Why latex tubes? (Page 2)

Look, there is no way someone riding in a pack in a crit race or DL triathlon gets the same watt advantage as someone TT'ing just by using latex tubes......NO WAY.  (I'm saying no way from my experience watching A LOT of DL racing up to the very top level) Just show me some race numbers and I'll change my mind. 

And now it's 9 watts???  No.  But you can bet I'm going to be bending a lot of ears this weekend.....coaches, racers, etc.  We'll see.

Good discussion again......thanks.

I don't understand why you think riding in a pack would change the rolling resistance of the tire/tube?  It's obviously a very different race than a steady TT effort but any time he's applying power to the pedals he has to overcome that rolling resistance to achieve whatever speed he needs to ride in the pack.  The latex tubes just make the power required a little bit less.  The power savings go up with speed as well so one could argue the savings are even greater for him than someone in a regular Tri where speeds are lower.

Let's be honest here.....in a sprint race of roughly 25 minutes that is full of hell bent jumps and pack riding and maybe 20-30  90 or 180 degree turns......the power saved by latex tubes is not a little bit less......it's almost non-existent. 

And I'd be willing to bet that in real world applications....using average AG bikers even in a TT on a dead straight and flat road.....the resulting gain would be equally negligible. Hell, most people can't even ride in a straight line.

There are a number of things that have small, single digit gains that are cumulative. Add them together and the difference does become notable.

I think I'll mount up his race wheels with latex tubes after this race.....and we'll see what he thinks or if he even feels a difference.  I get the argument you guys are making, but I'm obviously skeptical about the trouble of dealing with them.....especially in a situation where they sit for a month between races, and the type of racing to be done on them. The possible gains just seem too small to care about. Does latex break down any more than butyl when left in the tires?  Do we need to take them out between races?  I've had them in my hand and just thought, no, this is not going to hold up over time and sure as hell he's going to end up flatted when it counts.  Plus I'm old......change is hard.

I understand LB's logic on this.  Either I'm going way above FTP in a road race or I'm coasting, so 8 watts doesn't seem like a big deal.  With that said, I am planning on trying latex for my omnium this weekend to see how it goes.

And that's why I think most of this stuff is quackery.

In a real world example I know what his TT time was with a disc and without a disc......and it's basically an average over 8 races......3 with and 5 without.  It wasn't even close.  He was nearly 1:30 minutes faster over 10 miles with the disc.  No, I didn't take into account wind or humidity or the price of tea in China....just an average of all the races.  I don't have a calculator, but I'm pretty damn sure 1.5 minutes over 10 miles is more than 10 watts.  In his only AG triathlon last year with a disc he absolutely crushed everyone in the bike leg (Chicago ITU)....he doesn't typically do that....he's usually top 1-2%, but never at the very top.  I'm sorry, but that's more than 10 watts.

Bikes are different, riders are different, races are different......we'll try latex....but the gains or losses will be what they are.....not what some test says they are.

And that's why I think most of this stuff is quackery.

In a real world example I know what his TT time was with a disc and without a disc......and it's basically an average over 8 races......3 with and 5 without.  It wasn't even close.  He was nearly 1:30 minutes faster over 10 miles with the disc.  No, I didn't take into account wind or humidity or the price of tea in China....just an average of all the races.  I don't have a calculator, but I'm pretty damn sure 1.5 minutes over 10 miles is more than 10 watts.  In his only AG triathlon last year with a disc he absolutely crushed everyone in the bike leg (Chicago ITU)....he doesn't typically do that....he's usually top 1-2%, but never at the very top.  I'm sorry, but that's more than 10 watts.

Bikes are different, riders are different, races are different......we'll try latex....but the gains or losses will be what they are.....not what some test says they are.

What's really 'quackery' is your 'analysis'.  You can try latex and decide you like them or not.  But the physics involved here is pretty solid--they will make the bike faster, all else equal.  And it's probably less complicated than with aerodynamics (note that not taking account wind speed and direction is part of what makes your 'analysis' akin to 'quackery').

Yeah, it's the "all else equal" part that makes me laugh.

I think I'll mount up his race wheels with latex tubes after this race.....and we'll see what he thinks or if he even feels a difference.  I get the argument you guys are making, but I'm obviously skeptical about the trouble of dealing with them.....especially in a situation where they sit for a month between races, and the type of racing to be done on them. The possible gains just seem too small to care about. Does latex break down any more than butyl when left in the tires?  Do we need to take them out between races?  I've had them in my hand and just thought, no, this is not going to hold up over time and sure as hell he's going to end up flatted when it counts.  Plus I'm old......change is hard.

And that's why I think most of this stuff is quackery.

In a real world example I know what his TT time was with a disc and without a disc......and it's basically an average over 8 races......3 with and 5 without.  It wasn't even close.  He was nearly 1:30 minutes faster over 10 miles with the disc.  No, I didn't take into account wind or humidity or the price of tea in China....just an average of all the races.  I don't have a calculator, but I'm pretty damn sure 1.5 minutes over 10 miles is more than 10 watts.  In his only AG triathlon last year with a disc he absolutely crushed everyone in the bike leg (Chicago ITU)....he doesn't typically do that....he's usually top 1-2%, but never at the very top.  I'm sorry, but that's more than 10 watts.

Bikes are different, riders are different, races are different......we'll try latex....but the gains or losses will be what they are.....not what some test says they are.

Yeah, it's the "all else equal" part that makes me laugh.