WTC strong arm tactics?
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2014-03-06 10:22 AM |
Member 205 | Subject: WTC strong arm tactics? Responding to a previous thread brought this to mind On a long trail run, a woman who promotes small, local races (30-200 participants) shared two stories about run-ins with the WTC. On the Wednesday prior to a 70.3 they were putting on, her outfit received a letter from the WTC informing them that they were not allowed to use the term "half" to describe their race, and that if they used the term "half" (not "half-iron" or any mention of Ironman -- just "half") they would be slapped with a lawsuit. The promoter was stuck with t-shirts and race merc that they could not use for fear of legal action. Moreover (as she told it) the promoter found out from other promoters that they had also received similar letters from the WTC THE WEEK BEFORE THEIR RACE, without time for them to adjust any of their race paraphernalia. She was of the opinion that the WTC did this purposefully so as to create hardship for local promoters. Also she (the promoter) used to put on a 70.3 triathlon that used part (not all) of the IMKY course, with athletes training for the WTC race in mind. Then, one of the local municipalities along the course refused to support the race. They also had received a letter from the WTC, on the week of the race, saying they could not support other races on the course if they wanted to continue to have IMKY. The promoter was forced to move the course, including the swim and the run, just days before the race. Now, a few things. First of all, this is hearsay, although I heard it directly from the promoter involved. Let me emphasize that this is a small promoter with no aspiration to get big or compete with the WTC. Secondly, I understand that the WTC is a business that has developed (and very successful branded) a product, and has a right to benefit from this product and defend it if necessary. However, the timing of their actions with these small local promoters sure makes it seem like they are trying to squelch promoters that put on long course triathlons, and not just defend their product or brand. Has anyone else heard any stories like this? Is the word "half" really a protected designation w/r to triathlons? |
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2014-03-06 10:26 AM in reply to: Batcheldor |
2014-03-06 10:39 AM in reply to: Batcheldor |
over a barrier | Subject: RE: WTC strong arm tactics? There were similar stores when WTC took over the Munice race. They were trying to add a ' no race zone' within X amount of days pre/post of their race which would have basically cancelled an entire small race series. Huge thread on ST from a few years. I try to limit my association w/ WTC races and I don't buy anything w/ IM logos on it. I like the 'little' guy in races. Personally preference. |
2014-03-06 12:33 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
Subject: RE: WTC strong arm tactics? |
2014-03-06 12:34 PM in reply to: Jason N |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: WTC strong arm tactics? Originally posted by Jason N Originally posted by Left Brain Nigerian 70.3 scam WTC is going to sue you for slander. I think it's Libel. |
2014-03-06 12:37 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
Regular 1161 Hamilton, IL | Subject: RE: WTC strong arm tactics? Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by Jason N Originally posted by Left Brain Nigerian 70.3 scam WTC is going to sue you for slander. I think it's Libel. Ok, fine, WTC is LIBEL to sue you for slander. Geesh. (it's slow here today) |
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2014-03-06 12:51 PM in reply to: Danno77 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: WTC strong arm tactics? Originally posted by Danno77 Originally posted by Left Brain Ok, fine, WTC is LIBEL to sue you for slander. Geesh. (it's slow here today) Originally posted by Jason N Originally posted by Left Brain Nigerian 70.3 scam WTC is going to sue you for slander. I think it's Libel.
That's hurtful....... I have feelings. |
2014-03-06 1:01 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
Master 3888 Overland Park, KS | Subject: RE: WTC strong arm tactics? Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by Danno77 Originally posted by Left Brain Ok, fine, WTC is LIBEL to sue you for slander. Geesh. (it's slow here today) Originally posted by Jason N Originally posted by Left Brain Nigerian 70.3 scam WTC is going to sue you for slander. I think it's Libel.
That's hurtful....... I have feelings. That literally even hurts my feelings. |
2014-03-06 1:54 PM in reply to: reecealan |
Member 1748 Exton, PA | Subject: RE: WTC strong arm tactics? Originally posted by reecealan Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by Danno77 Originally posted by Left Brain Ok, fine, WTC is LIBEL to sue you for slander. Geesh. (it's slow here today) Originally posted by Jason N Originally posted by Left Brain Nigerian 70.3 scam WTC is going to sue you for slander. I think it's Libel.
That's hurtful....... I have feelings. That literally even hurts my feelings. Ironically I empahise that. |
2014-03-06 2:12 PM in reply to: mike761 |
Veteran 2842 Austin, Texas | Subject: RE: WTC strong arm tactics? "The distance that shall not be named" race series was all set to kick off this year, but they got a letter from JK Rowling's publisher threatening legal action. Damned if you do, damned if you don't...
Matt (still chuckling over libel) |
2014-03-06 4:42 PM in reply to: mcmanusclan5 |
Extreme Veteran 1190 Silicon Valley | Subject: RE: WTC strong arm tactics? Can I say FerrumVir or would I be sued by the Pope? |
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2014-03-06 5:02 PM in reply to: Stuartap |
Extreme Veteran 890 Sterling | Subject: RE: WTC strong arm tactics? Originally posted by Stuartap Can I say FerrumVir or would I be sued by the Pope?
I think you are good. The pope is into steeling it seems. Robbing dead priests of their crucifixes... LoL |
2014-03-06 5:14 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
Member 1293 Pearland,Tx | Subject: RE: WTC strong arm tactics? Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by Danno77 Originally posted by Left Brain Ok, fine, WTC is LIBEL to sue you for slander. Geesh. (it's slow here today) Originally posted by Jason N Originally posted by Left Brain Nigerian 70.3 scam WTC is going to sue you for slander. I think it's Libel.
That's hurtful....... I have feelings. (rolling.gif) (lol.gif) Attachments ---------------- rolling.gif (28KB - 0 downloads) lol.gif (81KB - 0 downloads) |
2014-03-06 7:01 PM in reply to: strykergt |
258 | Subject: RE: WTC strong arm tactics? So when is Ozzy Osbourne and Marvel Comics going to sue the WTC for the use of the word Ironman? |
2014-03-07 6:43 AM in reply to: Batcheldor |
631 | Subject: RE: WTC strong arm tactics? I have always wonder about the use of the term "Ironmen" and the city of Wheeling WV. They have a ceromony at the begining of ther 1/2 marathon where they honor the "ironmen" which are people that have run in all of the races (it use to be a 20k). I believe that the Wheeling race predates the WTC event by a couple of years, but I don't know when Wheeling started calling the participants "ironmen". Wheeling also had a semi pro football team in the 60's named the "Ironmen". So that term is associated with the city much longer than the WTC. FYI... Historically Wheeling would be a steel iron producing city located about an hour from Pittsburgh. The race itself was a big deal at one point being the 20k national championship. If you like hills it is a fun race. |
2014-03-07 10:47 AM in reply to: 0 |
Expert 2098 Ontario Canada | Subject: RE: WTC strong arm tactics? I believe the new Half in Niagara falls On. put on by Multisport a fairly large promoter Had to find another name for there new event because of similar action, although they were given lots of prior advanced warning. So they had a name the event contest, I believe Niagara Falls Barrelman was the winner. Edited by RRH_88 2014-03-07 10:52 AM |
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2014-03-07 11:16 AM in reply to: 0 |
Subject: RE: WTC strong arm tactics? Originally posted by RRH_88 I believe the new Half in Niagara falls On. put on by Multisport a fairly large promoter Had to find another name for there new event because of similar action, although they were given lots of prior advanced warning. So they had a name the event contest, I believe Niagara Falls Barrelman was the winner. Accdg to the RD on that thread, the issue was the word "iron" not "half", on the first page of the thread. I still have suspicions that WTC could have any rights to the word "half" as it applies to triathlon. Ironman (although I believe it licenses it), 140.6, 70.3, yes, but not half. Here's a good (old) article that doesn't really answer the question, LOL. http://www.slowtwitch.com/mainheadings/features/ironmark.html Edited by ChrisM 2014-03-07 11:16 AM |
2014-03-07 11:35 AM in reply to: 0 |
Master 2406 Bellevue, WA | Subject: RE: WTC strong arm tactics? Originally posted by Batcheldor Responding to a previous thread brought this to mind On a long trail run, a woman who promotes small, local races (30-200 participants) shared two stories about run-ins with the WTC. On the Wednesday prior to a 70.3 they were putting on, her outfit received a letter from the WTC informing them that they were not allowed to use the term "half" to describe their race, and that if they used the term "half" (not "half-iron" or any mention of Ironman -- just "half") they would be slapped with a lawsuit. ... Is the word "half" really a protected designation w/r to triathlons? No. Half is not a trademarked term, nor is "half distance". Races have been called "half distance" and "full distance" for many years. Any quick Internet search will find dozens of races using the phrase "half distance" regarding their triathlon. The term "half" has been applied to triathlons in similar fashion to marathons. When it comes to trademark law, an owner of a trademark like "Ironman" or "Ironman 70.3" has the right to protect their trademark. Often this takes the form of threatening letters or actual lawsuits. In a court of law, such things are decided based on degree of confusion a consumer may have regarding two products with similar names. If the consumer is confused by product X's name, thinking they're actually getting the trademarked product, then product X may have to change it's name. The terms "full distance" or "full course" or "long course" or "long tri" etc. cannot be confused with "Ironman", neither can "half distance", "half course", or "half triathlon" be confused with "Ironman 70.3" which are their trademarked names. People saying "Iron-distance", well, that's too close. People would confusing "Iron-distance" with "Ironman". In summary, I don't believe the stories about WTC threatening over the use of the term "half". I believe them if "Iron" is involved anywhere in the race name or literature or website or race description. And even if the WTC did send a letter, jeeze people it's just a letter. Injunctions and lawsuits are far down the line. People need to understand trademark law a bit better. WTC wouldn't win, and it wouldn't take a lot to beat them. Edited by brucemorgan 2014-03-07 11:37 AM |
2014-03-07 11:37 AM in reply to: ChrisM |
Expert 2192 Greenville, SC | Subject: RE: WTC strong arm tactics? I think they could have a case if the event doesn't also host a "full". because what is it half of? Like Rev3 and B2B both offer a Full and Half option. |
2014-03-07 11:41 AM in reply to: ChrisM |
Master 2406 Bellevue, WA | Subject: RE: WTC strong arm tactics? Originally posted by ChrisM Originally posted by RRH_88 I believe the new Half in Niagara falls On. put on by Multisport a fairly large promoter Had to find another name for there new event because of similar action, although they were given lots of prior advanced warning. So they had a name the event contest, I believe Niagara Falls Barrelman was the winner. Accdg to the RD on that thread, the issue was the word "iron" not "half", on the first page of the thread. I still have suspicions that WTC could have any rights to the word "half" as it applies to triathlon. Ironman (although I believe it licenses it), 140.6, 70.3, yes, but not half. Here's a good (old) article that doesn't really answer the question, LOL. http://www.slowtwitch.com/mainheadings/features/ironmark.html The use the term "Half REV" to describe their races. I'm sure Rev3 would laugh at any letter from the WTC telling them to stop using "Half REV". |
2014-03-07 12:13 PM in reply to: 0 |
Subject: RE: WTC strong arm tactics? Originally posted by Clempson I think they could have a case if the event doesn't also host a "full". because what is it half of? Like Rev3 and B2B both offer a Full and Half option. no. they either own (or license) half (which they don't) or they don't. It's not dependent on the race format(s). Again, the barrelman issue was expressly because they used half "iron" As to brucemorgan's last post re just a letter... actually it's just a trail running conversation about a letter, not the actual letter. Who knows how accurate it is, or whether that RD actually understood what was written, or conveyed the message properly, etc.. Although letters are written all the time, and its quetionable whether they can actually be enforced (i.e., the Specialized letter) I have no doubt that WTC's legal department is robust enough to know that any attempt to enforce "half" would be laughed out of court. WTC likes to win, but they hate to lose more. Edited by ChrisM 2014-03-07 12:17 PM |
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2014-03-07 12:21 PM in reply to: 0 |
Subject: RE: WTC strong arm tactics? Actually, here is a handy link to the WTC's own page re what marks it owns/licenses http://www.ironman.com/triathlon/legal-faq.aspx#axzz2uv8ZFzrE
From that page:
As to the list of marks it owns - note that even half ironman is a dsign only, not a word mark:
Edited by ChrisM 2014-03-07 12:23 PM |
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