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Question about cramping
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 2014-09-23 2:09 PM |
Regular  287   Levittown, PA |  Subject: Question about crampingJust finished my first HIM Sunday. Had great training leading up to it. I only had cramp issues once during training and it was at the end of my first OWS of the season. Nothing major, but got a knot in my calf. Leading up to my race I drank probably 60 to 80 oz's of water a day for the last week leading up to the race. I drank about 12 to 16 oz's of gatorade the morning of the race, drank water on the way to the race and when waiting to start. I get to mile 20 or so of the bike (not pushing hard at all) and my hamstring stars to cramp and twitch. I ended up drinking somewhere between 60 to 80 oz's of water and gatorade on the bike. Also found people with some salt pills and took those, but once I hit mile 6 of the run the pain was brutal thru both of my legs. Everything from my waist down cramped. My shins (which I didn't even know could cramp) were the worst. Jolting pain with every step. I did a bunch of bricks and training rides using the same system each time and never once had a problem. I finished, but it was just flat out painful. I know there are a ton of things that can come in to play, but I'm baffled as to why the cramps came at all, let alone so early. 20 miles into my bike is usually a good warm up for me on my longer rides. And I was saving myself for the run so I wasn't pushing hard at all. Any thoughts? Edited by spiderjunior 2014-09-23 2:10 PM |
| 2014-09-23 2:18 PM in reply to: spiderjunior |
Extreme Veteran 3025  Maryland | Subject: RE: Question about cramping cramping is generally caused by overdoing it for your fitness. That said, with the large amount of fluids you are talking about it is quite possible that you had some kind of mild hyponatremia. Don't change your drinking habits like that just before a race, just stay hydrated as you normally would. |
| 2014-09-23 3:14 PM in reply to: dmiller5 |
Member 1748 Exton, PA | Subject: RE: Question about cramping Originally posted by dmiller5 cramping is generally caused by overdoing it for your fitness. That said, with the large amount of fluids you are talking about it is quite possible that you had some kind of mild hyponatremia. Don't change your drinking habits like that just before a race, just stay hydrated as you normally would. ^^^^agree, sounds like you went overboard drinking water. |
| 2014-09-23 4:44 PM in reply to: spiderjunior |
| 1055 | Subject: RE: Question about cramping Yup, as already said, cramping is usually caused by going faster than your current fitness permits. Was it hot/humid? It's really easy to push too fast a pace in those conditions. Overdoing it also starts on the swim. I think people overlook the swim and I'm guilty doing this myself. During my first HIM, I cramped up right before mile six on the run and thought, oh crap, not now, I'm so close. I was able to walk it out and start running again at a reduced pace knowing that I had outran my fitness. I got it done. . . but yeah . . . it was a struggle and a learning experience. |
| 2014-09-24 7:55 AM in reply to: ziggie204 |
Regular 287 Levittown, PA | Subject: RE: Question about cramping Still not sure what it was, not sure if I'll ever know, but didn't realize you could cramp from drinking TOO much water. Strange. As for out doing my fitness, I don't know if thats the case. I'm not saying I'm a beast and can handle anything, its not like that at all, but the swim was realatively a medium pace, and i started to cramp really early on the bike. I didn't even feel like my day had really begun yet. I could see if it was later and I had been burning matches the whole day, but this was probably about 90+ mins into the race. Thanks for the info and replies |
| 2014-09-24 8:00 AM in reply to: spiderjunior |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Question about cramping |
| 2014-09-24 8:05 AM in reply to: spiderjunior |
Member 1748 Exton, PA | Subject: RE: Question about cramping Originally posted by spiderjunior Still not sure what it was, not sure if I'll ever know, but didn't realize you could cramp from drinking TOO much water. Strange. As for out doing my fitness, I don't know if thats the case. I'm not saying I'm a beast and can handle anything, its not like that at all, but the swim was realatively a medium pace, and i started to cramp really early on the bike. I didn't even feel like my day had really begun yet. I could see if it was later and I had been burning matches the whole day, but this was probably about 90+ mins into the race. Thanks for the info and replies Too much water throws off your body chemistry. http://sportsmedicine.about.com/od/hydrationandfluid/a/Hyponatremia... Remember nothing new on race day, that includes over doing the fluid intake. |
| 2014-09-24 8:26 AM in reply to: 0 |
Regular 287 Levittown, PA | Subject: RE: Question about cramping Originally posted by marcag how long are your typical swim workouts ? Most of my swim workouts are between 2000 and 2500 yards and I was doing them 2 times a week. I do mostly short hard efforts. Most of my distances never go above 400 yards and most of them were sets of 50's, 100's and 200's with minimal rest in between. Closer to race day I did a couple full distances swims and a few sets over 500yds each just to get my body used to the longer distance. Edited by spiderjunior 2014-09-24 8:27 AM |
| 2014-09-24 8:35 AM in reply to: 0 |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Question about cramping Originally posted by spiderjunior Originally posted by marcag how long are your typical swim workouts ? Most of my swim workouts are between 2000 and 2500 yards and I was doing them 2 times a week. I do mostly short hard efforts. Most of my distances never go above 400 yards and most of them were sets of 50's, 100's and 200's with minimal rest in between. Closer to race day I did a couple full distances swims and a few sets over 500yds each just to get my body used to the longer distance. My personal experience is when my swim workouts were shorter, ie < 2200 yards, I would tend to cramp end of swim, beginning of bike when I would do a HIM. Then again I would cramp now and then at the end of a swim workout. A buddy of mine, same thing. He is an uber long distance runner and biker but would cramp up early in the bike this year. The only thing that changed is his swim workouts were shorter this year. He had been training 3000m per workout before as he was doing full IM. Do you sometimes cramp in the pool ? This may be something completely different but you don't sound like the guy cramping half way through the run due to overbiking or the type of cramping normally associated with hyponetremia. Did you notice your urine color the day before racing ? Edited by marcag 2014-09-24 8:38 AM |
| 2014-09-24 8:45 AM in reply to: spiderjunior |
| 1055 | Subject: RE: Question about cramping Originally posted by spiderjunior Originally posted by marcag how long are your typical swim workouts ? Most of my swim workouts are between 2000 and 2500 yards and I was doing them 2 times a week. I do mostly short hard efforts. Most of my distances never go above 400 yards and most of them were sets of 50's, 100's and 200's with minimal rest in between. Closer to race day I did a couple full distances swims and a few sets over 500yds each just to get my body used to the longer distance. Yeah, I think that right there is your likely culprit. At two sessions and only 4000-5000 yards per week, it would be incredibly easy to out swim your fitness. The fact that you started cramping early on in the bike only makes it sound more likely. I've done the same thing more times that I care to admit, and the answer was always that I should have swam slower or trained more. |
| 2014-09-24 8:46 AM in reply to: 0 |
Regular 287 Levittown, PA | Subject: RE: Question about cramping Originally posted by mike761 Too much water throws off your body chemistry. http://sportsmedicine.about.com/od/hydrationandfluid/a/Hyponatremia... Remember nothing new on race day, that includes over doing the fluid intake. Wow, reading that really makes me now think maybe it WAS too much water intake. Also, one thing that stuck out big time was the following: Avoid use of nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory (NSAIDS) medicines that contain sodium. Research suggests that these drugs may predispose runners to hyponatremia. I've had a bad back for years. Bulging discs and inflamation.in my back. I tried to stay away from meds while training but during my taper I really wanted to make sure that my back pain was at a minimum so I had started taking indomethacin which is an anti inflamatory and took it right up until the day before the race. Wow, I might have sabotaged myself by doing that. thanks for the article. That really shed some light on some things for me. I guess i might not ever know for sure but this really sounds like a great start to understanding where the problem originated. Marcag, Thanks for your follow up as well. In the 10 months of training leading up to the race I had only got 1 cramp in my calf during swimming and never cramped during a bike or run. I know my swim volume was on the lower side, but I was such a weak runner that I really wanted to cut back on swimming to put more effort into my run training. Edited by spiderjunior 2014-09-24 8:46 AM |
| 2014-09-24 9:02 AM in reply to: spiderjunior |
Member 1748 Exton, PA | Subject: RE: Question about cramping You'll probably never know for sure, could have been a combination of things that occurred. Good news is that it opened you up to look at what you were doing(right and wrong). Going forward you have more information to train and prepare properly. |
| 2014-09-24 10:20 AM in reply to: mike761 |
Veteran 706 Illinois | Subject: RE: Question about cramping In my run-up to IMWI, starting with Racine 70.3, I was getting hit with leg cramps during the swim and sporadically while running. The swim cramps were so bad I almost tossed the towel in at that point. Afterward, I did some research and started taking magnesium and potassium supplements, plus salt tabs for long rides/runs/bricks. My research seemed to indicate that, over long-term endurance training, those trace salts can get depleted; we don't have a lot of them to begin with, and don't need a lot, but over a year or two of training, the body's stocks can drop low. Also, normal supplement dose levels don't seem to have any ill effects, so it's not a big deal even if its wrong, and the supplements are cheap. End result is that I had a clean race, with no cramping, at IMWI. |
| 2014-09-24 10:45 AM in reply to: mirthfuldragon |
Member 1748 Exton, PA | Subject: RE: Question about cramping Originally posted by mirthfuldragon In my run-up to IMWI, starting with Racine 70.3, I was getting hit with leg cramps during the swim and sporadically while running. The swim cramps were so bad I almost tossed the towel in at that point. Afterward, I did some research and started taking magnesium and potassium supplements, plus salt tabs for long rides/runs/bricks. My research seemed to indicate that, over long-term endurance training, those trace salts can get depleted; we don't have a lot of them to begin with, and don't need a lot, but over a year or two of training, the body's stocks can drop low. Also, normal supplement dose levels don't seem to have any ill effects, so it's not a big deal even if its wrong, and the supplements are cheap. End result is that I had a clean race, with no cramping, at IMWI. Nutrition get tricky real fast, I've done a lot of reading on it and still feel like I don't know nearly enough. Here is another article discussing electrolytes for runners. http://runnersconnect.net/running-nutrition-articles/electrolytes-f... |
| 2014-09-24 10:58 AM in reply to: spiderjunior |
Member 140 Indian Hills, CO | Subject: RE: Question about cramping Originally posted by spiderjunior Leading up to my race I drank probably 60 to 80 oz's of water a day for the last week leading up to the race. Not trying to stir the pot, but 60-80 oz per day is a lot to you? I drink probably 3 liters a day just sitting at my desk. When I'm training hard in the heat and/or days leading up to an event I probably drink close to 5 liters a day. Granted, when I do that I have some electrolytes too. If your body is used to that little water I could see having problems when you drink a lot. I'm just surprised everyone thinks less that 3 liters is a lot. Glad you're figuring it out. Ted |
| 2014-09-24 11:47 AM in reply to: spiderjunior |
| 1660 | Subject: RE: Question about cramping It's almost certainly NOT a nutrition issue and almost certainly a muscle overload issue. Given that you weren't going super hard, the distance/time was too short to have a nutrition-related cramp.
THe most likely explanation is that you may have been unconsciously constricting your hamstring muscle on the swim, either due to excitement, wetsuit alterating of your kick, or other factors. Some folks also swim harder on race day than they swim in training and then get surprised with strange muscle cramps (like foot cramps) on the swim or early bike.
I would not look to further nutrition/hydration fixes for this - analyze your swim performance and swim training, and see where the added hamstring effort originated from. |
| 2014-09-24 11:49 AM in reply to: indianhillsted |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Question about cramping Originally posted by indianhillsted Originally posted by spiderjunior Leading up to my race I drank probably 60 to 80 oz's of water a day for the last week leading up to the race. Not trying to stir the pot, but 60-80 oz per day is a lot to you? I drink probably 3 liters a day just sitting at my desk. When I'm training hard in the heat and/or days leading up to an event I probably drink close to 5 liters a day. Granted, when I do that I have some electrolytes too. If your body is used to that little water I could see having problems when you drink a lot. I'm just surprised everyone thinks less that 3 liters is a lot. Glad you're figuring it out. Ted You are correct. You do not develop hyponatremia drinking 60-80oz a day with meals. |
| 2014-09-24 11:50 AM in reply to: indianhillsted |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: Question about cramping Originally posted by indianhillsted Originally posted by spiderjunior Leading up to my race I drank probably 60 to 80 oz's of water a day for the last week leading up to the race. Not trying to stir the pot, but 60-80 oz per day is a lot to you? I drink probably 3 liters a day just sitting at my desk. When I'm training hard in the heat and/or days leading up to an event I probably drink close to 5 liters a day. Granted, when I do that I have some electrolytes too. If your body is used to that little water I could see having problems when you drink a lot. I'm just surprised everyone thinks less that 3 liters is a lot. Glad you're figuring it out. Ted I had interpreted that as 60-80oz of additional water, beyond what he normally drank. if not then it was def a fitness/pacing/execution issue. |
| 2014-09-24 11:58 AM in reply to: 0 |
| 538 Brooklyn, New York | Subject: RE: Question about cramping For me, quality of warm up and sodium are my main cramp related causes Edited by TJHammer 2014-09-24 12:01 PM |
| 2014-09-24 12:51 PM in reply to: TJHammer |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: Question about cramping Originally posted by TJHammer For me, quality of warm up and sodium are my main cramp related causes guarantee its not sodium. humans are the only animals with more sodium than potassium in their diets. hint: we don't need so much. |
| 2014-09-24 12:57 PM in reply to: yazmaster |
Regular 287 Levittown, PA | Subject: RE: Question about cramping Originally posted by yazmaster It's almost certainly NOT a nutrition issue and almost certainly a muscle overload issue. Given that you weren't going super hard, the distance/time was too short to have a nutrition-related cramp.
THe most likely explanation is that you may have been unconsciously constricting your hamstring muscle on the swim, either due to excitement, wetsuit alterating of your kick, or other factors. Some folks also swim harder on race day than they swim in training and then get surprised with strange muscle cramps (like foot cramps) on the swim or early bike.
I would not look to further nutrition/hydration fixes for this - analyze your swim performance and swim training, and see where the added hamstring effort originated from. Thanks for chiming in. as far as swimming goes. I normally can swim pretty comfortably at about a 1:45 - 1:50 per 100 yards pace in practice. My pace for my swim on the race was 2:02 per 100. Had a few issues with goggles that might have slowed me down just a bit, but nothing major. Felt pretty good and thought I put in just over a medium effort on my swim. I remember making a concious effort to kick just a bit to keep the blood flowing in my legs, but nothing major. At this point I am appreciating all the responses. it really helps bring a lot of things into perspective for me. |
| 2014-09-26 7:13 AM in reply to: dmiller5 |
| 538 Brooklyn, New York | Subject: RE: Question about cramping Originally posted by dmiller5 Originally posted by TJHammer For me, quality of warm up and sodium are my main cramp related causes guarantee its not sodium. humans are the only animals with more sodium than potassium in their diets. hint: we don't need so much. For mainstream society maybe, but many a lean conditoned athlete with super clean diet will need extra sodium come hard training time or race time or under hotter/more humid conditions etc. |
| 2014-09-26 7:32 AM in reply to: mike761 |
Master 3205 ann arbor, michigan | Subject: RE: Question about cramping Originally posted by mike761 Originally posted by dmiller5 cramping is generally caused by overdoing it for your fitness. That said, with the large amount of fluids you are talking about it is quite possible that you had some kind of mild hyponatremia. Don't change your drinking habits like that just before a race, just stay hydrated as you normally would. ^^^^agree, sounds like you went overboard drinking water. I have started buying four, 32 ounce, bottles of Gatorade before a race. I drink two of them per day on the two days leading up to the race. This makes sure I am well hydrated but I am also getting electrolytes and sugar to top up my glycogen stores. Chris (Macca) McCormack talks a lot about hydration and electrolytes in his book. He felt that he was 'washing out' significant amounts of his electrolyte stores with his hydration program so he switched up his hydration strategy in the days leading up to the race to try to combat this. Interesting read. Not sure if I totally buy in to his theories but I don't totally discount them either. I tend to believe what I have seen others post about this: that cramping is almost always due to exceeding your physiolgic capabilities. The only way to fix this is to get more fit or to race slower (or shorter). |
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