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Angling up aerobars
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 2015-09-23 12:08 PM |
Pro  6582     Melbourne FL Gold member |  Subject: Angling up aerobarsTom Demerly post this on the other site. Interesting results, mostly gains, in angling up AB about 12* or so, even with base bars that need to be angled with the AB. http://ero-sports.com/index.php/aeropositioning/78-are-you-angling-for-more-comfort-speed
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| 2015-09-23 12:16 PM in reply to: Donto |
Expert 2852  Pfafftown, NC | Subject: RE: Angling up aerobars I'm gonna be dead honest with you......I still get nervous switching from one position to the next. My hands that far away from the brake levers???? I would need a bite stick!  |
| 2015-09-23 2:17 PM in reply to: nc452010 |
Pro 6582 Melbourne FL Gold member | Subject: RE: Angling up aerobars LOL, #2 was the best overall, not that much a of a difference. #3 tested fastest in the tunnel but not so outdoors or maybe it was the track. I wouldn't dare use that |
| 2015-09-23 3:59 PM in reply to: Donto |
| Oakville | Subject: RE: Angling up aerobars TJ Tollakson has a set up similar to no. 3. I'll have to check when I get home, but I think I'm somewhere between 1 and 2. Unfortunately, they didn't test with an aero mounted water bottle. I expect that the extra drag of the bottle would negate some or all of the aero gains.
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| 2015-09-23 4:09 PM in reply to: Scott71 |
Pro 6582 Melbourne FL Gold member | Subject: RE: Angling up aerobars True, but I thought one of the main benefits was closing of the hole under the torso. So if a BTA is added then it should reduce that some more. I liked the statement that it helps to lift the head up for better forward looking. This is an issue with my neck problem. Author just wrote on the other forom "...angling of the forearms, especially if you can angle the pads and "lean into" them, "pre-cranes" the cervical spine and relieves the splenius muscles from much of the load of lifting and maintaining the head in the aero position; a task they were never meant to perform" |
| 2015-09-24 7:17 AM in reply to: Donto |
| 360 Ottawa, Ontario | Subject: RE: Angling up aerobars The "mantis" position used by TJ and Jesse Thomas seems to only work for a small number of people, and you have to get it exactly right or it's significantly worse than arms down. According to John Cobb "The Landis and Leipheimer, "raised hands" positions have to be tied to proper elbow-pad placement to build the increased leverage for making better power. This is a position that it is very critical to work out in a very controlled test environment, 95 per cent of all riders that just raise their hands higher will be measurably slower in a wind tunnel, directing the airflow over and around the shoulders really is critical." (http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/archive/how-to-improve-your-aero-position-87444#BToHbfzpSSVSMgJz.99) If you look at the position of guys like Tom Dumoulin or Rohan Dennis, it's more like #2 above - that's probably more reasonable for a lot of people, but you know they've tested it in the wind tunnel too. It's tough for the rest of us since it's just a best guess what will actually be more aero. |
| 2015-09-24 7:25 AM in reply to: SenatorClayDavis |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Angling up aerobars Originally posted by SenatorClayDavis It's tough for the rest of us since it's just a best guess what will actually be more aero. If you have a power meter and you are willing to do some homework you can test this. There is a guy recently that posted his data on ST and he did prove that he was faster in this position |
| 2015-09-24 8:13 AM in reply to: Donto |
| 538 Brooklyn, New York | Subject: RE: Angling up aerobars Originally posted by Donto True, but I thought one of the main benefits was closing of the hole under the torso. So if a BTA is added then it should reduce that some more. I liked the statement that it helps to lift the head up for better forward looking. This is an issue with my neck problem. Author just wrote on the other forom "...angling of the forearms, especially if you can angle the pads and "lean into" them, "pre-cranes" the cervical spine and relieves the splenius muscles from much of the load of lifting and maintaining the head in the aero position; a task they were never meant to perform" This makes serious ergonomic sense. With adjustable clip on shorty bars I can try this |
| 2015-09-24 8:27 AM in reply to: Donto |
Champion 7136 Knoxville area | Subject: RE: Angling up aerobars *slight* raising of the hands (a couple of degrees) is usually ok to at least not bad. Generally that won't get somebody on s or straight bends at more of a "virtual" angle than riding on ski bends. Once you start talking about Mantis positioning though you should be very careful. If it's bad for you, (aerodynamically) it can be VERY bad. The exact ° can be important as well. In my tunnel testing 25° reduced my drag, and 30° increased it. up to 25° did almost nothing from flat. Landis made it popular, but even he says it wasn't his fastest position tested, it was just the one he could sustain with his hip issues. |
| 2015-09-24 10:28 AM in reply to: Leegoocrap |
Regular 1161 Hamilton, IL | Subject: RE: Angling up aerobars I went slightly up with mine because of crazy wrist pain. I went from an S bend on a T2+ profile design aero bar to the S bend bars that came with the Speed Concept so I didn't expect issues like these. Angling up helped a little with the wrist pain, but I just don't know if Id like that angle if I went much higher. |
| 2015-09-27 3:48 PM in reply to: Donto |
Pro 5892 , New Hampshire | Subject: RE: Angling up aerobars The big benefit comes from the hand and forearms making one continuous connection to the head. The chest tend to cause a large amount of drag. The challenge is that with the hands that tight and far up, it can make it a bit more difficult to control the bike. You will also need a stronger core to maintain stable (you have less contact with the elbow cups). If it does work for you, it's a very fast position (the reason why you won't see this in a TT is that the position is illegal under UCI rules). |
| 2015-09-27 4:58 PM in reply to: Scott71 |
Extreme Veteran 586 Richmond | Subject: RE: Angling up aerobars If you think of the headtube area of your bike as somewhere you want air to go, and the "scoop" or area above the arms and below the chest as somewhere you dont want air to go, you can see that having some aero hydration set up within angled bars will likely make the set up moore and not less aero. Field testing has largely shown this to be the case for the majority. At worst it is neutral. |
| 2015-09-27 5:02 PM in reply to: SenatorClayDavis |
Extreme Veteran 586 Richmond | Subject: RE: Angling up aerobars The Alphamantis crew would argue with Cobb's assessment. They are finding nearly all of the quickest positions they test have up angled arms. Which is why the Shiv (pre-recall) and the Speed Concept were consistently giving the best results. Not the fastest framesets, but aerobars that allow angled forearms. |
| 2015-09-27 5:04 PM in reply to: SenatorClayDavis |
Extreme Veteran 586 Richmond | Subject: RE: Angling up aerobars Originally posted by SenatorClayDavis The "mantis" position used by TJ and Jesse Thomas seems to only work for a small number of people, and you have to get it exactly right or it's significantly worse than arms down. According to John Cobb "The Landis and Leipheimer, "raised hands" positions have to be tied to proper elbow-pad placement to build the increased leverage for making better power. This is a position that it is very critical to work out in a very controlled test environment, 95 per cent of all riders that just raise their hands higher will be measurably slower in a wind tunnel, directing the airflow over and around the shoulders really is critical." (http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/archive/how-to-improve-your-aero-position-87444#BToHbfzpSSVSMgJz.99) If you look at the position of guys like Tom Dumoulin or Rohan Dennis, it's more like #2 above - that's probably more reasonable for a lot of people, but you know they've tested it in the wind tunnel too. It's tough for the rest of us since it's just a best guess what will actually be more aero. Grand Tour riders must have the forearms level with the ground, so there is very little room for them to angle them up and no reason for them to test to see if higher is faster. |
| 2015-09-27 6:10 PM in reply to: Finding Freestyle |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: Angling up aerobars umm what, floyd landis didn't....... |
| 2015-09-27 8:17 PM in reply to: dmiller5 |
Champion 7136 Knoxville area | Subject: RE: Angling up aerobars Originally posted by dmiller5 umm what, floyd landis didn't....... rules were changed a few years ago to outlaw those kinds of positions. They laxed a little bit again recently, but the "top of pad to tip of lever" rule still keeps people from having too much angle. |
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