General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Garmin or just use an Iphone? Rss Feed  
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2014-04-11 9:42 PM

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Subject: Garmin or just use an Iphone?
I would like to get something to track my rides....it would also be nice to be able to track runs and swims...it would be really nice to get cadence info, heart rate etc as well BUT....I was looking at the Fenix 2....so far, it has VERY mixed reviews on amazon. The 910 seems 'ok'...but again, it seems like the accuracy of the GPS can often be questionable. I thought perhaps it would be better to just go with an Edge 510 or 810 and forget about trying to find something that does everything 'ok' and hopefully find something that does one thing very well. It sees though, that folks are every bit as happy with their Iphones and whatever aps. they are using as they would be with one of the Garmin products. Now I don't have an iPhone...but it is something I've considered. I am just looking for something that can give me some reliable accurate data. It would be nice to get something that does everything, but it sounds like it might just be smarter to get a designated swim watch and either an Edge for the bike or use an Iphone. Opinions on the matter? I'd love to hear feedback from folks. Thanks.


2014-04-11 10:04 PM
in reply to: keqwow

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Subject: RE: Garmin or just use an Iphone?

Battery life is the biggest issue with smart phones.  If I go out on a long ride or long run, I don't want my phone to die in the middle of a workout.  And even if it didn't die during the workout...I still want my phone to have a charge in it afterwards...you know...so I can use it as a phone and brag on facebook to all my non triathlete friends what I just did.

I think you could do well either way with a 910xt or a dedicated bike and run gps device.  The edge 500 just came down in price to $160, so you could likely get that and a running watch for less than the 910xt if you are worried about issues with the 910.  I have one, and maybe I'm lucky, but no issues.  I do really like my edge 500 though and because I use power on the bike...I do find value in having a more dedicated bike computer (more fields available on each page).

I think a smart phone can be a good temporary or intermediate solution if you already own one...but I would not recommend buying a smart phone when one of the primary reasons is to use it as a GPS fitness device.  I do think that smart phones will eventually get closer to bridging that gap...but they need to solve the battery life issue first.

 

2014-04-11 10:13 PM
in reply to: Jason N

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Subject: RE: Garmin or just use an Iphone?

Our Edge 500 units work flawlessly.  HR, cadence, etc. and easily picks up power meter and downloads easily.  Both running kids have forerunner 10 units and they beat the hell out of my Timex GPS watch.

So..... 160.00 for Edge 500 + 100.00 for forerunner 10....260.00 and you'll have all the information you could ever want in a near error free package.

2014-04-11 11:04 PM
in reply to: Jason N

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Subject: RE: Garmin or just use an Iphone?

Originally posted by Jason N

Battery life is the biggest issue with smart phones.  If I go out on a long ride or long run, I don't want my phone to die in the middle of a workout.  And even if it didn't die during the workout...I still want my phone to have a charge in it afterwards...you know...so I can use it as a phone and brag on facebook to all my non triathlete friends what I just did.

I think you could do well either way with a 910xt or a dedicated bike and run gps device.  The edge 500 just came down in price to $160, so you could likely get that and a running watch for less than the 910xt if you are worried about issues with the 910.  I have one, and maybe I'm lucky, but no issues.  I do really like my edge 500 though and because I use power on the bike...I do find value in having a more dedicated bike computer (more fields available on each page).

I think a smart phone can be a good temporary or intermediate solution if you already own one...but I would not recommend buying a smart phone when one of the primary reasons is to use it as a GPS fitness device.  I do think that smart phones will eventually get closer to bridging that gap...but they need to solve the battery life issue first.

Yeah, the GPS tears through the battery rather fast. Haven't tried the newest phones with it out on something longer yet, but occasional use in apps has made a dent in a short time. I also got a dedicated unit (800 series) for the bike so that it would always have something with it. I don't want my primary communication device to be so exposed all the time. I still carry it with me, but as a back-up, so tucked away where it's covered up well and much more protected in the event of something happening. I went with the 800 (and now 810) because of the bigger screen for more info, but especially for the mapping. I'll go on rides that are mapped out ahead of time, and it's been very convenient to load these up and have the route immediately available to see.

2014-04-11 11:10 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Garmin or just use an Iphone?
Keep in mind WTC will DQ you if you have phone on the course according to their rules. If you want to use gps during a race then a standalone gps is about your only option.

Right now I use my Casio G'zone android phone and The strava app for my training gps, but I already had the phone. My longest rides are around 4 hrs so battery life hasn't been a problem. I really like this setup, but it will be staying at home during my boise 70.3 in June. Still debating whether I get a standalone gps for my races, to record and keep my pace under control.
2014-04-11 11:19 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Garmin or just use an Iphone?
Accuracy is also an issue with iPhone apps, especially for runs. Whenever I use a smartphone app and compare it to Garmin data (if I have comparable data), the smartphone GPS app always seems to measure about 3-5% longer than Garmin. (Example-- yesterday I ran with a friend and forgot my Garmin; he used his Garmin and I used the Strava app on my iPhone. Strava gave me an extra 0.7K over 14.3K, or about 5% longer.)

And of course you can't use a smartphone in the water, and there are battery life issues as others have said.

If you only want data that is "good enough" for runs and rides, you can get away with using the phone and recharging it frequently. For the pool you'd just have to use the pace clock, but that's how all swimmers do it anyway.

FTR, I have a 910xt and I love it. GPS receiver on it is as good as any other GPS watch or stand-alone bike GPS unit, and the data is very good. I'm primarily a runner, but I enjoy triathlon and like having the bike and swim data when I'm practicing those sports.

Edited by jennifer_runs 2014-04-11 11:21 PM


2014-04-12 6:21 PM
in reply to: jennifer_runs

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Subject: RE: Garmin or just use an Iphone?
910xt all the way
2014-04-12 6:35 PM
in reply to: keqwow

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Subject: RE: Garmin or just use an Iphone?
If you really want to get to the "nitty gritty" in terms of accuracy, features, etc. I can't recommend the site dcrainmaker.com enough. It has several in-depth reviews on all sorts of watches, devices, etc. There's also a nifty comparison tool that allows you to look at different devices. I purchased a 310xt (just couldn't afford the 910xt) and a cadence/ speed sensor after using the site to narrow down the choices. It also talks a lot about the differences in quality in terms of dedicated GPS in a watch compared to those in a phone.
2014-04-13 5:37 PM
in reply to: keqwow

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Subject: RE: Garmin or just use an Iphone?
I'm love my gadgets. Over the past several years I've acquired an edge 500, forerunner 110 (since given away), a 310xt and a garmin swim. I'm happy with my array of gadgets. The swim is small and doesn't bother my small wrists in the pool like a tri watch would. I love my edge 500, and I got the 310xt as an upgrade to the 110 because I wanted to be able to program my run workouts and I wanted something that would vibrate (my hearing isn't so hot).
2014-04-13 6:09 PM
in reply to: Left Brain


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Subject: RE: Garmin or just use an Iphone?
Yeah, the Edge is $150 but in your case, its picking up the speed and cadence info from the powertap. Assuming he doesn't have a powertap, he'll need to pick up a cadence and speed sensor as well.

As a cheaper alternative, look at the Garmin 310XT. You'll still need to pick up the extra sensors, but its cheaper than the 910 and if you did decide to get a dedicated bike and run watch, you might have been buying this watch anyhow.




2014-04-13 7:42 PM
in reply to: ziggie204

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Subject: RE: Garmin or just use an Iphone?
Poor battery life in an iPhone is spot on, think mine would last about 2 hr. I use a 310XT as my bike computer now. Have Ant+ speed/cadence sensor and a handlebar mount. For the price invested, I think I got one helluva rig.


2014-04-13 10:53 PM
in reply to: keqwow

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Subject: RE: Garmin or just use an Iphone?

Someday you'll be out there in the rain, or for longer than your iPhone's battery will last in GPS mode... or, you just might realize how handy it is to have numbers on your wrist when you're running.  There are many reasons why a dedicated device is just really handy to have.  Ruggedness, waterproofness, and many dedicated features of the various devices out there are just too good to ignore.

If I would recommend adding anything to your current iPhone solution- it would be to purchase a HR monitor.  bluetooth, if you want it to work with your phone, but Garmin's and most others operate on ANT+.

I used a garmin watch for both running and cycling for quite a while- but when I broke down and got an Edge 500- it was just so nice to have a dedicated spread of variables in a cycling dedicated device.  Eventually- I wanted something to count my swim laps and picked up a swimovate for $90- which worked fine.  As much as I loved my garmin forerunner 405 running watch- I went through 4 of them in 3 years due to reliability issues, and it was constantly freezing up on me. Now, more recently I updated my Garmin 405 running watch with the Suunto Ambit 2.  I'm thrilled with how versatile and completely reliable and stable it is.  Great for the swim, terrific for running, as I use its navigation capabilities, yet, I still use the 500 on my bike.  

There is no right or wrong here.  It just depends on how much money you want to spend on having a trick new device.  Personally, if you can swing it financially, I'd recommend quite a few of them.  And, while the gamins are great, and there's nothing out there with the features of the Fenix 2- it's not yet the most stable unit.  You might want to consider the Ambit 2- which is very solid.  Or, the New TomTom's, while perhaps not any more stable than the Garmins, are cheaper, simpler to use, thin and now with the HR integrated into the wrist band- they are offering some compelling products with a great future.  TOM TOM is still updating the firmware.  

Competition has been a great thing for us data geeks.  Lots of cool products out there.

2014-04-14 7:50 AM
in reply to: keqwow

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Subject: RE: Garmin or just use an Iphone?
I was at a similar decision point about a month ago. I went for the 910. One of the biggest reasons is that I wanted one device for an entire race. I was tired of not knowing what my real total time was during races (bc I started my non-waterproof Garmin 405 once I got on the bike). Also, I like the distance tracking for swim workouts. So far I like the 910. But it is definitely expensive.

As has been said, while you can make the iPhone solution work and it's more economical, I think you'll find it clunky. Battery life... can't use it in races... it's big to carry on runs.

If you don't care about swimming (which you probably don't since you're considering an iPhone), why not buy a cheap GPS watch like the 405?
2014-04-14 9:03 AM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Garmin or just use an Iphone?
Depends on the phone ... or iPhone in this case.

I have an iPhone 5S and use it mainly with the iSmoothRun app and the battery only drops about 15% on a 2-hour ride. The newer iPhones have a co-processor which dramatically increases battery life when using GPS apps.

I do keep the phone in my back jersey pocket with the screen off and use my Garmin 800 on the bike stem basically to see my stats as I ride. But the main reason I use the iPhone to track my rides is that I can upload to Garmin Connect and Strava over wifi. From an accuracy perspective, the iPhone is usually within a tenth of a mile of the Garmin, so it tracks really well. I have a combination Ant+/Bluetooth LE heart rate strap, so that also interfaces with the iPhone as well as the Garmin.

I know some of the newer Garmins allow wireless uploads now too ... but can't see myself investing in another Garmin at this point since my phone works just as well or better.

I stopped using my Garmin during races a few years ago, so not bothered by not being able to use the phone in a race.

Edited by rventuri 2014-04-14 9:06 AM
2014-04-14 2:27 PM
in reply to: rventuri

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Subject: RE: Garmin or just use an Iphone?

 

I am in the same boat currently. I already had an iPhone 4s so I decided to give that option a try. I picked up a Topeak stem mount for the phone that works great.

Biking: The battery life can be an issue, my phone already has weird battery quirks so it may just be me, but it can last long enough for a decent ride. I rode 4 hours on Sat and it worked fine. One issue is if you ride into an area that does not have good cell reception your battery will die quick. Also you have to leave the screen off to keep the battery alive so no speed or distance updates. I have a riding buddy that uses the 4s and says he has used it on 8-9 hour rides without issue, but again, no screen. The Topeak mount comes with a rubber phone condom, I would advise using it if you sweat a lot, sweat on the phone will get into the home button and kill the phone.

Running: Strava always thinks I have gone farther than I actually have. Sometimes a little, sometimes more. I now run with my 305 for decent data and let the phone track in an armband so I can upload to Strava, phone always has me going at least a bit further. 

 

So for me, the phone is not a great solution for anything really. Constant battery worry sucks on the bike, not having a readout kinda sucks, etc. I do like having the phone mounted to the stem in case the wife texts or calls. 

Ideally for me I would have the Garmin Fenix 2 for running, swimming, mtb'ing, etc. And then a dedicated Garmin 500 or 800 for the bike. But that is a good chunk of change. I will most likely be going with the Fenix 2 in the next month or so and I will wear it on my wrist for the bike. I want something I can OWS with and I like the idea of tracing my entire IM with one device. I chose the Fenix over the 910 because of the features and I like that I can wear the Fenix for everyday use. Also I like to set my truck as a waypoint when I go hiking/hunting, I can do that with the Fenix and not have to carry an etrex. 

2014-04-14 3:20 PM
in reply to: keqwow

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Subject: RE: Garmin or just use an Iphone?
To echo everyone, phones can work, but the battery life will take a big hit. Also, as some have mentioned, seeing the device and reading the numbers at a glance is a big draw. Data is only worthwhile if it is actionable. Recording on a phone gives you that info after the fact. While you may be able to twist your arm around (armband), wake it up and have a look (handheld) or get occasional audio feedback, none will ever be as good as glancing at your wrist.

The 310 is cheap now and does running a cycling with a huge battery. It is a smallish step up in price from the 110, but has so much more capability. The 500 is super cheap now if you want a cycling only computer. You can get both for a little less than a 910. If you only want one, get the 310.


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