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Ironman Maryland! (Page 2)
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 2014-04-11 9:59 AM in reply to: dmiller5 |
Elite  3060    N Carolina |  Subject: RE: Ironman Maryland!Originally posted by dmiller5 No, not saving Columbia tri. Another company could have filled the void in the market for an IM race. As in, started their own. Now the venue is claimed. ETA: I'd rather have "canceledman" that IM in my state. I'd rather have the opportunity for a group that cares about the sport to come in than McTriathlon swooping in to take everyone's money. ETA More: "White Knight" my white behind. WTC is NOT moving in to help anyone. They are making a financial decision. They are here to make money. Don't fool yourself into thinking that WTC is being altruistic, they are making a buck. Being altruistic and making a buck are not mutually exclusive.......... |
| 2014-04-11 10:15 AM in reply to: LarchmontTri |
1159 | Subject: RE: Ironman Maryland! Originally posted by LarchmontTri Originally posted by dmiller5 Originally posted by trishie Originally posted by TheClaaaw I'm sure he does. I get the metaphor. But folks, this would not have happened without TriColumbia blowing up internally. WTC is not the Borg. A comment on slowtwitch was perfect: the only other option was going to be CanceledMan. The death of Chessieman came first. I'm sad that I never did Skipjack just for the name. (My son's name is Jack.) This! Yes but maybe another smaller company could have moved in with a different Ultra-Distance event next year. Now we are stuck with the Walmart version. Ok, perhaps a smaller company could have acquired CTA....but who is that? And could they have provided the capital, insurance and operational support to ensure that this year's races could still be held? Given all the timing issues with races that are scheduled for later this summer, it's unrealistic to think that any company other than Rev3 or WTC could have saved the races. I don't even think that Challenge could have done it...they don't have the infrastructure here in the US to do so. It would have been nice to think that some small grass-roots group could have saved CTA, but where are they? I agree that having 'independent' iron distance races is a good thing, but CTA imploded on itself. WTC is the white knight here. Otherwise, you would have CanceledMan - and that doesn't help anybody. Setup Events is the only other one, I could think of, right now that could maybe have stepped up and taken it over, or used the location - but since they are doing Savageman now - or rather starting next year - they already do the Full/Half B2B and Bone Island Tri's (North Carolina and Florida), so have the experience with the distance |
| 2014-04-11 10:18 AM in reply to: dmiller5 |
Member 763 | Subject: RE: Ironman Maryland! Originally posted by dmiller5 No, not saving Columbia tri. Another company could have filled the void in the market for an IM race. As in, started their own. Now the venue is claimed. ETA: I'd rather have "canceledman" that IM in my state. I'd rather have the opportunity for a group that cares about the sport to come in than McTriathlon swooping in to take everyone's money. ETA More: "White Knight" my white behind. WTC is NOT moving in to help anyone. They are making a financial decision. They are here to make money. Don't fool yourself into thinking that WTC is being altruistic, they are making a buck. You'd rather have Canceledman than IM in your state? Really??? To be honest, that statement is very selfish. What about all the other triathletes in MD and the mid-Atlantic region who were planning to race Chesapeakeman? Do you object that much to WTC and IM that you would want to deny other triathletes that opportunity to race Chesapeakeman/IM Maryland? We're in an era of big business...you just can't put the genie back in the bottle. Sorry. Though, I still want to know...if not WTC, then who? What about this year's races? It sounds like the choice is between WTC/IM operating like a business and hosting the races in 2014 and beyond, and all the races being canceled in the faint hopes of some group that doesn't exist yet showing-up and taking over the races because they care about the sport of triathlon. C'mon man, you have to know that WTC is the only realistic choice. Sorry, but I haven't heard of any other realistic options. I'm all ears if you have one. Long story short, I think we can agree to disagree on a majority these points. |
| 2014-04-11 10:23 AM in reply to: LarchmontTri |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: Ironman Maryland! Originally posted by LarchmontTri Originally posted by dmiller5 You'd rather have Canceledman than IM in your state? Really??? To be honest, that statement is very selfish. What about all the other triathletes in MD and the mid-Atlantic region who were planning to race Chesapeakeman? Do you object that much to WTC and IM that you would want to deny other triathletes that opportunity to race Chesapeakeman/IM Maryland? We're in an era of big business...you just can't put the genie back in the bottle. Sorry. Though, I still want to know...if not WTC, then who? What about this year's races? It sounds like the choice is between WTC/IM operating like a business and hosting the races in 2014 and beyond, and all the races being canceled in the faint hopes of some group that doesn't exist yet showing-up and taking over the races because they care about the sport of triathlon. C'mon man, you have to know that WTC is the only realistic choice. Sorry, but I haven't heard of any other realistic options. I'm all ears if you have one. Long story short, I think we can agree to disagree on a majority these points. No, not saving Columbia tri. Another company could have filled the void in the market for an IM race. As in, started their own. Now the venue is claimed. ETA: I'd rather have "canceledman" that IM in my state. I'd rather have the opportunity for a group that cares about the sport to come in than McTriathlon swooping in to take everyone's money. ETA More: "White Knight" my white behind. WTC is NOT moving in to help anyone. They are making a financial decision. They are here to make money. Don't fool yourself into thinking that WTC is being altruistic, they are making a buck. I think the 300 people who were going to do Chessie this year will survive. I wanted to do celebration triathlon, but that is gone now, and the choptank swim. I don't have an answer on who can provide the new Ultra-Distance Triathlon other than WTC (setup maybe?), but that is the point. If there is a market for it, someone will produce a race. I would much rather a new or smaller entity try to get into the business of producing a grassroots Ultra-Distance Triathlon. At the end of the day what has happened. A storied grassroots racing company went under, and a big-box corporation is in. You are damn right I would rather have no race and 300 people who need to find another IM than have WTC plant its flag here. |
| 2014-04-11 10:26 AM in reply to: dmiller5 |
| Member 763 | Subject: RE: Ironman Maryland! Originally posted by dmiller5 Originally posted by LarchmontTri Originally posted by dmiller5 You'd rather have Canceledman than IM in your state? Really??? To be honest, that statement is very selfish. What about all the other triathletes in MD and the mid-Atlantic region who were planning to race Chesapeakeman? Do you object that much to WTC and IM that you would want to deny other triathletes that opportunity to race Chesapeakeman/IM Maryland? We're in an era of big business...you just can't put the genie back in the bottle. Sorry. Though, I still want to know...if not WTC, then who? What about this year's races? It sounds like the choice is between WTC/IM operating like a business and hosting the races in 2014 and beyond, and all the races being canceled in the faint hopes of some group that doesn't exist yet showing-up and taking over the races because they care about the sport of triathlon. C'mon man, you have to know that WTC is the only realistic choice. Sorry, but I haven't heard of any other realistic options. I'm all ears if you have one. Long story short, I think we can agree to disagree on a majority these points. No, not saving Columbia tri. Another company could have filled the void in the market for an IM race. As in, started their own. Now the venue is claimed. ETA: I'd rather have "canceledman" that IM in my state. I'd rather have the opportunity for a group that cares about the sport to come in than McTriathlon swooping in to take everyone's money. ETA More: "White Knight" my white behind. WTC is NOT moving in to help anyone. They are making a financial decision. They are here to make money. Don't fool yourself into thinking that WTC is being altruistic, they are making a buck. I think the 300 people who were going to do Chessie this year will survive. I wanted to do celebration triathlon, but that is gone now, and the choptank swim. I don't have an answer on who can provide the new Ultra-Distance Triathlon other than WTC (setup maybe?), but that is the point. If there is a market for it, someone will produce a race. I would much rather a new or smaller entity try to get into the business of producing a grassroots Ultra-Distance Triathlon. At the end of the day what has happened. A storied grassroots racing company went under, and a big-box corporation is in. You are damn right I would rather have no race and 300 people who need to find another IM than have WTC plant its flag here. Can't say I'm surprised by your response, but that's quite selfish and I think those 300 folks would probably agree. Do you just not like big business? |
| 2014-04-11 10:50 AM in reply to: dmiller5 |
Master 3205 ann arbor, michigan | Subject: RE: Ironman Maryland! Originally posted by dmiller5 Originally posted by LarchmontTri Originally posted by dmiller5 You'd rather have Canceledman than IM in your state? Really??? To be honest, that statement is very selfish. What about all the other triathletes in MD and the mid-Atlantic region who were planning to race Chesapeakeman? Do you object that much to WTC and IM that you would want to deny other triathletes that opportunity to race Chesapeakeman/IM Maryland? We're in an era of big business...you just can't put the genie back in the bottle. Sorry. Though, I still want to know...if not WTC, then who? What about this year's races? It sounds like the choice is between WTC/IM operating like a business and hosting the races in 2014 and beyond, and all the races being canceled in the faint hopes of some group that doesn't exist yet showing-up and taking over the races because they care about the sport of triathlon. C'mon man, you have to know that WTC is the only realistic choice. Sorry, but I haven't heard of any other realistic options. I'm all ears if you have one. Long story short, I think we can agree to disagree on a majority these points. No, not saving Columbia tri. Another company could have filled the void in the market for an IM race. As in, started their own. Now the venue is claimed. ETA: I'd rather have "canceledman" that IM in my state. I'd rather have the opportunity for a group that cares about the sport to come in than McTriathlon swooping in to take everyone's money. ETA More: "White Knight" my white behind. WTC is NOT moving in to help anyone. They are making a financial decision. They are here to make money. Don't fool yourself into thinking that WTC is being altruistic, they are making a buck. I think the 300 people who were going to do Chessie this year will survive. I wanted to do celebration triathlon, but that is gone now, and the choptank swim. I don't have an answer on who can provide the new Ultra-Distance Triathlon other than WTC (setup maybe?), but that is the point. If there is a market for it, someone will produce a race. I would much rather a new or smaller entity try to get into the business of producing a grassroots Ultra-Distance Triathlon. At the end of the day what has happened. A storied grassroots racing company went under, and a big-box corporation is in. You are damn right I would rather have no race and 300 people who need to find another IM than have WTC plant its flag here. I don't understand. Really. They put on great races that people want to do. They have to make money or then they become CTA and that doesn't help anyone in triathlon. Yes. The bottom line matters. It doesn't make WTC a bad company for putting on high quality races and making a buck off of them. I think, in many ways we should be grateful that they aren't charging $1,000 or more for their high demand races. Because I think they could get it and still sell out at AZ, FL, WI, LP. WTC hires passionate race directors that care about their communities and put on exceptionally high quality races. I don't need for a race to be IM branded for it to be attractive to me. I don't need a race to be non IM branded to be attractive to me. I need a race to be in a good location and well run and WTC almost always provides that. |
| 2014-04-11 11:00 AM in reply to: wannabefaster |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: Ironman Maryland! |
| 2014-04-11 11:03 AM in reply to: dmiller5 |
Elite 7783 PEI, Canada | Subject: RE: Ironman Maryland! Originally posted by dmiller5 example 1 http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2011/10/wtc-now-cancelling-races-30-45-days-out.html because that never happens with other race companies.... I can think of at least two races in my general area that has happened at in the last few years. |
| 2014-04-11 11:06 AM in reply to: dmiller5 |
Master 2406 Bellevue, WA | Subject: RE: Ironman Maryland! Originally posted by dmiller5 example 1 http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2011/10/wtc-now-cancelling-races-30-45-days-out.html What point are you making? Businesses cancel events that don't have enough participants, and that's what that article says. It also says " In all cases, athletes were refunded their race fees." Broadway shows close, movies close, stores close, pro sports teams move cities, malls shut down, towns dry up. This is the circle of life. Are we supposed to shout "WTC CANCELS RACES AND REFUNDS THE MONEY!" in OMG fashion? Sorry, no can do.
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| 2014-04-11 11:11 AM in reply to: brucemorgan |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: Ironman Maryland! ok well y'all can have fun brown nosing WTC, giving them your money and feeding the beast. Enjoy your McDonalds and Walmart and companies that don't give a flying ___ about the consumer, just their bottom line. I will be enjoying grassroots races, local business, and people who care about my community. |
| 2014-04-11 11:16 AM in reply to: dmiller5 |
Elite 7783 PEI, Canada | Subject: RE: Ironman Maryland! Originally posted by dmiller5 ok well y'all can have fun brown nosing WTC, giving them your money and feeding the beast. Enjoy your McDonalds and Walmart and companies that don't give a flying ___ about the consumer, just their bottom line. I will be enjoying grassroots races, local business, and people who care about my community. I'm certainly not brown nosing them. All of the races I plan on doing this year are non-WTC and I enjoy those types of races you mention. I just think you are being a little extreme. You don't like their style, don't do their races. It's not like they bullied their way in and took over the event (which I acknowledge they may have done in the past). |
| 2014-04-11 11:18 AM in reply to: axteraa |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: Ironman Maryland! Originally posted by axteraa Originally posted by dmiller5 ok well y'all can have fun brown nosing WTC, giving them your money and feeding the beast. Enjoy your McDonalds and Walmart and companies that don't give a flying ___ about the consumer, just their bottom line. I will be enjoying grassroots races, local business, and people who care about my community. I'm certainly not brown nosing them. All of the races I plan on doing this year are non-WTC and I enjoy those types of races you mention. I just think you are being a little extreme. You don't like their style, don't do their races. It's not like they bullied their way in and took over the event (which I acknowledge they may have done in the past). All I said was that I'm sad that a grassroots race that I loved is being replaced by a WTC race, and that I don't want WTC here....that doesn't seem extreme. I also think WTC is a company that looks solely to make money and not help the sport, also not extreme.... it is a for profit corporation. |
| 2014-04-11 11:19 AM in reply to: dmiller5 |
Member 1748 Exton, PA | Subject: RE: Ironman Maryland! Originally posted by dmiller5 example 1 http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2011/10/wtc-now-cancelling-races-30-45-days-out.html WTC is a business, and the purpose of the business is to make money. Most people are satisfied with the IM events, so WTC does well. In taking over Tri-Columbia events they also had to take a loss on most of the events because of Tri-Columbia' poor business practices. Its great that there is finally an IM in the Mid-Atlantic area, this is a huge market from DC to NY that they just tapped. For all the people in this area we now have an IM event that we can drive to which makes the cost much more reasonable. |
| 2014-04-11 11:19 AM in reply to: dmiller5 |
Master 2406 Bellevue, WA | Subject: RE: Ironman Maryland! Originally posted by dmiller5 ok well y'all can have fun brown nosing WTC, giving them your money and feeding the beast. Enjoy your McDonalds and Walmart and companies that don't give a flying ___ about the consumer, just their bottom line. I will be enjoying grassroots races, local business, and people who care about my community. You're welcome to have your opinion, but there's no need to be a jerk. I won't do work at a loss, I don't expect companies to work at a loss on my behalf. In fact I don't want to because I don't need someone suffering for my pleasure. My example 1: I did the Grand Columbian half in Eastern Washington last year, and it was a ton of fun. Quite epic in fact. However, the race director went on and on at the breakfast the next morning about how it may not be possible to do the race in 2014 because he'd been running the race at a loss for the last several years. And it was clear he worked very hard to put on the race. Really? I don't want that. I didn't ask for him to lose money, risk his livelihood, personally suffer, etc. just so I could have an epic race. I didn't ask him to sacrifice like that on my behalf. And I don't understand why he would. |
| 2014-04-11 11:36 AM in reply to: brucemorgan |
Master 3205 ann arbor, michigan | Subject: RE: Ironman Maryland! Originally posted by brucemorgan Originally posted by dmiller5 ok well y'all can have fun brown nosing WTC, giving them your money and feeding the beast. Enjoy your McDonalds and Walmart and companies that don't give a flying ___ about the consumer, just their bottom line. I will be enjoying grassroots races, local business, and people who care about my community. You're welcome to have your opinion, but there's no need to be a jerk. I won't do work at a loss, I don't expect companies to work at a loss on my behalf. In fact I don't want to because I don't need someone suffering for my pleasure. My example 1: I did the Grand Columbian half in Eastern Washington last year, and it was a ton of fun. Quite epic in fact. However, the race director went on and on at the breakfast the next morning about how it may not be possible to do the race in 2014 because he'd been running the race at a loss for the last several years. And it was clear he worked very hard to put on the race. Really? I don't want that. I didn't ask for him to lose money, risk his livelihood, personally suffer, etc. just so I could have an epic race. I didn't ask him to sacrifice like that on my behalf. And I don't understand why he would. Exactly. I sure as heck won't do my job for free. I love my job and I am very good at it but if I stopped making a profit (and therefore stopped being able to feed and clothe my family-or stopped being able to make my investors happy if I am WTC) then I would be closing up shop and looking for another line of work. Care about your comminity? Are there any WTC races where the race director is not from your community and is not passionate about the race and what it contributes to their community? That was one of the things that the (local to) Mont Tremblant race director kept emphasizing last year, how much opportunity that an IM race brought to their community. As for my race schedule..... I'm racing 10 times this season, three WTC, seven local races. I expect them all to be well run and fun. If any of them aren't then they won't see my patronage again next year. WTC provides a product that is in demand. They have helped to grow triathlon in North America and worldwide. Have they functioned as a business? Well, duh. That is why they have been able to grow. PS. I like McDonalds. |
| 2014-04-11 11:45 AM in reply to: wannabefaster |
Elite 7783 PEI, Canada | Subject: RE: Ironman Maryland! |
| 2014-04-11 11:58 AM in reply to: axteraa |
Master 2500 Crab Cake City | Subject: RE: Ironman Maryland! Being from Maryland, I knew this was coming as soon as I saw that WTC was buying CTA. I am all for this and thinks its a great thing for the state, local community and triathletes in the Mid-Atlantic area. I am already signed up for an IM this year (IMMT) but its nice to know there will be a full IM within a 2hr drive from my house and I know people less then 30minutes away so I have a free place to stay if I ever decide to do another IM. I think this event will do well and should be a great time. |
| 2014-04-11 12:15 PM in reply to: dmiller5 |
| Member 763 | Subject: RE: Ironman Maryland! Originally posted by dmiller5 m Originally posted by axteraa Originally posted by dmiller5 ok well y'all can have fun brown nosing WTC, giving them your money and feeding the beast. Enjoy your McDonalds and Walmart and companies that don't give a flying ___ about the consumer, just their bottom line. I will be enjoying grassroots races, local business, and people who care about my community. I'm certainly not brown nosing them. All of the races I plan on doing this year are non-WTC and I enjoy those types of races you mention. I just think you are being a little extreme. You don't like their style, don't do their races. It's not like they bullied their way in and took over the event (which I acknowledge they may have done in the past). All I said was that I'm sad that a grassroots race that I loved is being replaced by a WTC race, and that I don't want WTC here....that doesn't seem extreme. I also think WTC is a company that looks solely to make money and not help the sport, also not extreme.... it is a for profit corporation. Would you be so ticked-off if WTC put on a race in another part of Maryland and didn't takeover CTA's races? If WTC put on a new race near Hagerstown, for example, would you also be so upset? Is the Chesapeakeman and CTA races that you are so fond of, or is it a hatred of WTC that is driving all this? I know this is an academic question, but just wondering. |
 2014-04-11 12:54 PM in reply to: dmiller5 |
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| 2014-04-11 12:59 PM in reply to: dmiller5 |
| Expert 2355 Madison, Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Ironman Maryland! Originally posted by dmiller5 Originally posted by axteraa Originally posted by dmiller5 ok well y'all can have fun brown nosing WTC, giving them your money and feeding the beast. Enjoy your McDonalds and Walmart and companies that don't give a flying ___ about the consumer, just their bottom line. I will be enjoying grassroots races, local business, and people who care about my community. I'm certainly not brown nosing them. All of the races I plan on doing this year are non-WTC and I enjoy those types of races you mention. I just think you are being a little extreme. You don't like their style, don't do their races. It's not like they bullied their way in and took over the event (which I acknowledge they may have done in the past). All I said was that I'm sad that a grassroots race that I loved is being replaced by a WTC race, and that I don't want WTC here....that doesn't seem extreme. I also think WTC is a company that looks solely to make money and not help the sport, also not extreme.... it is a for profit corporation. I understand your frustration with WTC, but this is one time they are doing absolutely the right thing. If they didn't step in, who would've? Setup events? Nope they can't afford it, Rev 3? Nope, these races do not fit their location model, Challenge? Possibly, but their growth model in the US probably didn't fit the mold. Another independent race series? Well could they have absorbed the financial loses already and still put the money forth to put these races on? Probably not. Yes WTC is a for profit company, I do not think they are best for triathlon either and I haven't raced with them in over 2 years. I am alway critical of their races, but they did something great here. Instead of this race folding and being nonexistent which would be less exposure and opportunities for athletes to race they kept that alive and produced a greater platform as well. Yes WTC doesn't always do the right thing, but here they absolutely are. |
| 2014-04-11 1:04 PM in reply to: bcagle25 |
| Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: Ironman Maryland! they are not saving the race, they are putting in an Ironman with a different course. There will be no more bugeye, skipjack, or aqua velo. They are not keeping the name of the history. Registration had not yet opened for the year. They are simply putting a new race in an old spot. |
| 2014-04-11 1:07 PM in reply to: bcagle25 |
| Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Ironman Maryland! I will interject this......I have no idea how it is everywhere in the country, but in my neck of the woods cities are starting to look at permit fees to shut roads down as a budget item. Around here fees have doubled and tripled in some cases and I don't see that trend going backwards. I'm not surprised that smaller races are having a tough go of it. I enjoy the mom and pop races far more than the big box races, but they may be going the way of the do-do bird. |
| 2014-04-11 1:18 PM in reply to: TriMyBest |
| Elite 3140 | Subject: RE: Ironman Maryland! Originally posted by TriMyBest I'll be more inclined to do it now than I was when it was ChesapeakeMan. Not because it's a WTC event, but because now I'd expect it to become large enough to feel more like an "event" rather than a training day.
Though I agree, I think it is all the same.........amazing how when it is Chesapeakeman no one wants to touch it , and I have even heard some criticism of it on prior threads but now that we slap that IM brand it is "everyones" favorite lol |
| 2014-04-11 1:28 PM in reply to: 0 |
| Expert 2355 Madison, Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Ironman Maryland! Originally posted by dmiller5 they are not saving the race, they are putting in an Ironman with a different course. There will be no more bugeye, skipjack, or aqua velo. They are not keeping the name of the history. Registration had not yet opened for the year. They are simply putting a new race in an old spot. So put on the old Chesapeakeman and let me know how it goes for you. But in all seriousness, I understand your point on the grassroots feel. Those are my favorite races, but if the support is not in place, how is it WTC's fault? There is a group here in Wisconsin that does their own self-made triathlon every year. Maybe you could start a new trend in Maryland. I am not a WTC supporter, I just look at the reality of the situation. Would you just have rather no race existed at all? Edited by bcagle25 2014-04-11 1:33 PM |
| 2014-04-11 1:34 PM in reply to: bcagle25 |
| Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: Ironman Maryland! I don't disagree, the first thing I said was that I was sad it was going....sooooooo I don't get your point. WTC is doing good business. ok cool. I don't like their races, and I don't want them in my state. I would rather chance it not happening and hope another race sprang up eventually. This is my opinion, you can't really argue with it. I've done Chesapeakeman and it was a GREAT race. No drafting. And to whomever says there was no market....it had a steady following and good numbers. CTA didn't go out of business because of C-Man. They went out of business because of charitable contributions that's exceeded their budget, and poor decision making by an unqualified board. |
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