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NewTAN's Third Law of Motion (Page 45)
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 2015-01-30 5:08 PM in reply to: lisac957 |
Sensei  Sin City |  Subject: RE: NewTAN's Third Law of MotionIn a brief nutshell. There is an individual here that is good at his particular (and important job - CAD/I.T.) but has EXTREMELY bad people and social skills. He offends and is condescending to everyone to the point people basically refuse to work with him even though we are forced to. I brought this issue up to the owners (with backup from the other project manager) and staff. They had words with him about his attitude (one of many talks they have had with him before about the subject over the years), but he brought up some of his own complaints and somehow turned the whole thing around into how the office needs to do things better and even report MORE to him - even though he already has an ego and a chip on his shoulder the size of a sequoia. We were told that even as project managers, we needed to "justify" our plans and designs to him... Seriously? After 20 years of engineering and senior project manager I need to report to a CAD/IT guy as the stamper/sealer of MY documents? I just realized that they were willing the make everyone cater to this guy and how small we were compared to him and how little trust or faith they have in me or anyone else. The other PM thought the same thing and we both, even being loyal people, decided to bail. THAT plus it opened my eyes to increased salary the industry offers (but my office failed to follow), I can get 401k (which my office is too small to offer and I haven't had in 8 years), and other reasons. SO, better pay, better retirement, bonuses, more responsibility and trust/faith, more potential for growth, not dealing with an A-hole, and a place I don't dread going to? I think I need to move along but also (since the boss is my friend), need to figure out how to tell him (despite the fact I can reference a half dozen emails and long conversations stating just about the same thing they "ignored" or the severity of my feelings didn't register). I could say "why am I leaving? - read the emails and remember the conversations we had over the last month - that's why I'm leaving" |
| 2015-01-30 5:09 PM in reply to: Kido |
Sensei Sin City | Subject: RE: NewTAN's Third Law of Motion Haha, maybe it wasn't as "brief" as I thought. But considering the countless hours I have devoted to the situation and sleepless nights and long conversations - probably 80 hours devoted to the issue, it IS brief! |
| 2015-01-30 5:59 PM in reply to: Kido |
Champion  7704    Williamston, Michigan | Subject: RE: NewTAN's Third Law of Motion Originally posted by Kido Haha, maybe it wasn't as "brief" as I thought. But considering the countless hours I have devoted to the situation and sleepless nights and long conversations - probably 80 hours devoted to the issue, it IS brief! You don't have to justify anything to anyone. This isn't a good situation for you even if you consider your boss a friend. In the end people do what they need to do to better lives for themselves. Move on and don't feel guilty about it |
| 2015-01-31 6:13 PM in reply to: Kido |
Expert 2122 Next to a big lake | Subject: RE: NewTAN's Third Law of Motion Originally posted by Kido Wow. What a toxic environment. It's not worth the time but I wonder how much that guy has cost the company in HR costs, project changes, etc. You do not owe anyone a explanation. If asked you could say evaluated the market for your skills and found a better offer and leave it at that. If your friend asks again away from the office, you could me more blunt but then weigh the cost of possibly hurting a friendship.Haha, maybe it wasn't as "brief" as I thought. But considering the countless hours I have devoted to the situation and sleepless nights and long conversations - probably 80 hours devoted to the issue, it IS brief! |
| 2015-02-01 9:44 AM in reply to: Socks |
Pro 6191  | Subject: RE: NewTAN's Third Law of Motion Originally posted by Socks Originally posted by Kido Haha, maybe it wasn't as "brief" as I thought. But considering the countless hours I have devoted to the situation and sleepless nights and long conversations - probably 80 hours devoted to the issue, it IS brief! You don't have to justify anything to anyone. This isn't a good situation for you even if you consider your boss a friend. In the end people do what they need to do to better lives for themselves. Move on and don't feel guilty about it Agreed. And on the salary/benefits front... I'm with a small company, too. Pay is ok, benefits are non-existent. My boss understands that I'm still casually looking - and I understand that my job really can't afford more pay or any benefits. Also, my employment is grant-funded and that grant runs out in about 14 months. I'm in a good situation with the National Guard that I've got medical/retirement though them. But if I left for financial reasons, there'd be no hard feelings. But, if my situation was like yours outside of the pay/benefits, I'd want to tell them. And not to complain, to help them understand likely issues they would face trying to keep another full time engineer around. |
| 2015-02-02 10:41 AM in reply to: ratherbeswimming |
| Chatham Ontario | Subject: RE: NewTAN's Third Law of Motion Happy snowy Monday TAN I am in at work but it is low key here. I don't feel like doing much, Work has me exhausted so many projects and so many launches this last year. And half the plant didn't make it in due to the snow today. Shoveled with my SO for almost 2 full hours to get me out of the driveway. Kido I agree leave on the best terms possible. They have issues but maybe in their mind their business model is built around that guy and thinking they can't replace him. As an Engineer in the auto industry I have learned that I can not change people. You have to find ways to work around them or you need to move on. I have been at my new company for over a year and I love it. I am swamped it is understaffed from top to bottom and publicly traded. I know I will run into over worked understaffed issues all the time. Its the world I work in now a days. But the last place I worked was the worst ever in 20 years and 4 companies. It was over staffed, wouldn't spend a dime and treated people like complete crap. I turned in my resignation and offered an exit interview. My boss didn't even bother he knew the issues and he knew ahead of time why I was leaving. It was only a month before that I worked an 18 hour day and then came into work 15 mins late the next day and they wanted to write me up. I refused to sign the paper. They played little games like opting what months to cover my cell phone bill if they thought I had worked hard enough or not. They based their judgements in that company by working hard not smart. ie working 18 hours meant you were a great worker. You could be there for 18 hours and hardly get anything done but it showed you were dedicated. You could work 8-10 hours a day like me show cost savings. Cover all your worked and more and provide proof of improvements etc. But you might not be a good worker. ie I would work 50-60 hours a week and managed to implement 3 million dollars in savings over 2 years and only spent about $90,000 to do it. I was shunned because I stopped working weekends once I had a kid. The other Engineer there managed to implement about $400,000 in cost savings and spent about $200,000 to do it. However he would work 7 days a week and he was paid OT under the old system. I was salary as a new hire. And the salary did not reflect the hours. Nor the work load. He would be there for 70-80 hours a week but mostly wander around and talk to people because he worked there for 18 years. I turned in my resignation and my boss looked and said " no sense me counter offering, I know this is a work culture issue." 2+ years there with documented improvements and not a single raise. I have been gone from there for 14 months and they have gone through 5 Engineers since I left. They sell themselves well then people get in and check out faster than they walked in. Be polite and professional. You never know they may close the business and move on themselves and you might need that contact down the road. I have landed job offers by being professional in my past to people I felt were my mortal Enemies. |
| 2015-02-02 3:26 PM in reply to: 0 |
Sensei Sin City | Subject: RE: NewTAN's Third Law of Motion Most recent twist... The "toxic" individual is rumored to be leaving. So the argument would be "if he is gone, you don't need to leave". Thing is, it's not really the individual that I had issue with, but the fact that management had so little faith in me, and catered to him (and asked me to). So it's more how the situation was handled, not the person - if that makes sense. Just like in any relationship or fight, it's usually not one particular incident or event, but how that event makes people feel or is handled. Like a fight over where to eat is REALLY something like fighting to be heard or acknowledged or someone feels ignored (if we are talking about a couple). Agreeing to get pizza is NOT the answer, but addressing the feelings of being ignored is the true problem. Know what I mean? So getting rid of they guy doesn't solve the problem of how they treated everyone or probably how they will continue to treat people. PLUS the salary and bennies. I think that everyone has gone too far down this path that a simple personnel change will do any good. The Titanic is too close to the iceberg to turn in time now.
ETA: The company had a superbowl party last night and apparently, there was some drunken conversation and a lot of the crap hit the fan with the boss. Part of me whishes I was there, but OTOH, me venting with a few drinks in me could have been bad. Better I left early, I suppose. Edited by Kido 2015-02-02 3:27 PM |
| 2015-02-02 3:47 PM in reply to: Kido |
Expert 2122 Next to a big lake | Subject: RE: NewTAN's Third Law of Motion Originally posted by Kido Jim, I think you already know what to do. There is too much history to believe things will change. A fresh start will be good. Perhaps with the individual gone it may reduce the urgency to search for a new position. I think you were smart to depart early before the drama. Most recent twist... The "toxic" individual is rumored to be leaving. So the argument would be "if he is gone, you don't need to leave". Thing is, it's not really the individual that I had issue with, but the fact that management had so little faith in me, and catered to him (and asked me to). So it's more how the situation was handled, not the person - if that makes sense. Just like in any relationship or fight, it's usually not one particular incident or event, but how that event makes people feel or is handled. Like a fight over where to eat is REALLY something like fighting to be heard or acknowledged or someone feels ignored (if we are talking about a couple). Agreeing to get pizza is NOT the answer, but addressing the feelings of being ignored is the true problem. Know what I mean? So getting rid of they guy doesn't solve the problem of how they treated everyone or probably how they will continue to treat people. PLUS the salary and bennies. I think that everyone has gone too far down this path that a simple personnel change will do any good. The Titanic is too close to the iceberg to turn in time now.
ETA: The company had a superbowl party last night and apparently, there was some drunken conversation and a lot of the crap hit the fan with the boss. Part of me whishes I was there, but OTOH, me venting with a few drinks in me could have been bad. Better I left early, I suppose. |
| 2015-02-02 5:28 PM in reply to: tcarlson78 |
Sensei Sin City | Subject: RE: NewTAN's Third Law of Motion Originally posted by tcarlson78 Originally posted by Kido Jim, I think you already know what to do. There is too much history to believe things will change. A fresh start will be good. Perhaps with the individual gone it may reduce the urgency to search for a new position. I think you were smart to depart early before the drama. Most recent twist... The "toxic" individual is rumored to be leaving. So the argument would be "if he is gone, you don't need to leave". Thing is, it's not really the individual that I had issue with, but the fact that management had so little faith in me, and catered to him (and asked me to). So it's more how the situation was handled, not the person - if that makes sense. Just like in any relationship or fight, it's usually not one particular incident or event, but how that event makes people feel or is handled. Like a fight over where to eat is REALLY something like fighting to be heard or acknowledged or someone feels ignored (if we are talking about a couple). Agreeing to get pizza is NOT the answer, but addressing the feelings of being ignored is the true problem. Know what I mean? So getting rid of they guy doesn't solve the problem of how they treated everyone or probably how they will continue to treat people. PLUS the salary and bennies. I think that everyone has gone too far down this path that a simple personnel change will do any good. The Titanic is too close to the iceberg to turn in time now.
ETA: The company had a superbowl party last night and apparently, there was some drunken conversation and a lot of the crap hit the fan with the boss. Part of me whishes I was there, but OTOH, me venting with a few drinks in me could have been bad. Better I left early, I suppose. Well, my life officially sucks (work life, at least). The guy that we all can't get along with? Quit. Hooray, right? Well, he took a job at the place I was going to go. I'm officially F-U-C-*-E-D... Can't go there. I'm surprised they didn't reach out to me to ask about him first. Weird. I guess I have to see if there would be enough separation between us for me to still go. I don't know what to do. |
| 2015-02-02 10:16 PM in reply to: Kido |
Expert 2122 Next to a big lake | Subject: RE: NewTAN's Third Law of Motion Originally posted by Kido Unfortunately he probably had that set up or just has a heck of great connection. Who's skills are in higher demand? Perhaps you could talk with your connection to see how the new company deals with problems you experienced. If they have a no BS philosophy or they put more emphasis on the Project Manager then it could not be a problem. I would still seriously consider going over there, you get a fresh(er) start and better pay and benefits. I suggest you let your new boss know there is history and that you will stay on the higher path if your project requires you to interact with him. I am not suggesting poisoning the water for him but they also should be aware of possible problems in order to save the expense and headaches. Originally posted by tcarlson78 Originally posted by Kido Jim, I think you already know what to do. There is too much history to believe things will change. A fresh start will be good. Perhaps with the individual gone it may reduce the urgency to search for a new position. I think you were smart to depart early before the drama. Most recent twist... The "toxic" individual is rumored to be leaving. So the argument would be "if he is gone, you don't need to leave". Thing is, it's not really the individual that I had issue with, but the fact that management had so little faith in me, and catered to him (and asked me to). So it's more how the situation was handled, not the person - if that makes sense. Just like in any relationship or fight, it's usually not one particular incident or event, but how that event makes people feel or is handled. Like a fight over where to eat is REALLY something like fighting to be heard or acknowledged or someone feels ignored (if we are talking about a couple). Agreeing to get pizza is NOT the answer, but addressing the feelings of being ignored is the true problem. Know what I mean? So getting rid of they guy doesn't solve the problem of how they treated everyone or probably how they will continue to treat people. PLUS the salary and bennies. I think that everyone has gone too far down this path that a simple personnel change will do any good. The Titanic is too close to the iceberg to turn in time now.
ETA: The company had a superbowl party last night and apparently, there was some drunken conversation and a lot of the crap hit the fan with the boss. Part of me whishes I was there, but OTOH, me venting with a few drinks in me could have been bad. Better I left early, I suppose. Well, my life officially sucks (work life, at least). The guy that we all can't get along with? Quit. Hooray, right? Well, he took a job at the place I was going to go. I'm officially F-U-C-*-E-D... Can't go there. I'm surprised they didn't reach out to me to ask about him first. Weird. I guess I have to see if there would be enough separation between us for me to still go. I don't know what to do. |
| 2015-02-03 6:34 AM in reply to: Kido |
Elite 4344 | Subject: RE: NewTAN's Third Law of Motion Sorry for you Jim, bu I can't help but laugh at the best example ever of Murphy's Law. That is so good. It may not be so bad in the long run. Here's my prediction. This guy won't change but the new place will not be so tolerant. Give it two months. He gets canned and they will be begging you to come. TW |
| 2015-02-03 6:45 AM in reply to: gr33n |
Elite 4344 | Subject: RE: NewTAN's Third Law of Motion No cream for coffee this morning. Cream is one my vices that has become a habit. The black coffee turned out to be ok, mainly because the beans are pretty good but also because it is so cold this morning. Something hot tasted good.TW |
| 2015-02-03 6:55 AM in reply to: tech_geezer |
| Chatham Ontario | Subject: RE: NewTAN's Third Law of Motion Originally posted by tech_geezer No cream for coffee this morning. Cream is one my vices that has become a habit. The black coffee turned out to be ok, mainly because the beans are pretty good but also because it is so cold this morning. Something hot tasted good.TW I hate when this happens. Then I go and try milk only and it makes it worse and I dump it. Then I go and try almond milk and dump that one. Then I get ticked off and go without coffee and that makes me angry. Mostly because we still get woke up once a night with a baby and I have not had a night of uninterrupted sleep in forever. Coffee is the worlds hero saving the world from angry sleepless me. HAHAHA |
| 2015-02-03 1:21 PM in reply to: gr33n |
Elite 4344 | Subject: RE: NewTAN's Third Law of Motion Tan Mini-Poll When you make a pot of coffee in a drip maker with the valve on the filter basket so you can sneak in and get a cup before the brewing is finished, do you. 1. Get the first cup because it is the best? 2. Wait until it is almost finished because you are in a bit of a hurry and can't wait for the last drop of water to drip out? 3. Wait until the pot signals the brewing is finished? You may justify (or rationalize if it is 1 or 2) if you wish.
TW |
| 2015-02-03 1:30 PM in reply to: tech_geezer |
Champion 14571 the alamo city, Texas | Subject: RE: NewTAN's Third Law of Motion Originally posted by tech_geezer Tan Mini-Poll When you make a pot of coffee in a drip maker with the valve on the filter basket so you can sneak in and get a cup before the brewing is finished, do you. 1. Get the first cup because it is the best? 2. Wait until it is almost finished because you are in a bit of a hurry and can't wait for the last drop of water to drip out? 3. Wait until the pot signals the brewing is finished? You may justify (or rationalize if it is 1 or 2) if you wish.
TW you have to wait for the pot because otherwise you make the rest of the pot too weak by sniping the strongest cup. |
| 2015-02-03 2:04 PM in reply to: tech_geezer |
Pro 6191 | Subject: RE: NewTAN's Third Law of Motion Originally posted by tech_geezer Tan Mini-Poll When you make a pot of coffee in a drip maker with the valve on the filter basket so you can sneak in and get a cup before the brewing is finished, do you. 1. Get the first cup because it is the best? 2. Wait until it is almost finished because you are in a bit of a hurry and can't wait for the last drop of water to drip out? 3. Wait until the pot signals the brewing is finished? You may justify (or rationalize if it is 1 or 2) if you wish.
TW 2. Mostly because (a) I'm drinking coffee at home and only skrewing myself... or (b) I made the pot of coffee at work and I want it NOW. I'm in first and make the first pot just about every day. That responsibility comes with certain privileges |
| 2015-02-03 2:20 PM in reply to: mehaner |
Elite 4344 | Subject: RE: NewTAN's Third Law of Motion Originally posted by mehaner Originally posted by tech_geezer Tan Mini-Poll When you make a pot of coffee in a drip maker with the valve on the filter basket so you can sneak in and get a cup before the brewing is finished, do you. 1. Get the first cup because it is the best? 2. Wait until it is almost finished because you are in a bit of a hurry and can't wait for the last drop of water to drip out? 3. Wait until the pot signals the brewing is finished? You may justify (or rationalize if it is 1 or 2) if you wish.
TW you have to wait for the pot because otherwise you make the rest of the pot too weak by sniping the strongest cup. How about trail mix? Is it ok to pick out the M&M's? |
| 2015-02-03 2:49 PM in reply to: tech_geezer |
Champion 14571 the alamo city, Texas | Subject: RE: NewTAN's Third Law of Motion Originally posted by tech_geezer Originally posted by mehaner Originally posted by tech_geezer Tan Mini-Poll When you make a pot of coffee in a drip maker with the valve on the filter basket so you can sneak in and get a cup before the brewing is finished, do you. 1. Get the first cup because it is the best? 2. Wait until it is almost finished because you are in a bit of a hurry and can't wait for the last drop of water to drip out? 3. Wait until the pot signals the brewing is finished? You may justify (or rationalize if it is 1 or 2) if you wish.
TW you have to wait for the pot because otherwise you make the rest of the pot too weak by sniping the strongest cup. How about trail mix? Is it ok to pick out the M&M's? not if you are sharing with someone else!!! you are just a mean dude! |
| 2015-02-03 2:58 PM in reply to: ratherbeswimming |
Alpharetta, Georgia Bronze member | Subject: RE: NewTAN's Third Law of Motion Originally posted by ratherbeswimming Originally posted by tech_geezer Tan Mini-Poll When you make a pot of coffee in a drip maker with the valve on the filter basket so you can sneak in and get a cup before the brewing is finished, do you. 1. Get the first cup because it is the best? 2. Wait until it is almost finished because you are in a bit of a hurry and can't wait for the last drop of water to drip out? 3. Wait until the pot signals the brewing is finished? You may justify (or rationalize if it is 1 or 2) if you wish.
TW 2. Mostly because (a) I'm drinking coffee at home and only skrewing myself... or (b) I made the pot of coffee at work and I want it NOW. I'm in first and make the first pot just about every day. That responsibility comes with certain privileges Whenever I made the pot I would wait for it to begin brewing, and snag the "first cup" because it was the strongest. And because they refused to buy anything other than Folger's mild brew crap. It was awful, but it was free. |
| 2015-02-03 3:03 PM in reply to: mehaner |
Elite 4344 | Subject: RE: NewTAN's Third Law of Motion Originally posted by mehaner Originally posted by tech_geezer Originally posted by mehaner Originally posted by tech_geezer Tan Mini-Poll When you make a pot of coffee in a drip maker with the valve on the filter basket so you can sneak in and get a cup before the brewing is finished, do you. 1. Get the first cup because it is the best? 2. Wait until it is almost finished because you are in a bit of a hurry and can't wait for the last drop of water to drip out? 3. Wait until the pot signals the brewing is finished? You may justify (or rationalize if it is 1 or 2) if you wish.
TW you have to wait for the pot because otherwise you make the rest of the pot too weak by sniping the strongest cup. How about trail mix? Is it ok to pick out the M&M's? not if you are sharing with someone else!!! you are just a mean dude! Yay. Good answers. |
| 2015-02-03 3:05 PM in reply to: ratherbeswimming |
Elite 4344 | Subject: RE: NewTAN's Third Law of Motion Originally posted by ratherbeswimming Originally posted by tech_geezer Tan Mini-Poll When you make a pot of coffee in a drip maker with the valve on the filter basket so you can sneak in and get a cup before the brewing is finished, do you. 1. Get the first cup because it is the best? 2. Wait until it is almost finished because you are in a bit of a hurry and can't wait for the last drop of water to drip out? 3. Wait until the pot signals the brewing is finished? You may justify (or rationalize if it is 1 or 2) if you wish.
TW 2. Mostly because (a) I'm drinking coffee at home and only skrewing myself... or (b) I made the pot of coffee at work and I want it NOW. I'm in first and make the first pot just about every day. That responsibility comes with certain privileges You get a pass. |
| 2015-02-03 3:09 PM in reply to: lisac957 |
Elite 4344 | Subject: RE: NewTAN's Third Law of Motion Originally posted by lisac957 Originally posted by ratherbeswimming Originally posted by tech_geezer Tan Mini-Poll When you make a pot of coffee in a drip maker with the valve on the filter basket so you can sneak in and get a cup before the brewing is finished, do you. 1. Get the first cup because it is the best? 2. Wait until it is almost finished because you are in a bit of a hurry and can't wait for the last drop of water to drip out? 3. Wait until the pot signals the brewing is finished? You may justify (or rationalize if it is 1 or 2) if you wish.
TW 2. Mostly because (a) I'm drinking coffee at home and only skrewing myself... or (b) I made the pot of coffee at work and I want it NOW. I'm in first and make the first pot just about every day. That responsibility comes with certain privileges Whenever I made the pot I would wait for it to begin brewing, and snag the "first cup" because it was the strongest. And because they refused to buy anything other than Folger's mild brew crap. It was awful, but it was free. The world is a sad, sad place. |
| 2015-02-03 3:12 PM in reply to: gr33n |
Elite 4344 | Subject: RE: NewTAN's Third Law of Motion It is 42 degrees and the sunlight is beginning to fade. Do I ride the trainer or suit up to ride outside?
TW |
| 2015-02-03 3:18 PM in reply to: lisac957 |
Pro 6191 | Subject: RE: NewTAN's Third Law of Motion Originally posted by lisac957 Originally posted by ratherbeswimming Originally posted by tech_geezer Tan Mini-Poll When you make a pot of coffee in a drip maker with the valve on the filter basket so you can sneak in and get a cup before the brewing is finished, do you. 1. Get the first cup because it is the best? 2. Wait until it is almost finished because you are in a bit of a hurry and can't wait for the last drop of water to drip out? 3. Wait until the pot signals the brewing is finished? You may justify (or rationalize if it is 1 or 2) if you wish.
TW 2. Mostly because (a) I'm drinking coffee at home and only skrewing myself... or (b) I made the pot of coffee at work and I want it NOW. I'm in first and make the first pot just about every day. That responsibility comes with certain privileges Whenever I made the pot I would wait for it to begin brewing, and snag the "first cup" because it was the strongest. And because they refused to buy anything other than Folger's mild brew crap. It was awful, but it was free. Ditto here. Cheap-o Folgers. |
| 2015-02-03 3:42 PM in reply to: ratherbeswimming |
Pro 5761 Bartlett, TN | Subject: RE: NewTAN's Third Law of Motion I use cheap o Folgers in my Kuerig so I only make one cup of cheap coffee! |
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