 5:57 AM


2014-02-28 6:54 AM
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Subject: RE: Why DONT you have a coach? (please vote)

Good points Marc and Jonathan!

Perception drives this and many other issues in life.

Many triathletes perceive that they can do just as good a job without a coach (some can), but they do not perceive that they can be fast on an entry level tri bike.

It's silly, as for most of us spending the money on a coach and some swim lessons would get more speed and enjoyment out of the sport. I do cringe when I hear people say "I'm just in it for the fun and I don't need a coach", because it implies those with coaches are NOT in it for the fun.

*I* am in it ONLY for the fun. I'm in my 8th year in the sport and will have 5 untouched years and 3 coached years. they were all fun in different ways.

For *me*, life is too busy to not have a coach and the money is not a deciding factor. I think I hired a coach to help me manage my crazy schedule with training and get more bang for the buck.

BTW, my best result in an IM came without a coach. My best placing in a race came with a coach.

So, there you have it, lol.

 

PS, a coach like Jonathan or Marc's previous coach, or my coach are at the very, very, very pointy end of the coaching elite and I do not think lumping them in with the coaches who just did the basic USAT level 1 coaching certification is fair. i.e.; there are coaches and there are coaches!



Edited by Fred D 2014-02-28 6:55 AM
2014-04-23 4:01 PM
in reply to: lisac957


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Subject: RE: Why DONT you have a coach? (please vote)
Originally posted by lisac957

Originally posted by ratherbeswimming

Originally posted by marcag Why can't this work ? Why can't the coach be paid based on results ?

My big concern with this (from a coach's perspective) is - there are many variables I cannot control.

I would need to trust an athlete a great deal to follow my plan, and to report to me exactly what they were doing, how they were feeling, etc. Looking at your uploaded data is only part of the picture.

Also, race day performance becomes huge - what if you drink 4 beers the night before, then have to stop to poop 4 times on the bike? What if you were late to the start? What if you flat or blow out a tire? What if we get you what will likely get you to KQ, but more athletes than anticipated show up and blow your time out of the water? What if the weather is drastically different than planned? What if your bike shoes are stolen out of transition? Is that my fault as a coach? Should I not receive the bonus because I got you to the start line ready, but some outside factor (or the athlete themself) cause it not to go according to plan?

 

I think all of these situations can be mitigated by proper race preparation (including mental training). Not sure how they would factor into a "bonus" payment type of scheme if you are going solely for time or KQ or similar. But for example if the goal is to "finish" and an athlete gets a flat and quits the race, they are likely not prepped properly, either with tools or mental toughness or both.




while I disagree that its the coach's fault for not properly prepping the athlete if they get a flat and quit (cue Norman Stadler Kona melt down, or Dave Scott in between Konas) other than the blown tire, these seem pretty silly reasons why the coach shouldn't be held accountable, and even the blown tire can be written into the contract. if you are paid on results, the results can be measured by speed and/or overall performance and written into the contract. don't promise kona, promise speed that statistically shows you should get to kona. If the weather changes, it will affect everyone. If I am late starting (as if), but if I am, that can be measured. a lot more fast people showed up then expected - I can measure how fast I became. My shoes were stolen - act of god that can be written in the contract. I worked my tail off and then got buzzed that night before, come on now. I would pay $300 a month and work my tail off for the coach if I knew the coach knew what they were doing, but having no accountability for the 1,000 of coaches is why I don't hire a coach. chances of throwing money down the drain are pretty darn good. I did hire a coach three years ago, and they just disappeared after taking the set-up fee. Tried again two years ago!! Every email was full of and !!! it was clear she never practice reading comprehension!! just said the same thing every email!!! GREAT JOB!! You are so awesome!!! you must be getting some great looking legs!!! This week .....!!! have fun!!! it was clear she didn't pay attention to what I did the week before and it was a one size fits all email!!!!!

I would love a coach, but finding a good one is so very time consuming with too many expensive false starts.
2014-04-24 7:09 AM
in reply to: gotbitten

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Subject: RE: Why DONT you have a coach? (please vote)
Originally posted by gotbitten
I would pay $300 a month and work my tail off for the coach if I knew the coach knew what they were doing, but having no accountability for the 1,000 of coaches is why I don't hire a coach. chances of throwing money down the drain are pretty darn good.


If you really want to improve, are willing to work your tail off, and recognize the value of top notch coaching, PM me. There is a list of 5 or 6 coaches that are excellent. Some are on ST, some here, some on both. These guys will take MOPers to FOPers but you have to be willing to work for it.
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