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2014-12-04 8:38 AM

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Subject: A Hypothetical Distance Indicator for 70.3
Yesterday I hit 2,000 yards in the pool for the first time and I was surprised (and very psyched) to learn that this is about the distance covered in a 70.3. Now I’m starting to wonder if a 70.3 might be a reasonable goal for me next year.

I’m not sure how to frame this question best since there are obviously many parameters to consider, but maybe you can humor me. Looking only at the maximum distances in my weekly workouts (below), how close do you think I am to preparing for a 70.3?

Distance/workout
Swim 2,000 yards
Bike 18 miles
Run 4 miles

Caveats aside, what weekly target distances would you consider suitable for completely a 70.3?

Distance/workout
Swim X,XXX yards?
Bike XX miles?
Run XX miles?


Edited by cassowary 2014-12-04 8:39 AM


2014-12-04 8:48 AM
in reply to: cassowary

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Subject: RE: A Hypothetical Distance Indicator for 70.3
going to get many answers based on just wanting to finish, wanting to race blah blah.
From my experience, if you want to be at the pointy end and look to qualify for World's you will need to be in the following ranges:

swim - 4000yds
Bike 80mi
Run - 15mi

even those numbers depend on what your strengths are and also the totality of your training program.
2014-12-04 8:56 AM
in reply to: #5071989

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Subject: RE: A Hypothetical Distance Indicator for 70.3
My rule of thumb is weekly volume peaking at roughly three times the race distances for long races like 70.3. In round numbers that's 6000 swim, 150 mile, 40 run. This can vary depending on strengths or weaknesses.

BTW, was your 2000 a continuous swim using flip turns...so no rests or holding onto the walls?
2014-12-04 9:11 AM
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Subject: RE: A Hypothetical Distance Indicator for 70.3
Good point, some context is necessary: As a novice, my goal would be to complete the 70.3 without injury.

My swim is nonstop, but I don't know how to flip turn in the pool, so I quickly grab, turn, and push off. Is that considering cheating because I get a quick breath as I turn?

Edited by cassowary 2014-12-04 9:19 AM
2014-12-04 9:21 AM
in reply to: cassowary

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Subject: RE: A Hypothetical Distance Indicator for 70.3
Answers are going to vary a great deal based on experience, strengths and weaknesses.

I would aim for consistency over a couple months.

Swim: 5-8000 a week, 2-3 swims
Bike: 60-90 miles, minimum 2 bikes-1 long ride, 1 tempo. 3 rides would be better
Run: 15-20 miles.
2014-12-04 9:28 AM
in reply to: Donskiman

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Subject: RE: A Hypothetical Distance Indicator for 70.3
Originally posted by Donskiman

My rule of thumb is weekly volume peaking at roughly three times the race distances for long races like 70.3. In round numbers that's 6000 swim, 150 mile, 40 run. This can vary depending on strengths or weaknesses.

BTW, was your 2000 a continuous swim using flip turns...so no rests or holding onto the walls?



I am assuming you have those numbers as weekly totals as opposed to single longest workout?


2014-12-04 9:36 AM
in reply to: cassowary

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Subject: RE: A Hypothetical Distance Indicator for 70.3
The swim is the easy part of the 70.3. It really isn't much of a step up from OLY racing, but following it with that bike and run is much more difficult than you would imagine.
2014-12-04 9:43 AM
in reply to: cassowary

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Subject: RE: A Hypothetical Distance Indicator for 70.3

Originally posted by cassowary Good point, some context is necessary: As a novice, my goal would be to complete the 70.3 without injury. My swim is nonstop, but I don't know how to flip turn in the pool, so I quickly grab, turn, and push off. Is that considering cheating because I get a quick breath as I turn?
Funny you ask the above highlighted.  Checkout this thread on LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/groups/Flip-turns-no-Do-you-150792.S.5943481943617257473)

Work your weakness if you plan on doing a 70.3.  If the bike course will be hilly consider that in your training and equipment (gearing).  I went from Sprint to HIM over 9 months doing my best to follow a BT HIM plan.  I lost a month near the end with a bike crash injury then a nasty respiratory infection, still did the HIM and enjoyed it.

2014-12-04 10:17 AM
in reply to: cassowary

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Subject: RE: A Hypothetical Distance Indicator for 70.3
Originally posted by cassowary

Yesterday I hit 2,000 yards in the pool for the first time and I was surprised (and very psyched) to learn that this is about the distance covered in a 70.3. Now I’m starting to wonder if a 70.3 might be a reasonable goal for me next year.

I’m not sure how to frame this question best since there are obviously many parameters to consider, but maybe you can humor me. Looking only at the maximum distances in my weekly workouts (below), how close do you think I am to preparing for a 70.3?

Distance/workout
Swim 2,000 yards
Bike 18 miles
Run 4 miles

Caveats aside, what weekly target distances would you consider suitable for completely a 70.3?

Distance/workout
Swim X,XXX yards?
Bike XX miles?
Run XX miles?


I'm not saying you can't do it, of course, but if you are maxing out at 18 on the bike and 4 on the run, you still have a bit of work to do.

In theory, if you add five miles to your long bike ride each week, you're up to 60-ish in what, eight weeks? But that is quite a jump. You might want to spend a bit of time in the 25-30 mile range for your long ride, with a few shorter rides or trainer rides during the week, before really starting to bump it up.

Same concept for the run: If you add 10% of your mileage to your long run every week, you pass the 13.1-mile mark between weeks 12 and 13. BUT, like for the bike, 4 to 13 is quite a jump. I'd spend a bit of time with your long runs slowly building to and then running in the 8-9 mile range before bumping it up higher, with at least 2-3 shorter runs during the week.

For context, I did my first 70.3 last summer having done a bunch of sprints and two Olys. I maxed out on the swim at about 2400 meters/session 3-4 times a week (including one open water swim nearly every week); on the bike at 60 miles twice with a few more in the 45-55 mile range once weekly, with two trainer sessions during the week; and on the run at about 16-18 miles (but I was also base building for a fall marathon) probably doing 30-40 miles per week.

The good news is it's still the pre-season. Get a good base going over the winter and I'm sure you'll do great!
2014-12-04 10:18 AM
in reply to: cassowary

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Subject: RE: A Hypothetical Distance Indicator for 70.3

I would say you are ready to begin preparing for a HIM.

Now you need to build your fitness from where you are.  I don't think targeting a workout 'max distance' is a great way to prepare for the race.  That said, I would guess that prior to a HIM you'd want to be confident that you could relatively easily complete a 4k swim, a 100mi bike and a 16-18mi run.  Not that any of those have to be an actual workout that you do to prepare for the race (and certainly not on a weekly basis).  But if you have relative confidence in completing each of those individually, then you will likely be in a position where you should be confident that you can complete the HIM.

2014-12-04 10:18 AM
in reply to: cassowary

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Subject: RE: A Hypothetical Distance Indicator for 70.3
The key to long distance triathlon is not any single workout. I understand your question to be what is the LONGEST SINGLE workout you have to do in order to "do" a HIM. Again leaving aside whether that's finishing in 7 hrs or under 4.30 hrs, the most important thing is CONSISTENCY. I am convinced that you don't need to do the race distance (of the individual disciplines) for long distance triathlon, from a physical standpoint at least. From a mental standpoint, it might make sense to approach it (excluding the marathon in an IM) as long as injuries are avoided. You say you did 2000yds. I can imagine that there will be sessions in the pool in the future where you will exceed that number, just not in continuous yards. So you're already training more than that. But one swim a week is not gonna cut it, nor is it gonna put you in a good spot mentally I assume. With running I don't think you NEED to go much over 10-11 miles in training for HIM, but again, here consistency trumps everything. If I had to predict who would perform better, the guy averaging 40 miles a week doing 6 runs but no runs longer than 10 miles or the guy doing 25 but one of them being 15 and the other two 5 milers, then I'm picking the first guy. Cycling being the longest part of the tri (if you don't overcook any discipline) lends best to going over distance, not because you need to but because it the least taxing on the body. A 3 hr ride should not be daunting in the least if you plan on doing a HIM, and 3 hrs is (with a healthy margin either way) within the range of the bike leg on raceday. Here intensity in rides is where you can gain fitness, but the long rides will give you the base to build from.

Having said this, your current maximum miles are really on the very low side. If you plan on doing a HIM, I would advise to work on increasing the frequency of your sessions and then increasing the duration. Intensity comes when you have built a soild base. As others more knowledgeable than me have said, speedwork or intervals are the "cherry" on the cake. You have to bake the cake first.


2014-12-04 10:19 AM
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Subject: RE: A Hypothetical Distance Indicator for 70.3
Thanks everyone, good feedback. Donto thanks for the link, seems like a good debate. I'm siding with the no-flip people for OWS.

Here were my initial (and probably naïve) thoughts. I've trained for 60 mi rides in the past (metric centuries), and my personal rule of thumb was to make sure my workout distance gets up to about 2/3 the distance of the race. So if I could ride up to at least 40 mi comfortably during a workout, then I knew I could ride 60 mi on race day. Applying a similar rational to my tri workouts for a 70.3, my guess for target workout distances would have been on the order of:

Swim 2,000 yards (or more, because I don't want to drown)
Bike 45 miles
Run 10 miles

It sounds like there may be consensus that individual workouts should be much greater than that actual race distances? Again, my goal would be to complete the event and enjoy it.


Edited by cassowary 2014-12-04 10:24 AM
2014-12-04 10:51 AM
in reply to: cassowary

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Subject: RE: A Hypothetical Distance Indicator for 70.3
People usually go longer than the individual leg of the race distance in training because that know they still need to do the other two legs on race day. Your 2/3 theory isn't the same when applied to triathlon because it's only 1/3 of the race. In other words...just because you can comfortably ride 45 miles...it may be a good indicator that you can ride 56...but maybe not after swimming 1.2 and still having to run 13.1 afterwards. As already mentioned, long course racing isn't as much about your longest workouts as it is your total training. Someone could very well be prepared for a 70.3 without really long workouts if their total training compensates for it.
2014-12-04 11:44 AM
in reply to: Jason N

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Subject: RE: A Hypothetical Distance Indicator for 70.3
3000-3500 yard swim 2-3 times per week
2-3 bikes in the 4 hour range and lots of 3 hour rides
15 miles on run (but that's at peak...lots of 13 mile runs prior to this)
2014-12-04 11:50 AM
in reply to: #5071989

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Subject: RE: A Hypothetical Distance Indicator for 70.3
Cassowary: i think due to the nature of training for a 70.3 it will be hard not to do the distance in training. It is not necessarily the goal, but it just happene that way, and tends to not increase the chance to be injured greatly. With running it is not necessary i think, but again, if youre a prolific runner and you would do a 3x3 mile race pace workout (probably more a half mary workout but just an example) chances are you will reach the 13.1 considering wu / cd / rest. But for finishing 10-11 miles should suffice.
2014-12-04 11:50 AM
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Subject: RE: A Hypothetical Distance Indicator for 70.3

why would you want to do the bare minimum and have the worst possible race performance you could have all while pushing yourself to your limits?  put in a little more time and base before the race and it will be a lot more enjoyable....  below is what I would recommend as sufficient training to not suffer and still be able to enjoy your "race experience" 

swim: 9000 yards per week
bike: 120 miles per week
run: 30 miles per week

do this and you will be ready for any course you sign up for. 

EDIT: it looks like you are asking for maximums, so here they are:

swim: 3000 yards
bike: 60 miles, it's all about the bike
run: 13.1, i'd at least do it once 2 weeks out from your race



Edited by Clempson 2014-12-04 11:54 AM


2014-12-04 11:54 AM
in reply to: cassowary

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Subject: RE: A Hypothetical Distance Indicator for 70.3

Jason described it well above.  On race day, you will likely be exercising for 5-6+ hours.  Under your 2/3 rule, you might want to be comfortable going for 3-4+.  So, if you can comfortably swim for 30min, ride for 3hr and then run for 30min--in the same workout--then you will probably be in good shape to extend the distance you need on race day.  Again, it's not absolutely necessary for you to actually do that workout.  And you MIGHT be able to get by with the targets you have there.  But probably only if they are supported by a lot of other workouts.  For example, a long run of 10 might be enough if you are running 30+mpw and a 2k swim might suffice if you do it 3-4x/wk and a 45mi ride might be OK if you do it well above race pace and/or do it at least a couple times a week. 

2014-12-04 12:41 PM
in reply to: JohnnyKay

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Subject: RE: A Hypothetical Distance Indicator for 70.3
Thanks everyone, that's a good reality check.
2014-12-04 1:54 PM
in reply to: qrkid

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Subject: RE: A Hypothetical Distance Indicator for 70.3

Originally posted by qrkid going to get many answers based on just wanting to finish, wanting to race blah blah. From my experience, if you want to be at the pointy end and look to qualify for World's you will need to be in the following ranges: swim - 4000yds Bike 80mi Run - 15mi even those numbers depend on what your strengths are and also the totality of your training program.

If you don't have the natural talent then it doesn't matter how much training you do as a 70.3 WC spot is an impossibility.  I'd say 80% of the people that sign up for a 70.3 will never, ever be able to qualify no matter how hard they work.  The 20% that do have a chance can do so based on some combination of talent and hard work.  

2014-12-04 2:07 PM
in reply to: cassowary

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Subject: RE: A Hypothetical Distance Indicator for 70.3

Originally posted by cassowary Yesterday I hit 2,000 yards in the pool for the first time and I was surprised (and very psyched) to learn that this is about the distance covered in a 70.3. Now I’m starting to wonder if a 70.3 might be a reasonable goal for me next year. I’m not sure how to frame this question best since there are obviously many parameters to consider, but maybe you can humor me. Looking only at the maximum distances in my weekly workouts (below), how close do you think I am to preparing for a 70.3? Distance/workout Swim 2,000 yards Bike 18 miles Run 4 miles Caveats aside, what weekly target distances would you consider suitable for completely a 70.3? Distance/workout Swim X,XXX yards? Bike XX miles? Run XX miles?

It's been mentioned already but one workout or distance indicator doesn't really mean much.

I've done 1:05 IM swims on never having swum more than 2500m in training.  Sub-5 IM bike split (actually 5:0X but had a mechanical issue that cost me several minutes) with no training rides over 85 miles, then ran a smidge over a 4:00 IM marathon having not ran more than 12 miles in training.  I probably would've gone a wee bit faster had I done some "longer" stuff but it was my overall volume and consistency that really mattered.  I was swimming 10,000 meters per week, cycling 8-9 hours, and running 40+ miles per week.  I just didn't do much "long" stuff.

2014-12-04 3:28 PM
in reply to: cassowary


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Subject: RE: A Hypothetical Distance Indicator for 70.3
How long did it take you to swim the 2,000yds?


2014-12-04 3:43 PM
in reply to: GMAN 19030

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Subject: RE: A Hypothetical Distance Indicator for 70.3
Great illustration GMAN, and nice to see that you did so well on consistency, which in fact might be a harder thing to get right than to do a couple of long workouts because it means no (or probably very few) missed workouts and just getting it done day in day out. I think one of the only reasons to approach race distance is to keep your mind at ease, but once you've figured out that you can perform similarly (or even better) on consistency, that argument has no merit anymore
2014-12-04 4:19 PM
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Subject: RE: A Hypothetical Distance Indicator for 70.3
Originally posted by ilikepizza

How long did it take you to swim the 2,000yds?


It was a 40 minute swim (2 min/100yards).

I know looking at weekly max workout distances is a crude indicator of how well someone might be prepared for a 70.3., but thanks for humoring me. Based on my stats I'm clearly no where near ready for a 70.3 (which I knew), but I'm very impressed hearing about the amount of training BT members put in to reach a 70.3. If my workout distances start reaching the 70.3 limits in all 3 events next year... I'll start thinking more seriously about what I need to do to prepare for a 70.3. For now I'll just keep training because its fun.


Edited by cassowary 2014-12-04 4:19 PM
2014-12-04 4:21 PM
in reply to: Snaaijer

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Subject: RE: A Hypothetical Distance Indicator for 70.3

Originally posted by Snaaijer  I think one of the only reasons to approach race distance is to keep your mind at ease, but once you've figured out that you can perform similarly (or even better) on consistency, that argument has no merit anymore

For some reason it's very, very hard for people to grasp that very simple concept.

Not saying that going long in training is a bad thing.  It has its place.  People tend to: a) place way too much emphasis on the weekly long workouts (IMO, the long run and long bike are the two most overrated workouts in triathlon), and b) do too many long workouts which can affect recovery (both mental and physical) and future workouts.  I see way too many "I'm going to do six hour training rides every week for 10 weeks" and "I'm going to do 20 mile runs every week" kind of nonsense.  It just isn't necessary.

2014-12-04 5:09 PM
in reply to: GMAN 19030

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Subject: RE: A Hypothetical Distance Indicator for 70.3

Originally posted by GMAN 19030

Originally posted by Snaaijer  I think one of the only reasons to approach race distance is to keep your mind at ease, but once you've figured out that you can perform similarly (or even better) on consistency, that argument has no merit anymore

For some reason it's very, very hard for people to grasp that very simple concept.

Not saying that going long in training is a bad thing.  It has its place.  People tend to: a) place way too much emphasis on the weekly long workouts (IMO, the long run and long bike are the two most overrated workouts in triathlon), and b) do too many long workouts which can affect recovery (both mental and physical) and future workouts.  I see way too many "I'm going to do six hour training rides every week for 10 weeks" and "I'm going to do 20 mile runs every week" kind of nonsense.  It just isn't necessary.

I agree.  I also think people get caught up too much with strictly distance or time and somewhat dismiss the role of intensity.  They rather go longer and easier than shorter and harder.  Even though it's very much possible to generate more training stress with a shorter and harder workout, while allowing more time for recovery since you're workout is done sooner.

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