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Are aero wheels more delicate?
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 2014-03-23 9:50 PM |
 119  Groton, New York |  Subject: Are aero wheels more delicate?I thought I read somewhere on one of these posts that folks were surprised that someone was using their expensive aero wheels on regular training rides, implying that a good pothole would be the end of them. Is this true? Are they really that delicate? It would seem silly to spend $2k on a wheel that might crack apart on a rough ride. |
| 2014-03-23 10:18 PM in reply to: keqwow |
Veteran 258 South dakota | Subject: RE: Are aero wheels more delicate? I think it is more of a replacement cost than a strength issue, I know I would rather bust up my stock rims than my 2k race rims |
| 2014-03-23 11:13 PM in reply to: keqwow |
Expert 2355 Madison, Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Are aero wheels more delicate? No. Watch a stress test done on an aero wheel, they going through a beating just to make it through production. As the other poster said its more of a replacement cost issue as does happen. Some go with the thought that if I am going to pay x amount of money for this wheel I will ride it as much as I can. Thats fine and dandy but every ride increase the % chance of something happening. |
| 2014-03-24 7:37 AM in reply to: keqwow |
| Subject: RE: Are aero wheels more delicate? If, on each ride, you have a 1 in 1000 chance of running over your wheel, hitting a pothole that will bend the rim, have a dog run into your wheel at full tilt, etc, to the point that it will destroy whatever wheel you have on the bike. You have to rebuy them yourself, insurance in this scenario won't cover it. Would you rather have a $200-300 set of wheels on or your $1500-3000 set of wheels? Plus, the closer to your A race the more it would suck to ruin your race wheels as you're probably not going to get another set in time after X days prior. |
| 2014-03-24 9:30 AM in reply to: DanielG |
| 119 Groton, New York | Subject: RE: Are aero wheels more delicate? But really..how often has someone really had an issue with their wheels? Perhaps I just haven't put on the mileage yet for something to happen, but in all of the years I've owned bikes I've never had anything happen to my wheels. Sure, I've had flats, but I can't say I've ever busted up one of my wheels. I get your point, but at the same time that is kind of like having nice china and silverware. You use it maybe once a year. Kind of silly. If you can own it, one would think you should enjoy it as much as possible. If something happens then something happens. |
| 2014-03-24 11:12 AM in reply to: keqwow |
Master 1927  Guilford, CT | Subject: RE: Are aero wheels more delicate? Originally posted by keqwow But really..how often has someone really had an issue with their wheels? Perhaps I just haven't put on the mileage yet for something to happen, but in all of the years I've owned bikes I've never had anything happen to my wheels. Sure, I've had flats, but I can't say I've ever busted up one of my wheels. I get your point, but at the same time that is kind of like having nice china and silverware. You use it maybe once a year. Kind of silly. If you can own it, one would think you should enjoy it as much as possible. If something happens then something happens. I've been beating the hell out of my HED Jet 6 wheels since 2011. I have a powertap hub so I don't ever take them off (use them on the trainer too). Definitely more than 10,000 miles the past few years on them. I did over 5,000 on them last year alone. I have had them trued twice. I bought them, I like them, I ride them. Otherwise, I'd honestly rent them for an 'A' race if I was doing a big 70.3 or 140.6 I wanted to do well in. Sure they can break. Just like my frame can break, or my collarbone if I crash in a crit...or anything else. I don't buy things unless I intend to use them though...personal preference. I tend to agree with you. |
| 2014-03-24 11:17 AM in reply to: keqwow |
Veteran 1384 Panama City, FL | Subject: RE: Are aero wheels more delicate? I have been training on Zipps 808 / 404 firecrests. I can't envision not seeing a pothole big enough to damage the wheels. They're hearty. In fact, due to requiring lower PSI of 125 vs my other wheels of 165-170 PSI, they actually ride "softer" . So, other than wearing the tire itself, I paid too much NOT to use them some in training. I paid too much to just race them 4-5 times a year. |
| 2014-03-24 11:21 AM in reply to: keqwow |
Veteran 1384 Panama City, FL | Subject: RE: Are aero wheels more delicate? Also, I saw a Zipp promotional video (maybe on youtube or somewhere, i'll try to find) on them testing the wheels- man, they smash them down so hard they deform temporarily, then spring back- something I could not imagine happening in "real life". The wheels are designed to be pretty tough. |
| 2014-03-24 3:07 PM in reply to: keqwow |
| Subject: RE: Are aero wheels more delicate? Originally posted by keqwow But really..how often has someone really had an issue with their wheels? Perhaps I just haven't put on the mileage yet for something to happen, but in all of the years I've owned bikes I've never had anything happen to my wheels. Sure, I've had flats, but I can't say I've ever busted up one of my wheels. I get your point, but at the same time that is kind of like having nice china and silverware. You use it maybe once a year. Kind of silly. If you can own it, one would think you should enjoy it as much as possible. If something happens then something happens. I ride enough, and on poor enough roads where I have had 3 issues with my training wheels that were beyond repair. Two cracked hubs and one bent rim track. As to the bolded...it depends why you bought race wheels. If you bought them because you want to ride them as much as possible...then go for it. I have absolutely no problem with that. Me on the other hand...I bought them to go faster in races. I bought them knowing I would only use them a handful of times per year. I don't enjoy training on them. I like to keep them with fresh race tires and latex tubes rather than constantly swap them out to training tires and butyl tubes. That would drive me crazy. I also commute a lot and like the fact that I can ride through rough patches, hop a few curbs, and generally abuse them without having to worry about lower spoke counts. Crashing is also a very real possibility for me. And if I crash, and trash my training wheels...oh well. I'd be sick if I crashed on a training ride and trashed my race wheels...being that I don't like to train on them to begin with.
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| 2014-03-24 3:12 PM in reply to: taylorz13 |
Member 285 | Subject: RE: Are aero wheels more delicate? Originally posted by taylorz13 I have been training on Zipps 808 / 404 firecrests. I can't envision not seeing a pothole big enough to damage the wheels. They're hearty. In fact, due to requiring lower PSI of 125 vs my other wheels of 165-170 PSI, they actually ride "softer" . So, other than wearing the tire itself, I paid too much NOT to use them some in training. I paid too much to just race them 4-5 times a year. you pump your tires up to 170 PSI? |
| 2014-03-24 3:21 PM in reply to: taylorz13 |
Member 388 Miami | Subject: RE: Are aero wheels more delicate? I trained and raced with FLOs 60/90 since I bought them and they don’t seem to be more delicate than the stock wheels I had before. However, I had a crash this past weekend during a race and it made me think about using my stock wheels during my training rides… |
| 2014-03-24 8:32 PM in reply to: Iwannarunlikeforrest |
Veteran 1384 Panama City, FL | Subject: RE: Are aero wheels more delicate? Originally posted by Iwannarunlikeforrest Originally posted by taylorz13 I have been training on Zipps 808 / 404 firecrests. I can't envision not seeing a pothole big enough to damage the wheels. They're hearty. In fact, due to requiring lower PSI of 125 vs my other wheels of 165-170 PSI, they actually ride "softer" . So, other than wearing the tire itself, I paid too much NOT to use them some in training. I paid too much to just race them 4-5 times a year. you pump your tires up to 170 PSI? The tires are rated a max psi of 175. I've ridden them in the 150 range. Too hard at 175. Verdestein Tri comp. |
| 2014-03-24 9:29 PM in reply to: 0 |
| Subject: RE: Are aero wheels more delicate? Originally posted by taylorz13 Originally posted by Iwannarunlikeforrest The tires are rated a max psi of 175. I've ridden them in the 150 range. Too hard at 175. Verdestein Tri comp. Originally posted by taylorz13 I have been training on Zipps 808 / 404 firecrests. I can't envision not seeing a pothole big enough to damage the wheels. They're hearty. In fact, due to requiring lower PSI of 125 vs my other wheels of 165-170 PSI, they actually ride "softer" . So, other than wearing the tire itself, I paid too much NOT to use them some in training. I paid too much to just race them 4-5 times a year. you pump your tires up to 170 PSI? I would suggest you experiment riding at 95-105 psi for your standard training rims and 80-90 psi for your firecrests. I think you'll find out the new definition of what "too hard" is.
Edited by Jason N 2014-03-24 9:35 PM |
| 2014-03-24 9:35 PM in reply to: 0 |
| Subject: RE: Are aero wheels more delicate? |
| 2014-03-24 9:41 PM in reply to: keqwow |
Master 1858 Salt Lake City | Subject: RE: Are aero wheels more delicate? I've lost a wheel in training. It's bound to happen to everyone sooner or later, and its a lot easier to swallow a couple hundred bucks than a thousand. I also have older race wheels with a carbon bake track. The pads get chewed up crazy fast, and breaking really isn't as good with them as with aluminum wheels. I prefer to save the carbon wheels for race day, and put the real miles on the cheap aluminum rims. |
| 2014-03-25 7:55 AM in reply to: JZig |
Master 1927 Guilford, CT | Subject: RE: Are aero wheels more delicate? Originally posted by JZig I've lost a wheel in training. It's bound to happen to everyone sooner or later, and its a lot easier to swallow a couple hundred bucks than a thousand. I also have older race wheels with a carbon bake track. The pads get chewed up crazy fast, and breaking really isn't as good with them as with aluminum wheels. I prefer to save the carbon wheels for race day, and put the real miles on the cheap aluminum rims. Yes. Good point. Mine are just aluminum HED C2 rims with a carbon fairing. I also don't have a low spoke count. Purposely bought them to ride. If I hadn't gotten an awesome deal on them thanks to an old BT member, I probably wouldn't use them. Interestingly, I've cracked up two frames crashing and the wheels are fine. |
| 2014-03-25 9:23 AM in reply to: Jason N |
Veteran 1384 Panama City, FL | Subject: RE: Are aero wheels more delicate? Originally posted by Jason N Originally posted by taylorz13 Originally posted by Iwannarunlikeforrest The tires are rated a max psi of 175. I've ridden them in the 150 range. Too hard at 175. Verdestein Tri comp. Originally posted by taylorz13 I have been training on Zipps 808 / 404 firecrests. I can't envision not seeing a pothole big enough to damage the wheels. They're hearty. In fact, due to requiring lower PSI of 125 vs my other wheels of 165-170 PSI, they actually ride "softer" . So, other than wearing the tire itself, I paid too much NOT to use them some in training. I paid too much to just race them 4-5 times a year. you pump your tires up to 170 PSI? I would suggest you experiment riding at 95-105 psi for your standard training rims and 80-90 psi for your firecrests. I think you'll find out the new definition of what "too hard" is.
I will do that! Thanks - I guess early on, I thought higher PSI = "faster" rolling/better roll resistence and always stayed at or near the top of the max range. I weigh 165lbs, so I probably don't need max PSI. |
| 2014-03-25 10:03 AM in reply to: 0 |
Pro 6582 Melbourne FL Gold member | Subject: RE: Are aero wheels more delicate? Originally posted by taylorz13 Originally posted by Jason N I will do that! Thanks - I guess early on, I thought higher PSI = "faster" rolling/better roll resistence and always stayed at or near the top of the max range. I weigh 165lbs, so I probably don't need max PSI. Originally posted by taylorz13 Originally posted by Iwannarunlikeforrest The tires are rated a max psi of 175. I've ridden them in the 150 range. Too hard at 175. Verdestein Tri comp. Originally posted by taylorz13 I have been training on Zipps 808 / 404 firecrests. I can't envision not seeing a pothole big enough to damage the wheels. They're hearty. In fact, due to requiring lower PSI of 125 vs my other wheels of 165-170 PSI, they actually ride "softer" . So, other than wearing the tire itself, I paid too much NOT to use them some in training. I paid too much to just race them 4-5 times a year. you pump your tires up to 170 PSI? I would suggest you experiment riding at 95-105 psi for your standard training rims and 80-90 psi for your firecrests. I think you'll find out the new definition of what "too hard" is. If you were riding in a Velodrome then yes, that or max would probably be ideal PSI. I posted the following chart in this BT thread recently when it diverged a bit OT. Its about in the middle of the page, take a look at it and the link to ST that was provided after it for more info on the subject of PSI, rolling resistance and suspension losses.
Edited by Donto 2014-03-25 10:04 AM |
| 2014-03-25 10:31 AM in reply to: 0 |
Veteran 1384 Panama City, FL | Subject: RE: Are aero wheels more delicate? Thanks for the information. Sounds like I need to find my PSI sweetspot! Edited by taylorz13 2014-03-25 10:32 AM |
| 2014-03-25 9:02 PM in reply to: keqwow |
| 1055 | Subject: RE: Are aero wheels more delicate? Originally posted by keqwow But really..how often has someone really had an issue with their wheels? Perhaps I just haven't put on the mileage yet for something to happen, but in all of the years I've owned bikes I've never had anything happen to my wheels. Sure, I've had flats, but I can't say I've ever busted up one of my wheels. I get your point, but at the same time that is kind of like having nice china and silverware. You use it maybe once a year. Kind of silly. If you can own it, one would think you should enjoy it as much as possible. If something happens then something happens. Funny you should say that. I took two rear wheels into the bike shop today. One had a hub issue, a ton of lateral play. The other one keeps blowing the same spoke. They looked at both, tightened the one hub but said it was near its end. They said it wouldn't be worth fixing the second one with the spoke issue. I ended up buying a new wheel. The decision to just go ahead and get a new wheel is a whole heck of a lot easier and less painful when its not a 500+ dollar wheel. |
| 2014-03-25 9:09 PM in reply to: Jason N |
| Subject: RE: Are aero wheels more delicate? Originally posted by Jason N Originally posted by keqwow But really..how often has someone really had an issue with their wheels? Perhaps I just haven't put on the mileage yet for something to happen, but in all of the years I've owned bikes I've never had anything happen to my wheels. Sure, I've had flats, but I can't say I've ever busted up one of my wheels. I get your point, but at the same time that is kind of like having nice china and silverware. You use it maybe once a year. Kind of silly. If you can own it, one would think you should enjoy it as much as possible. If something happens then something happens. I ride enough, and on poor enough roads where I have had 3 issues with my training wheels that were beyond repair. Two cracked hubs and one bent rim track. As to the bolded...it depends why you bought race wheels. If you bought them because you want to ride them as much as possible...then go for it. I have absolutely no problem with that. Me on the other hand...I bought them to go faster in races. I bought them knowing I would only use them a handful of times per year. I don't enjoy training on them. I like to keep them with fresh race tires and latex tubes rather than constantly swap them out to training tires and butyl tubes. That would drive me crazy. I also commute a lot and like the fact that I can ride through rough patches, hop a few curbs, and generally abuse them without having to worry about lower spoke counts. Crashing is also a very real possibility for me. And if I crash, and trash my training wheels...oh well. I'd be sick if I crashed on a training ride and trashed my race wheels...being that I don't like to train on them to begin with.
train heavy race light |
| 2014-03-25 10:59 PM in reply to: ChrisM |
Master 2912 ...at home in The ATL | Subject: RE: Are aero wheels more delicate? Originally posted by ChrisM Originally posted by Jason N Originally posted by keqwow But really..how often has someone really had an issue with their wheels? Perhaps I just haven't put on the mileage yet for something to happen, but in all of the years I've owned bikes I've never had anything happen to my wheels. Sure, I've had flats, but I can't say I've ever busted up one of my wheels. I get your point, but at the same time that is kind of like having nice china and silverware. You use it maybe once a year. Kind of silly. If you can own it, one would think you should enjoy it as much as possible. If something happens then something happens. I ride enough, and on poor enough roads where I have had 3 issues with my training wheels that were beyond repair. Two cracked hubs and one bent rim track. As to the bolded...it depends why you bought race wheels. If you bought them because you want to ride them as much as possible...then go for it. I have absolutely no problem with that. Me on the other hand...I bought them to go faster in races. I bought them knowing I would only use them a handful of times per year. I don't enjoy training on them. I like to keep them with fresh race tires and latex tubes rather than constantly swap them out to training tires and butyl tubes. That would drive me crazy. I also commute a lot and like the fact that I can ride through rough patches, hop a few curbs, and generally abuse them without having to worry about lower spoke counts. Crashing is also a very real possibility for me. And if I crash, and trash my training wheels...oh well. I'd be sick if I crashed on a training ride and trashed my race wheels...being that I don't like to train on them to begin with.
train heavy race light this was the camp I was in as well for many, many years, but this season I have a new bike that is honestly a real PITA to change wheels on, and I am a very competent wrench. I am racing ALOT this season and I have just decided to ride the race wheels on the TT bike. Probably at least 50% of my riding will be on my road bike. Knowing that I would be riding the race wheels a lot more than normal I had them built a little tougher, and am perfectly willing and able to replace them should I crack them up. Ultimately we all have to figure out what our own comfort level is with the risk involved in any situation. Personally I wouldn't ride any equipment even in a "race-only" situation that I would lose a second of sleep over should I wreck it. |
| 2014-03-26 3:29 PM in reply to: TankBoy |
| Subject: RE: Are aero wheels more delicate? Originally posted by TankBoy Originally posted by ChrisM Originally posted by Jason N Originally posted by keqwow But really..how often has someone really had an issue with their wheels? Perhaps I just haven't put on the mileage yet for something to happen, but in all of the years I've owned bikes I've never had anything happen to my wheels. Sure, I've had flats, but I can't say I've ever busted up one of my wheels. I get your point, but at the same time that is kind of like having nice china and silverware. You use it maybe once a year. Kind of silly. If you can own it, one would think you should enjoy it as much as possible. If something happens then something happens. I ride enough, and on poor enough roads where I have had 3 issues with my training wheels that were beyond repair. Two cracked hubs and one bent rim track. As to the bolded...it depends why you bought race wheels. If you bought them because you want to ride them as much as possible...then go for it. I have absolutely no problem with that. Me on the other hand...I bought them to go faster in races. I bought them knowing I would only use them a handful of times per year. I don't enjoy training on them. I like to keep them with fresh race tires and latex tubes rather than constantly swap them out to training tires and butyl tubes. That would drive me crazy. I also commute a lot and like the fact that I can ride through rough patches, hop a few curbs, and generally abuse them without having to worry about lower spoke counts. Crashing is also a very real possibility for me. And if I crash, and trash my training wheels...oh well. I'd be sick if I crashed on a training ride and trashed my race wheels...being that I don't like to train on them to begin with.
train heavy race light this was the camp I was in as well for many, many years, but this season I have a new bike that is honestly a real PITA to change wheels on, and I am a very competent wrench. I am racing ALOT this season and I have just decided to ride the race wheels on the TT bike. Probably at least 50% of my riding will be on my road bike. Knowing that I would be riding the race wheels a lot more than normal I had them built a little tougher, and am perfectly willing and able to replace them should I crack them up. Ultimately we all have to figure out what our own comfort level is with the risk involved in any situation. Personally I wouldn't ride any equipment even in a "race-only" situation that I would lose a second of sleep over should I wreck it. I'm pretty sure there is a rule somewhere that if you're riding the TT bike you have...it has to be on race wheels.
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| 2014-03-27 7:15 AM in reply to: #4969953 |
Regular 116 | Subject: RE: Are aero wheels more delicate? Never heard the old adage "train on your heavies, race on your lights" ? You bought deep-section, low-spoke-count wheels for aero advantage on race day. But aero advantage doesn't make you faster when you're training... working harder does. Train on a set of heavy 32-spoke box rims and save your featherweights for race day. |
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