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 2015-04-02 3:10 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
Extreme Veteran  3025    Maryland |  Subject: RE: 3 disciplines but not equalOriginally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by dmiller5 lets stop feeding the first post troll. fact is, i think triathlon is actually pretty balanced. You need to be good in all 3, and likely a stud in at least one discipline to win. Being a stud in 1 isn't enough if you are below average in another. #trollslivesmatter i refuse to serve them |
| 2015-04-02 3:13 PM in reply to: brigby1 |
Pro 15655   | Subject: RE: 3 disciplines but not equal Originally posted by brigby1 Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by sactowntriathlete I can find thousands of results that show strong finishers not winning. You said nothing. Try some math. I'm going to show this to my kid........he will be interested in knowing how math helps him win triathlons. Maybe you should try some training. Math can be limited by the understanding of the person applying it. Keep in mind there are at least several engineers in this thread. Sprints can be funny as there isn't really a standard like with the others, or a nominal value. A number of them may have a swim of 300-500 yds which can mess with things. Also extending the bike out 14-16 miles or so. Sprint - 750M swim/20K bike/5K run The rest are bastard children. |
| 2015-04-02 3:14 PM in reply to: Goggles Pizzano |
| 1055 | Subject: RE: 3 disciplines but not equal I think it's harder to 'win' the race on the swim, but you can certainly put a down payment on the 'w' if you're a strong swimmer (ex-club/school swimmer). However, you can certainly 'lose' the race on the swim if you're giving up too much time to guys on the front. So the swim, if we are talking about local competition (leaving out national/regional races) is important to some extent but not remotely as important as it is when you get to the national/regional level. At the local level, its pretty rare to have a group of guys putting down 19/22 minute 1500's. Usually, the first guy is coming out of the drink in 23-24 and that is only going to put him a few minutes ahead of the main pack. Even the guys who do put down a 20/21 time . . . they are probably only getting 5-6 minute head start of the main field. At the national level, the races get much tighter, so those minutes gained in the swim become so much more critical. At the local level the strong cyclists can bury you. If you average 21/22 mph, which is a pretty good clip, you're coming in around 77 minutes-ish. The strong men will lay down a 60/65 minute 40k and crush you time wise. Even if you can throw down a 38/39 10k, they have to run a 50 minute 10k for you to pick them off. That's a huge ask. My own experience is that there are a lot more strong cyclists than there are strong swimmers, at least that is true in my neck of the woods. On how equal the disciplines are, I think it wholly depends on the distance of the race and the competition level. At the national level, I think they are fairly well balanced. At the local level, it pays to put in the time to beef up your speed on the bike otherwise you'll lose too much ground. |
| 2015-04-02 3:17 PM in reply to: 0 |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: 3 disciplines but not equal Originally posted by ziggie204 I think it's harder to 'win' the race on the swim, but you can certainly put a down payment on the 'w' if you're a strong swimmer (ex-club/school swimmer). However, you can certainly 'lose' the race on the swim if you're giving up too much time to guys on the front. So the swim, if we are talking about local competition (leaving out national/regional races) is important to some extent but not remotely as important as it is when you get to the national/regional level. At the local level, its pretty rare to have a group of guys putting down 19/22 minute 1500's. Usually, the first guy is coming out of the drink in 23-24 and that is only going to put him a few minutes ahead of the main pack. Even the guys who do put down a 20/21 time . . . they are probably only getting 5-6 minute head start of the main field. At the national level, the races get much tighter, so those minutes gained in the swim become so much more critical. At the local level the strong cyclists can bury you. If you average 21/22 mph, which is a pretty good clip, you're coming in around 77 minutes-ish. The strong men will lay down a 60/65 minute 40k and crush you time wise. Even if you can throw down a 38/39 10k, they have to run a 50 minute 10k for you to pick them off. That's a huge ask. My own experience is that there are a lot more strong cyclists than there are strong swimmers, at least that is true in my neck of the woods. On how equal the disciplines are, I think it wholly depends on the distance of the race and the competition level. At the national level, I think they are fairly well balanced. At the local level, it pays to put in the time to beef up your speed on the bike otherwise you'll lose too much ground. interesting. around here you aren't even a thought in the local olympics if you can't swim 22 and bike near the hour. most flat races above 2:05 is out of the picture. Edited by dmiller5 2015-04-02 3:24 PM |
| 2015-04-02 3:31 PM in reply to: 0 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: 3 disciplines but not equal Originally posted by ziggie204 I think it's harder to 'win' the race on the swim, but you can certainly put a down payment on the 'w' if you're a strong swimmer (ex-club/school swimmer). However, you can certainly 'lose' the race on the swim if you're giving up too much time to guys on the front. So the swim, if we are talking about local competition (leaving out national/regional races) is important to some extent but not remotely as important as it is when you get to the national/regional level. At the local level, its pretty rare to have a group of guys putting down 19/22 minute 1500's. Usually, the first guy is coming out of the drink in 23-24 and that is only going to put him a few minutes ahead of the main pack. Even the guys who do put down a 20/21 time . . . they are probably only getting 5-6 minute head start of the main field. At the national level, the races get much tighter, so those minutes gained in the swim become so much more critical. At the local level the strong cyclists can bury you. If you average 21/22 mph, which is a pretty good clip, you're coming in around 77 minutes-ish. The strong men will lay down a 60/65 minute 40k and crush you time wise. Even if you can throw down a 38/39 10k, they have to run a 50 minute 10k for you to pick them off. That's a huge ask. My own experience is that there are a lot more strong cyclists than there are strong swimmers, at least that is true in my neck of the woods. On how equal the disciplines are, I think it wholly depends on the distance of the race and the competition level. At the national level, I think they are fairly well balanced. At the local level, it pays to put in the time to beef up your speed on the bike otherwise you'll lose too much ground. Wait a minute......the guys coming in with a 26-27 minute swim, a 60-65 minute bike, and a 38-39 run are burying people in Oly triathlons?? In what world? That's what you just said. BEST case scenario in your example (with a 60 minute bike), with a one minute t1 and t2 (which is generous) is 2:06. That guy is solid, but nobody who trains well gets buried by him.
Edited by Left Brain 2015-04-02 3:33 PM |
| 2015-04-02 3:41 PM in reply to: sactowntriathlete |
| Subject: RE: 3 disciplines but not equal Triathlon is one sport. If you want to be good at triathlons, then you have to swim, bike and run appropriately so you get to the finish line the fastest and/or ahead of your competition. This is like arguing that football needs to change their rules and scoring systems because the outcomes of games are not equally weighted based on a teams strength on offense, defense, and special teams. The goal in football is to score more points than the other team...period. You can go about that in many different ways, focusing your teams strength accordingly as you see fit. But the end goal is to still score more points...not to ensure that each phase of the game is weighted evenly. |
| 2015-04-02 3:43 PM in reply to: 0 |
Extreme Veteran 2261 Ridgeland, Mississippi | Subject: RE: 3 disciplines but not equal Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by ziggie204 I think it's harder to 'win' the race on the swim, but you can certainly put a down payment on the 'w' if you're a strong swimmer (ex-club/school swimmer). However, you can certainly 'lose' the race on the swim if you're giving up too much time to guys on the front. So the swim, if we are talking about local competition (leaving out national/regional races) is important to some extent but not remotely as important as it is when you get to the national/regional level. At the local level, its pretty rare to have a group of guys putting down 19/22 minute 1500's. Usually, the first guy is coming out of the drink in 23-24 and that is only going to put him a few minutes ahead of the main pack. Even the guys who do put down a 20/21 time . . . they are probably only getting 5-6 minute head start of the main field. At the national level, the races get much tighter, so those minutes gained in the swim become so much more critical. At the local level the strong cyclists can bury you. If you average 21/22 mph, which is a pretty good clip, you're coming in around 77 minutes-ish. The strong men will lay down a 60/65 minute 40k and crush you time wise. Even if you can throw down a 38/39 10k, they have to run a 50 minute 10k for you to pick them off. That's a huge ask. My own experience is that there are a lot more strong cyclists than there are strong swimmers, at least that is true in my neck of the woods. On how equal the disciplines are, I think it wholly depends on the distance of the race and the competition level. At the national level, I think they are fairly well balanced. At the local level, it pays to put in the time to beef up your speed on the bike otherwise you'll lose too much ground. Wait a minute......the guys coming in with a 26-27 minute swim, a 60-65 minute bike, and a 38-39 run are burying people in Oly triathlons?? In what world? That's what you just said. BEST case scenario in your example (with a 60 minute bike), with a one minute t1 and t2 (which is generous) is 2:06. That guy is solid, but nobody who trains well gets buried by him.
Thanks...my PR is 2:11...I'll go cry in a corner now. ETA: Although it would have probably been 2:09 if it weren't for the horrible conditions that day in transition. Edited by msteiner 2015-04-02 3:50 PM |
| 2015-04-02 3:45 PM in reply to: Jason N |
| 1502 Katy, Texas | Subject: RE: 3 disciplines but not equal Originally posted by Jason N Triathlon is one sport. If you want to be good at triathlons, then you have to swim, bike and run appropriately so you get to the finish line the fastest and/or ahead of your competition. This is like arguing that football needs to change their rules and scoring systems because the outcomes of games are not equally weighted based on a teams strength on offense, defense, and special teams. The goal in football is to score more points than the other team...period. You can go about that in many different ways, focusing your teams strength accordingly as you see fit. But the end goal is to still score more points...not to ensure that each phase of the game is weighted evenly. Totally...we all know football games are won by defense.... |
| 2015-04-02 3:50 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
| Member 587 | Subject: RE: 3 disciplines but not equal Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by brigby1 Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by sactowntriathlete I can find thousands of results that show strong finishers not winning. You said nothing. Try some math. I'm going to show this to my kid........he will be interested in knowing how math helps him win triathlons. Maybe you should try some training. Math can be limited by the understanding of the person applying it. Keep in mind there are at least several engineers in this thread. Sprints can be funny as there isn't really a standard like with the others, or a nominal value. A number of them may have a swim of 300-500 yds which can mess with things. Also extending the bike out 14-16 miles or so. Sprint - 750M swim/20K bike/5K run The rest are bastard children. If we hold this as the "standard" sprint distance, which is usually the case in high level races, then the swim is very important. |
| 2015-04-02 3:57 PM in reply to: 3mar |
| Member 587 | Subject: RE: 3 disciplines but not equal Originally posted by 3mar Originally posted by Jason N Triathlon is one sport. If you want to be good at triathlons, then you have to swim, bike and run appropriately so you get to the finish line the fastest and/or ahead of your competition. This is like arguing that football needs to change their rules and scoring systems because the outcomes of games are not equally weighted based on a teams strength on offense, defense, and special teams. The goal in football is to score more points than the other team...period. You can go about that in many different ways, focusing your teams strength accordingly as you see fit. But the end goal is to still score more points...not to ensure that each phase of the game is weighted evenly. Totally...we all know football games are won by defense.... Actually, they are........you can make a serious argument that situational defense is the key to winning games. |
| 2015-04-02 3:59 PM in reply to: 5stones |
| 1502 Katy, Texas | Subject: RE: 3 disciplines but not equal Originally posted by 5stones Originally posted by 3mar Originally posted by Jason N Triathlon is one sport. If you want to be good at triathlons, then you have to swim, bike and run appropriately so you get to the finish line the fastest and/or ahead of your competition. This is like arguing that football needs to change their rules and scoring systems because the outcomes of games are not equally weighted based on a teams strength on offense, defense, and special teams. The goal in football is to score more points than the other team...period. You can go about that in many different ways, focusing your teams strength accordingly as you see fit. But the end goal is to still score more points...not to ensure that each phase of the game is weighted evenly. Totally...we all know football games are won by defense.... Actually, they are........you can make a serious argument that situational defense is the key to winning games. Oh, I was serious. I'm a Steelers fan so I'm a huge proponent of D. However, I was just throwing a little mischievous fuel on the fire to see if it would spark.  |
| 2015-04-02 7:42 PM in reply to: Jason N |
| 1053 | Subject: RE: 3 disciplines but not equal Originally posted by Jason N Triathlon is one sport. If you want to be good at triathlons, then you have to swim, bike and run appropriately so you get to the finish line the fastest and/or ahead of your competition. This is like arguing that football needs to change their rules and scoring systems because the outcomes of games are not equally weighted based on a teams strength on offense, defense, and special teams. The goal in football is to score more points than the other team...period. You can go about that in many different ways, focusing your teams strength accordingly as you see fit. But the end goal is to still score more points...not to ensure that each phase of the game is weighted evenly. I've skimmed through some of the previous responses and this sums up my response pretty good. When discussing other athletes or competition, its reasonable to discuss their strengths and weaknesses, but as individuals, you swim, T1, bike, T2, then run to the finish as fast as you can do it, and you train focusing where you can have the best return of investment on improving your overall performance. |
| 2015-04-02 7:44 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
| 1055 | Subject: RE: 3 disciplines but not equal Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by ziggie204 I think it's harder to 'win' the race on the swim, but you can certainly put a down payment on the 'w' if you're a strong swimmer (ex-club/school swimmer). However, you can certainly 'lose' the race on the swim if you're giving up too much time to guys on the front. So the swim, if we are talking about local competition (leaving out national/regional races) is important to some extent but not remotely as important as it is when you get to the national/regional level. At the local level, its pretty rare to have a group of guys putting down 19/22 minute 1500's. Usually, the first guy is coming out of the drink in 23-24 and that is only going to put him a few minutes ahead of the main pack. Even the guys who do put down a 20/21 time . . . they are probably only getting 5-6 minute head start of the main field. At the national level, the races get much tighter, so those minutes gained in the swim become so much more critical. At the local level the strong cyclists can bury you. If you average 21/22 mph, which is a pretty good clip, you're coming in around 77 minutes-ish. The strong men will lay down a 60/65 minute 40k and crush you time wise. Even if you can throw down a 38/39 10k, they have to run a 50 minute 10k for you to pick them off. That's a huge ask. My own experience is that there are a lot more strong cyclists than there are strong swimmers, at least that is true in my neck of the woods. On how equal the disciplines are, I think it wholly depends on the distance of the race and the competition level. At the national level, I think they are fairly well balanced. At the local level, it pays to put in the time to beef up your speed on the bike otherwise you'll lose too much ground. Wait a minute......the guys coming in with a 26-27 minute swim, a 60-65 minute bike, and a 38-39 run are burying people in Oly triathlons?? In what world? That's what you just said. BEST case scenario in your example (with a 60 minute bike), with a one minute t1 and t2 (which is generous) is 2:06. That guy is solid, but nobody who trains well gets buried by him.
Hmm, let me try this another way. A strong swimmer is putting five maybe six minutes into a decent swimmer. A strong cyclist is putting 10-12 minutes into a decent cyclist. Thus, at the Olympic distance, I would say the bike is certainly more important than the swim. |
| 2015-04-02 7:46 PM in reply to: 0 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: 3 disciplines but not equal Originally posted by ziggie204 Originally posted by Left Brain Hmm, let me try this another way. A strong swimmer is putting five maybe six minutes into a decent swimmer. A strong cyclist is putting 10-12 minutes into a decent cyclist. Thus, at the Olympic distance, I would say the bike is certainly more important than the swim. Originally posted by ziggie204 I think it's harder to 'win' the race on the swim, but you can certainly put a down payment on the 'w' if you're a strong swimmer (ex-club/school swimmer). However, you can certainly 'lose' the race on the swim if you're giving up too much time to guys on the front. So the swim, if we are talking about local competition (leaving out national/regional races) is important to some extent but not remotely as important as it is when you get to the national/regional level. At the local level, its pretty rare to have a group of guys putting down 19/22 minute 1500's. Usually, the first guy is coming out of the drink in 23-24 and that is only going to put him a few minutes ahead of the main pack. Even the guys who do put down a 20/21 time . . . they are probably only getting 5-6 minute head start of the main field. At the national level, the races get much tighter, so those minutes gained in the swim become so much more critical. At the local level the strong cyclists can bury you. If you average 21/22 mph, which is a pretty good clip, you're coming in around 77 minutes-ish. The strong men will lay down a 60/65 minute 40k and crush you time wise. Even if you can throw down a 38/39 10k, they have to run a 50 minute 10k for you to pick them off. That's a huge ask. My own experience is that there are a lot more strong cyclists than there are strong swimmers, at least that is true in my neck of the woods. On how equal the disciplines are, I think it wholly depends on the distance of the race and the competition level. At the national level, I think they are fairly well balanced. At the local level, it pays to put in the time to beef up your speed on the bike otherwise you'll lose too much ground. Wait a minute......the guys coming in with a 26-27 minute swim, a 60-65 minute bike, and a 38-39 run are burying people in Oly triathlons?? In what world? That's what you just said. BEST case scenario in your example (with a 60 minute bike), with a one minute t1 and t2 (which is generous) is 2:06. That guy is solid, but nobody who trains well gets buried by him.
Sure.....unless the guy with the fast swim can bike just a few minutes behind the "strong" cyclist.....then he just got beat in the swim. You know that a "strong" cyclist is NOT putting 10-12 minutes on a "decent" cyclist in a 24 mile bike. HIM.....sure.....Oly, not so much. Edited by Left Brain 2015-04-02 7:47 PM |
| 2015-04-02 7:49 PM in reply to: ziggie204 |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: 3 disciplines but not equal Originally posted by ziggie204 Originally posted by Left Brain Hmm, let me try this another way. A strong swimmer is putting five maybe six minutes into a decent swimmer. A strong cyclist is putting 10-12 minutes into a decent cyclist. Thus, at the Olympic distance, I would say the bike is certainly more important than the swim. Originally posted by ziggie204 I think it's harder to 'win' the race on the swim, but you can certainly put a down payment on the 'w' if you're a strong swimmer (ex-club/school swimmer). However, you can certainly 'lose' the race on the swim if you're giving up too much time to guys on the front. So the swim, if we are talking about local competition (leaving out national/regional races) is important to some extent but not remotely as important as it is when you get to the national/regional level. At the local level, its pretty rare to have a group of guys putting down 19/22 minute 1500's. Usually, the first guy is coming out of the drink in 23-24 and that is only going to put him a few minutes ahead of the main pack. Even the guys who do put down a 20/21 time . . . they are probably only getting 5-6 minute head start of the main field. At the national level, the races get much tighter, so those minutes gained in the swim become so much more critical. At the local level the strong cyclists can bury you. If you average 21/22 mph, which is a pretty good clip, you're coming in around 77 minutes-ish. The strong men will lay down a 60/65 minute 40k and crush you time wise. Even if you can throw down a 38/39 10k, they have to run a 50 minute 10k for you to pick them off. That's a huge ask. My own experience is that there are a lot more strong cyclists than there are strong swimmers, at least that is true in my neck of the woods. On how equal the disciplines are, I think it wholly depends on the distance of the race and the competition level. At the national level, I think they are fairly well balanced. At the local level, it pays to put in the time to beef up your speed on the bike otherwise you'll lose too much ground. Wait a minute......the guys coming in with a 26-27 minute swim, a 60-65 minute bike, and a 38-39 run are burying people in Oly triathlons?? In what world? That's what you just said. BEST case scenario in your example (with a 60 minute bike), with a one minute t1 and t2 (which is generous) is 2:06. That guy is solid, but nobody who trains well gets buried by him.
if you are losing 6 minutes or 12 minutes to someone ANYWHERE in an olympic tri, you weren't in the conversation to begin with. If you want to compare FOP to MOP, then yes, the bike might be "worth more" but if you compare FOP to other FOP, you gain and lose similar amounts of time across disciplines. |
| 2015-04-02 7:55 PM in reply to: dmiller5 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: 3 disciplines but not equal Originally posted by dmiller5 Originally posted by ziggie204 Originally posted by Left Brain Hmm, let me try this another way. A strong swimmer is putting five maybe six minutes into a decent swimmer. A strong cyclist is putting 10-12 minutes into a decent cyclist. Thus, at the Olympic distance, I would say the bike is certainly more important than the swim. Originally posted by ziggie204 I think it's harder to 'win' the race on the swim, but you can certainly put a down payment on the 'w' if you're a strong swimmer (ex-club/school swimmer). However, you can certainly 'lose' the race on the swim if you're giving up too much time to guys on the front. So the swim, if we are talking about local competition (leaving out national/regional races) is important to some extent but not remotely as important as it is when you get to the national/regional level. At the local level, its pretty rare to have a group of guys putting down 19/22 minute 1500's. Usually, the first guy is coming out of the drink in 23-24 and that is only going to put him a few minutes ahead of the main pack. Even the guys who do put down a 20/21 time . . . they are probably only getting 5-6 minute head start of the main field. At the national level, the races get much tighter, so those minutes gained in the swim become so much more critical. At the local level the strong cyclists can bury you. If you average 21/22 mph, which is a pretty good clip, you're coming in around 77 minutes-ish. The strong men will lay down a 60/65 minute 40k and crush you time wise. Even if you can throw down a 38/39 10k, they have to run a 50 minute 10k for you to pick them off. That's a huge ask. My own experience is that there are a lot more strong cyclists than there are strong swimmers, at least that is true in my neck of the woods. On how equal the disciplines are, I think it wholly depends on the distance of the race and the competition level. At the national level, I think they are fairly well balanced. At the local level, it pays to put in the time to beef up your speed on the bike otherwise you'll lose too much ground. Wait a minute......the guys coming in with a 26-27 minute swim, a 60-65 minute bike, and a 38-39 run are burying people in Oly triathlons?? In what world? That's what you just said. BEST case scenario in your example (with a 60 minute bike), with a one minute t1 and t2 (which is generous) is 2:06. That guy is solid, but nobody who trains well gets buried by him.
if you are losing 6 minutes or 12 minutes to someone ANYWHERE in an olympic tri, you weren't in the conversation to begin with. If you want to compare FOP to MOP, then yes, the bike might be "worth more" but if you compare FOP to other FOP, you gain and lose similar amounts of time across disciplines. That's right. This conversation was fun and a good way to pass the day......but in the end it's bogus. If you can't swim well, bike well, and run well you aren't standing on any overall podium, and damn few AG podiums. It's triathlon......equal means you do all three well. If you don't, yeah, you can whine about how one is disproportional to the others. |
| 2015-04-03 1:26 AM in reply to: Goosedog |
Veteran 2297 Great White North | Subject: RE: 3 disciplines but not equal Originally posted by Goosedog Originally posted by Left Brain Cycling isn't even a benchmark that is used by USAT to mark triathlon talent potential. So what sort of attributes are they looking for? I assume speed in 400m+ in swim and/or 5k+ run (or even down to 800m). Or something else? Ditto for Triathlon Canada. Time standards for Talent ID, Training Centres, Elite cards are all a swim/run formula. |
| 2015-04-03 1:53 AM in reply to: Left Brain |
Veteran 2297 Great White North | Subject: RE: 3 disciplines but not equal Emily Wagner who made the podium at Camtri has a pretty good breaststroke and made Canada Games in Tri and Swimming. times date to 2013... 200 Breaststroke LC- 2:36.11 100 Breaststroke LC- 1:13.74 50 Breaststroke LC- 34.21 |
| 2015-04-03 1:56 AM in reply to: yazmaster |
Veteran 2297 Great White North | Subject: RE: 3 disciplines but not equal Originally posted by yazmaster FWIW, Alan Webb was an excellent youth swimmer. http://triathlon.competitor.com/2014/01/news/alan-webb-becomes-a-triathlete_92928 How fast of a swimmer were you back then? My wife has a blog and wanted to do a post on it, so she did a bunch of research on my swimming recently. All my PR’s are from 1998 and are in short-course yards (25-yard pool). 1:00.79 100 breaststroke 2:12.09 200 breaststroke 2:00.1 200 IM 4:11.99 400 IM 447 500 freestyle 16:44.4 1650 freestyle All those times were within 72 hours from one meet and all came after a prelim round except the 1650. But I agree - it's wayyyy easier to hit that swim target of 2:15 SCY 200 than a 4:08 mile. Like not even close in terms of difficulty - a majority of HS competitive swimmers could hit that SCY target, but very few competitive high school runners can throw down a 4:08 mile. Converts to 2:32 LCM in 200 Breast... meh... |
| 2015-04-03 2:00 AM in reply to: Left Brain |
Veteran 2297 Great White North | Subject: RE: 3 disciplines but not equal Local races go like this... First in the swim usually by at least 2 minutes ... Top 4 to 6 in the bike lose by under 1 min to overall contenders, usually 1-2 outlier who can't swim for Run top 10 but try to minimize damage... |
| 2015-04-03 7:33 AM in reply to: sactowntriathlete |
| 261 | Subject: RE: 3 disciplines but not equal Originally posted by sactowntriathlete Just wondering why out of the three disciplines in triathlon, the bike is so heavily weighted. It seems that the bike takes up over 50% of the race time and the swim takes up less than 20%. I know about the history of the start of the Ironman, but does anyone know why the three disciplines aren't more equally accounted for in a triathlon? Is there a reason the three haven't been balanced out a little over the years? I would think the swim would be the deal breaker for many triathletes if it was to be lengthened significantly. A lot of age group triathletes just tolerate the swim and try to not lose significant time while conserving energy. And triathlons are a sport the events are also a business and I think you would start losing participants if you really started lengthening the swim regardless of whether it's fair or not. For me, I consider myself a MOP triathlete so the way I train is more on the bike and run since 1) they are larger percentage of the race where I will lose or gain the most time 2) it's far easier to get my workouts in for a bike or run. I can just walk out the front door to run or bike. Swimming I have to find some pool that has open lanes and drive to it. So obviously less convenient. 3) Swimming seems to involve much more technique. To really improve I feel like I would need a coach to work with me on my technique. Triathlons are a hobby for me. At this point, I don't feel like spending the money on a coach to help me with that. Maybe as I get further in that will change. |
| 2015-04-03 8:01 AM in reply to: simpsonbo |
Master 2912 ...at home in The ATL | Subject: RE: 3 disciplines but not equal Originally posted by simpsonbo Originally posted by Goosedog Ditto for Triathlon Canada. Time standards for Talent ID, Training Centres, Elite cards are all a swim/run formula. Originally posted by Left Brain Cycling isn't even a benchmark that is used by USAT to mark triathlon talent potential. So what sort of attributes are they looking for? I assume speed in 400m+ in swim and/or 5k+ run (or even down to 800m). Or something else? Bo and LB, am I mis-remembering that until somewhat recently cycling actually did used to be one of the benchmarks (at least for USAT) in youth and junior talent, but was dropped because of lack of equipment accessibly (primarily power meters) and not simply because it was not a good measure of future potential? FWIW that in no way changes my own experience that the swim matters significantly in a direct way at the sprint and Olympic distance, as well as significantly (albeit collaterally) in long-course racing. I do prefer to race against others that continue to believe differently. |
| 2015-04-03 8:10 AM in reply to: 0 |
Member 5452 NC | Subject: RE: 3 disciplines but not equal Originally posted by simpsonbo Ditto for Triathlon Canada. Time standards for Talent ID, Training Centres, Elite cards are all a swim/run formula. I'm live-streaming the Team Canada Trials today. Important question, what's up with Lane 0 being a thing? Edited by Goosedog 2015-04-03 8:10 AM |
| 2015-04-03 8:14 AM in reply to: TankBoy |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: 3 disciplines but not equal Originally posted by TankBoy Originally posted by simpsonbo Originally posted by Goosedog Ditto for Triathlon Canada. Time standards for Talent ID, Training Centres, Elite cards are all a swim/run formula. Originally posted by Left Brain Cycling isn't even a benchmark that is used by USAT to mark triathlon talent potential. So what sort of attributes are they looking for? I assume speed in 400m+ in swim and/or 5k+ run (or even down to 800m). Or something else? Bo and LB, am I mis-remembering that until somewhat recently cycling actually did used to be one of the benchmarks (at least for USAT) in youth and junior talent, but was dropped because of lack of equipment accessibly (primarily power meters) and not simply because it was not a good measure of future potential? FWIW that in no way changes my own experience that the swim matters significantly in a direct way at the sprint and Olympic distance, as well as significantly (albeit collaterally) in long-course racing. I do prefer to race against others that continue to believe differently. I think a perfect example was 2011 70.3 World champs. Laurent Jalabert, TDF stage winner, came out of the water about 8min down and of course killed everyone on the bike and ended up 3rd. He beat Bryan Dunn by 1 spot. As a HIM he came 3rd. As an Oly, he would have come probably 4th of 5th. Yes, you can have a weaker swim IF you can ride like Jalabert and the longer the course. Not many can ride like him. He swam a 38min HIM. Pretty bad The guy that came 5th behind Bryan would have been 3rd in an Oly. |
| 2015-04-03 8:15 AM in reply to: Goosedog |
Master 2912 ...at home in The ATL | Subject: RE: 3 disciplines but not equal Originally posted by Goosedog Originally posted by simpsonbo Ditto for Triathlon Canada. Time standards for Talent ID, Training Centres, Elite cards are all a swim/run formula. I'm live-streaming the Team Canada Trials today. Important question, what's up with Lane 0 being a thing? wait, THAT is thing you find funny about Canadian athletics? (Oh, c'mon folks, I kid, I kid. and I meant to say welcome back, Goose - you have been sorely missed). |
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