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wetsuit "assist" equal to pool wall "assist"?
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 2015-05-01 5:45 PM |
Regular  134   Oregon |  Subject: wetsuit "assist" equal to pool wall "assist"?I'm wondering about transitioning from pool to open water and the relative ease that a wetsuit brings and how that compares to being able to push off the pool wall and "glide" for a few feet every 25 yards. I've done a few open water swims with my wetsuit on (about 8 including my races) but by far the majority of my swimming has been in the pool so sometimes I worry that I'm relying on pushing off the wall too much, or resting at the wall too much. But maybe that will be overcome by the buoyancy of my wetsuit? anybody have any thoughts to how these 2 factors relate to the overall difficulty of the swim portion? |
| 2015-05-01 8:11 PM in reply to: themissj1981 |
Elite 7783   PEI, Canada | Subject: RE: wetsuit "assist" equal to pool wall "assist"? I'm going to say that one has absolutely nothing to do with the other. |
| 2015-05-01 8:30 PM in reply to: themissj1981 |
| Subject: RE: wetsuit "assist" equal to pool wall "assist"? I'd say any benefit of pushing off a wall in a pool swim is negated completely by the washing machine of a wave start and the vagaries of an OW swim- current, waves, sighting, accuracy in distance, where the timing mat is, etc. You can't relate the two, I would not try to. I can easily hold times well below 1:30 / 100 in the pool. Often in races I have a 100 "split" > 1:30 /100 and am still FOP. |
| 2015-05-01 9:06 PM in reply to: ChrisM |
Master 8247 Eugene, Oregon Bronze member | Subject: RE: wetsuit "assist" equal to pool wall "assist"? True--pool times and OWS times are really apples and oranges. In the pool I can hold 1:40-1:42 in a continuous swim of Oly to IM distance. In open water, it's ranged from 1:45 to 2:00/100m, and I'm generally one of the top 6 or so women out of the water. (Caveat--the 2:00ish races are in open ocean, with no wetsuit, in rough water.) Oddly, my splits for longer races, with or without wetsuit, are often faster than shorter ones. I'm guessing it's because I can spend more time in the clear rather than going around people. OWS courses are often not accurate, either. There's one race (with calm water) I've done a couple of times where the male pro's pace is about equal to my pool 1500 pace, if the course was accurate. Somehow I doubt it! Wetsuits tend to provide more "help" to less proficient swimmers because they enable a better body position and thus more efficient stroke. In a strong swimmer, the body position's already good, so it makes less of a difference. As for pushing off the wall, never noticed. I do flip turns and normally train in a 25m pool. I always feel like I'd be faster in a 50m pool or calm open water without people in my way, because it feels to me like the turns waste time; I also don't like how they mess up my breathing rhythm on a long effort. Hopefully you are not powering off the wall like an Olympic sprinter when you train, so it shouldn't make that much difference. You do need to be mentally prepared for the fact that you can't rest at the wall in OWS! In a few cases (swallowing water, coughing when I raced when I was sick), I've "rested" by hanging onto the course rope, or treading water, or you can hold onto a non-moving kayak, but you shouldn't be counting on them to be there if/when you need them. |
| 2015-05-02 10:09 AM in reply to: Hot Runner |
Veteran 2842 Austin, Texas | Subject: RE: wetsuit "assist" equal to pool wall "assist"? Yeah, agree that they're not related in the way suggested by the question (caveat, I'm an "adult onset swimmer," so take all this with some NaCl). Wetsuit to non-wetsuit and open to flip turns are relationships that matter in OWS and pool swim, respectively, but they don't (near as I can tell) cross over with each other. FWIW, I'm usually faster in open water (even without a wetsuit) than in a pool, but that's because I haven't learned how to do flip turns (yet - will work on that one this month in masters). So, I don't compare absolute paces / times from open to pool. I compare pool times to pool times (for training purposes of getting a certain amount of training stress or measuring improvements) and then assume those will translate into similar gains/losses in OWS, but that's as far as I go in comparing one to the other. Not an entirely different kettle of fish, as they're both swimming, but I just don't find absolute pace comparisons useful for what I'm trying to do... only the relative improvements. Matt |
| 2015-05-02 3:09 PM in reply to: themissj1981 |
Veteran 2297 Great White North | Subject: RE: wetsuit "assist" equal to pool wall "assist"? Depends on the swimmer and what size of pool (25Y/25m vs 50m). Swimmers with an elite/college swimming history will probably be faster in a short course pool vs open water with a wetsuit. Part of the trouble is open water is notorius for not being accurate. A good push off every 25m/Y plus kicks means I can be 7 metres down the pool in under 3 seconds ( More like 2 sec) |
| 2015-05-02 6:17 PM in reply to: axteraa |
Champion 7036 Sarasota, FL | Subject: RE: wetsuit "assist" equal to pool wall "assist"? Originally posted by axteraa I'm going to say that one has absolutely nothing to do with the other.
x2 |
| 2015-05-02 9:52 PM in reply to: RedCorvette |
| 1508 Cypress, Texas | Subject: RE: wetsuit "assist" equal to pool wall "assist"? I started swim training for my first Triathlon in January. I have never been on a swim team and so I don't bother with flip turns or pushing off the wall when I am in a pool. I just touch the wall with my hand and turn around. About a month before my triathlon I was swimming right at 2:00 min/100 meter in the 20 meter pool where I train. In an 1,000 meter open water swim 3 weeks before my race I swam with out a wet suit and my pace for the swim was 2:06 min/100m. The following week I did the exact same 1,000 meter open water swim in my wet suit and I was 1:48 min/100m. At my triathlon I swam my 1.2 mile swim leg in a 1:41 min/meter pace. For me the full wet suit is about 15% faster than without. The improvements will be different for everyone as noted by others above, but that should give you an idea of what a wet suit might do for your swim time. Note: My open water swim and race were both in lakes. |
| 2015-05-03 12:12 PM in reply to: BlueBoy26 |
Regular 134 Oregon | Subject: RE: wetsuit "assist" equal to pool wall "assist"? Originally posted by BlueBoy26 I started swim training for my first Triathlon in January. I have never been on a swim team and so I don't bother with flip turns or pushing off the wall when I am in a pool. I just touch the wall with my hand and turn around. About a month before my triathlon I was swimming right at 2:00 min/100 meter in the 20 meter pool where I train. In an 1,000 meter open water swim 3 weeks before my race I swam with out a wet suit and my pace for the swim was 2:06 min/100m. The following week I did the exact same 1,000 meter open water swim in my wet suit and I was 1:48 min/100m. At my triathlon I swam my 1.2 mile swim leg in a 1:41 min/meter pace. For me the full wet suit is about 15% faster than without. The improvements will be different for everyone as noted by others above, but that should give you an idea of what a wet suit might do for your swim time. Note: My open water swim and race were both in lakes. thanks! I guess that was the kind of info I was curious about. All of my open water swims are WITH a wetsuit (because this is Oregon) so I have had a hard time gauging the time differences and "perceived effort" differences between pool swimming and OWS since I always have a wetsuit for OWS. I started swim training for triathlon 2.5 years ago I started as an adult non-swimmer who could not put my face in the water. So I've come a long ways but I'm still slow as hell. But I think I have developed mostly the right form. I am on the masters swim team and this month the coach has been making me learn flip turns both freestyle and backstroke flip turns. I can do them, but they significantly increase the difficulty/suffering/perceived effort and I think that at least for now, they actually slow me down. But soon enough they'll be improving my times I think. |
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