So Really...How much Does the Bike Matter (Page 2)

One of the esoteric things that I read was about leg turbulance during the pedaling cycle, that although it seems efficient to pedal at higher cadences, like 90 or higher, it creates more drag... I did some tests on analytical sites and personally and found that to be valid... with post ride analysis of ride data... I've learned to lower my cadence, from about 92 to 88, and my drag changes subtly... it might be absurd to read, but to me data doesn't lie. Don't get me wrong, I still practice pedalling at all rpms. Just that I've lowered my race cadence a smidge for the marginal gain. The only difference is of course, it lowers the speed for a given gear ratio, and then you'll have to start riding in a higher gear and get stronger, build the engine.

Edited by tomspharmacy 2014-08-05 7:20 PM

On that, I'll say Amen

Ben, I agree with you (as always), but I think we sometimes overdo the "it's the engine" discussion.

Many, many people I see on the course could easily gain as much in aero optimization as they could in one off-season of training hard.

It's not one or the other, it's both.

Joe BT that can hold 180w on an Oly will do 1h12min on a flat, no wind course with a .33 cda
If he works his butt off one off-season and gets to 210w, he will do 1h8min
If he did nothing in the off season, bought speed, and brought his cda to .28 he would do that same 1h8min
If he did both, he would come down to 1h4min

Yes it's about the engine, but there is being smart about using that engine.

Didn't mean to stir the hornets' nest with this one. I do get (and totally agree) that it is predominantly the engine. I'm no stranger to hard work....I live for it. But I liken this to the last athletic milestone I had to fight for and that was a sub-20 5k. The work involved to drop from a 20:19 to a 19:19 was a year of really hard work. If I were to try to validate each workout vs its marginal gain, I'd never leave the couch. So I'll take any gain I can get. Also, when I was working towards the 5k goal I knew it was me vs the road. So I could work hard knowing that I was doing everything I could to get everything out of the work I put in. With the equipment variable here, that's not the case and precisely what prompted me to ask.

Also my goal is to be competitive. I went from placing in my age group every race I entered (as far back as I remember) and almost always top ten in running to being middle of the pack in tris. Swimming is in the bag for me (just natural in that one) but biking and running take a ton of work. I've put my time in on running so now my focus is biking to get back to where I like to be.

That being said; I've got a technical question. I really feel like I could get more power and comfort if I could get 1/2-1" further forward with my seat but right now it's maxed. Can I just turn the seat post 180 degrees to make of forward facing instead of back facing? I don't see any mechanical reason it wouldn't work (in my head anyway) but I wanted to check.

(Just in case there is a misunderstanding, or I'm using the wrong lingo; the seat post I have comes up and goes 90 degrees towards the back of the bike to make the flat part where the rails of the seat attach. I want to take off the seat, turn the post around and reattach the seat so the 90 degree bend will be facing forward. I think it will work provided I can tilt it enough to level the seat)

Edited by 3mar 2014-08-05 8:31 PM

Flipping the seatpost around works sometimes, and sometimes it doesn't. Depends on the particular post - you can sometimes end up with the seat sitting at a weird angle when you rotate the post around.

If flipping your seatpost doesn't work, you could spring for a zero-offset seatpost to bring you forward, and Redshift makes a 2 position seatpost that allows you to go from normal to tri position.

for beginner triathlete website this sure sounds more like advanced elite triathlete!

I'm on a road bike that is set up for a TT position. I have a Fast Forward Seatpost which is designed to help with what you have described. I'm not sure if it will get you 1.5" but that is what my fitter recommended to me. This is the one I have, they also have in Carbon.

http://www.profile-design.com/profile-design/products/seatposts/alu...

Your seat post will likely not work in reverse if it is the same version on your bike that I saw on-line for the Vilano Forza 4.0. Won't hurt to give it a try, though (just don't try to ride it with the nose of the seat pointing up 20 degrees!).

I have a low end Trek 1000 that I have ridden for years and an aluminum tri-bike that I built up from Craig's List and E-bay for a relatively small sum. My experience? I'm faster on the tri-bike. I also have clip in pedals, an disc cover for my rear wheel, and a friend that loans me a front tri-spoke from time to time. Decent tires and an aero helmet round out my biking gear.

Do I have envy of nicer bikes? Yep. I want one pretty bad, but not in the cards just yet. If you have the money to spend, and you really like triathlon, I think buy a tt bike... used if you get the right fit, but new would be sweet. If it makes you ride more and harder, all the better. You don't have to go to the polar end of the continuum of bikes to be fast, there are good options out there for not a lot of money coupled with a wheel cover that will make a difference. And you'll feel cooler.

Sounds like you are pretty dedicated to improvement and a new set of wheels under you, coupled with a goal and determination, can be a pretty powerful combination.

Oh, also t.i.t.s.

Cheers!

If you don't have one, it's a good bet you'll never podium

Ok, I'll bite...... t.i.t.s??

I don't know if that will work, others may.

But another option for getting a little further forward is an Adamo seat. The way they are made and the way you sit, you can get more forward.
Lots of bike shops allow you to give them a try so this may be a 0 cost way to find out.

Moving too far forward, with a FF seatpost or new saddle....may have consequences on bike handling as well that you may want to consider.

Also, in general, when properly fit, if your seat moves forward, you can move the pads slightly forward, slightly down and preserve all the same angles. You will hear people refer to it as rotating around the BB. This allows you to get lower in front without closing your hip angle which can reduce power production.

Fitting and aero positioning are 1/3 science, 1/3 art, 1/3 experimentation :-)


t.i.t.s = time in the saddle
It's not something you can buy...well....ok...let's not go there.....




Edited by marcag 2014-08-06 5:41 AM

Time In The Saddle.

As a good rule of thumb, it's the correction for darn near all that ails you on the bike.

We started out talking about "better bikes". What it really comes down to is that going from a $400 road bike to a $4K road bike will get you very little speed advantage. Maybe more comfortable ride, look better, shift, brake better etc. but not much faster. However, getting even an inexpensive aero tri bike that fits will definitely give you a speed gain. It seems to me that there are tons of very lightly used tri-bikes on Craig's list at extremely good prices. I think a lot of people run out and buy one and then for whatever reason they stop doing tris and now they need to sell. So if you can nail down sizing and fit, you should be able to find a great tri bike for very reasonable price.

I appreciate everyone's input. I think I got exactly the information I needed. The biggest thing I needed to know was that the work I'm putting in now is not going to waste. Like I mentioned; in running I was always aware that the only variable was me, so it was easier to push myself knowing that I was the only thing standing in my way to getting faster. With the bike I just wanted to know (for the time being) that I wasn't shedding blood, sweat and tears to gain 0.5 mph when I could get an instant boost many multiples of that by going to a better bike. (I do realize that speed isn't the best indicator...but come on, I'm riding the cheapest aluminum bike I could find...you think can afford a fancy power meter?)

I do plan on buying a tri bike, but will wait a couple of months. At least now I know how to go about the fitting.

I had an awesome ride this morning. I think it was affirmation of the fact that it is, at least mostly, the engine (obviously not all) but most importantly, that there wasn't any huge barrier I was behind on my current bike that was holding me back. All the interesting "ear worm" sayings that were flying around didn't hurt either. I posted a best time on my 22 mile route by averaging 20.6 mph. That's the fastest I've done a 20+ mile ride. Maybe it was all the talk about chasing more t.i.t.s. Although I pushed so hard on the bike that I was pretty gassed for my subsequent 3 mile run and was huffing an puffing to break an 8:00MM.

Anyway, thanks for all the input!!