Gray Guys/Girls Master's Focus Triathlon Mentor Group--Now Open (Page 12)

After 2 days of record highs here (77 on Friday, 78 yesterday) we're back to more normal temps today - high around 50ish today, back to 40's the rest of this week.  Still nice enough to get out for a run after my swim this morning though.  Well, more of a walk actually.  I did try to add in a few short run segments but just couldn't keep my HR down.  I'll keep at it though.

Scott - I did my STP test this morning.  400 time was 9:09, 200 time was 4:38 which puts me at 2:15/100 (double check my math on that please).  I'll plug that number into the workouts and see where how things go. 

Hope everyone is having a good weekend!
Janet

Hey Steve,

75 this morning here.  And I DID run at the beach!  I imagine however, that you will have far better beach pictures in 6-weeks.

(Picture is the shared access trail at Carlsbad State Beach where I run 1-2 times/week.  Tough job but somebody has to do it!).

(carlsbad state beach.jpg)

Hi Janet,

Yes, 2:15 is what I get also.  A little tip, when you start looking at the intervals, say for example it says 10 x 100 @ (STP + 3), 20 RI.  When you are figuring out your intervals, the three seconds makes for a difficult send off so I round up to the next 5-second increment.  2:15 + 3 = 2:18, round up to 2:20. Add the rest interval of 20-seconds gives a send-off interval of 2:40.  So, using the send-off interval of 2:40, attempt to maintain a pace of 2:18, which would give you 22 seconds rest between each interval (you will likely find your rest interval gradually decreasing over the set - that means you are doing it right).

Let me know if you have any questions.  Have fun!

Steve - I envy you - a nice slow WARM Oly to look forward to.  The course map looks nice - especially the swim.

AK Dave - Reading your post I realized my 1st race this year is May 1st. Like your 1st race mine is 70 days away as well.  10 weeks will go fast.  Since I retired I can't imagine how I ever had time to work.

Janet - It will be a while before we see mid 70's temps here but we've had a mild winter very much like Steve's.  Our forecast for my run tomorrow is for 45F in sunshine so it will feel balmy.  No trace of snow or ice here except for up on the mountains.

Good luck with controlling your HR while running.  Just curious but what happens if you just run easy without watching your HR - or at least not looking at it until after you finish running?  

Scott - That's a pretty nice looking running trail.

All - I had a pretty good week training wise.  Almost 10.5 hours finishing early yesterday with a 2:35 trainer bike ride.  Best of the whole week was today, my rest day.  It was a guilty pleasure to sleep in and take a nap in the afternoon.  Of all my workouts I think I'm best at resting.

Tomorrow is a swim day and a 50 minute run.  Looking forward to it.

Hi Jenny!

When I read your post, I first thought you might be British as I sensed a bit of an accent..  My bad as I see you are in Scotland!

Welcome to the group!  Yes, we have space and are happy to have you with us.  I remember a time when swimming across the pool was a major challenge and running was more like REALLY slow walking.  We all started somewhere so yes, there absolutely is hope!

As to you not being very fit, you have a black belt.  My grand-daughter recently got her black belt and I have been to a couple of her matches.  If you are doing what she does you must be reasonably fit - don't shortchange yourself.  It may not be specific swim, bike, or run fitness, but it is better than coming off of the couch with absolutely nothing but watching TV.

The pain in your back while running may be improper form, or it could be the shoes you are wearing to name a couple of the most common reasons.  Since you have been active with Karate and I assume have had no back issues, it seems clear the pain is directly related to the running.  Do you have "real" running shoes?  That is generally the first thing, go to a store that specializes in running and have them help you choose the proper shoe.  The wrong shoe can lead to all sorts of aches and pains, not to mention injury if the shoes you are using are just WRONG for you.  The next thing that causes pain or injury is increasing your mileage to quickly.  It sounds like you might be following a couch-to-5K type program that advances through run/walk workouts with increasingly longer runs and shorter walks.  Those are wonderful programs to get started.  Don't be afraid to repeat a week if you aren't comfortable advancing the run interval - or if you are having minor pain.  It isn't uncommon to have some aches and pains when you first start actually training with a purpose.  The trick is telling when it is a minor pain from working out, and something you can train through; or something more serious requiring time off from training and/or a visit to a physician.

We have a great bunch of people here in the Gray Guys/Gals Group that are happy to ask questions.  Please don't hesitate to ask if you have any.

Hi all ... started out my week on Monday with some recovery from weekend skiing.  This was my last planned ski trip for the season and the warmer weather is added verification.  The mornings began with semi-frozen snow and had turned to pure slush by the day's end.

Spent some time on the trainer yesterday to determine cycling max power.  This was via a nice 20 minute warm-up; 20 minute all out effort (almost to the puke level); and a 5-10 minute cool down.  Plan to do another session today.

Scott, I've revamped my training plan and put several hi-intensity sessions together for weekly cycling.  My plan is based on 4 sessions per week ... 3 hi-intensity and 1 endurance, and increasing the session duration over time and warmer weather (outside riding).

Have a good week all ... and welcome to the group Jenny !

George - If I don't pay attention to my HR and just run, I tend to go way too fast for a training run, even when I'm trying to do an easy run.  So I've been trying to keep my HR down due to some recurring injuries and just to put a little more structure into my run training.  It's been a little frustrating - I want to go "fast" (relative term since "fast" for me is about a 10mm), but I also want to be able to get through my races feeling good and staying healthy.  So it's a bit of a trade-off, but one that I hope will pay off in the end. 

Janet

I've put together a cycling plan with varying levels of intensity and my plan is to work in 4 cycling sessions per week.  3 sessions will be hard effort and one will be an easier, endurance session ... hopefully the weather will help and I can get in a long outside ride for the endurance session.  The harder sessions vary in effort wherein time spent at 100%-115% max effort varies from 60% of the time downward, 90%, 80%, 70% max effort yada yada yada. 

Is there a good mix between the hard sessions on a weekly basis; i.e. one really hard session - one 'medium' hard session - one 'easier' hard session + a long ride?  Does it matter?  What are the groups thoughts on this?

Hey Tony,

Proper training is about achieving a balance.  We can manipulate intensity - how hard we are working out; duration - how far we are running, cycling, or swimming; and frequency - how many times in a given period we are doing the exercise.  How we combine those factors gives us our total training volume.  A consideration however, is that as one factor goes up, another factor must come down in order to maintain a balance.  As intensity of a workout rises, the volume must come down - maintaining a balance.  If you do intense workouts every day, in a relatively short period of time you will likely become "over-trained" with the associated risks - burnout, injury potential, loss of fitness.  On the other hand, if all you do is short easy workouts every day, you will likely not improve or improve very slowly.

What's missing here is talk of recovery.  Training volume MUST be balanced with recovery for physiological adaptations to take place.  Meaning, if you don't allow for FULL recovery, you will never improve, indeed you could find yourself going backwards and actually losing fitness.

Let me explain.

During and after an intense workout there is a breakdown of muscle fibers, a depletion of naturally occurring substances in the body (glycogen, enzymes, ATP, etc.), and a build-up of metabolic by-products (accumulation of lactate and protons), leaving the body and nervous system in a state of fatigue post workout.

The body strives to maintain a state of “homeostasis,” or balance - the body’s tendency to maintain internal stability and balance through the coordinated response of its parts to any situation or stimulus that would tend to disturb its normal condition or function.

From that post-workout state of fatigue the body immediately begins to return to homeostasis by flushing metabolic by-products, replenishing glycogen stores, creating ATP, and rebuilding the muscle fibers, enzymes, mitochondria, and nervous system through an increase in protein synthesis. That period from fatigue back to the pre-workout baseline fitness level is known as “compensation” or recovery.  Now, here is where we see just how incredible the human body truly is – the body anticipates future physical needs and has the ability to adapt and grow stronger. If an athlete allows for FULL and proper recovery from that initial fatigue BEFORE the NEXT workout, he/she may then achieve supercompensation. Supercompensation refers to the post training period during which the trained function/parameter has a higher performance capacity than it did prior to the training period.  In layman's terms, you get stronger and faster.

Recovery then is the path to supercompensation - or getting faster and stronger.

The "art" of training is applying the next dose of appropriate training stress at that precise moment of supercompensation so your are building from that new "super-compensated" fitness baseline.  (See two attached photos below).

If all you do is hard workouts, you will never allow your body to return to the fitness baseline and your fitness will stair-step down to overtraining.

If you achieve a proper balance of training and recovery, followed by the application of additional appropriate training stress at the moment of supercompensation, you will stair-step to greater fitness.

So yes, the short answer is, there is a "proper balance" of hard, easy, and moderate workouts.

In case you missed this, a couple weeks ago I gave an example of what a typical week might look like..  If you look at the workout examples, you can see it alternates challenging workouts with easier workouts.  I put the last section in bold as it may be the most important part.

I typically have one long zone 2 endurance ride each week (ex. - 210' @ 60-70% FTP) which I generally get to do outdoors because I am in sunny Southern California. Then I do three rides per week on my trainer, typically one of those rides is an over-under interval ride (ex. - 5 x 9' intervals (3 x (1' @ 95% FTP, 2' @ 105% FTP)) w/6' recovery @ 55% FTP between interval sets); the remaining two rides I alternate between the following types of workout:

VO2 MAX intervals - (ex. - 6 x 3' @ 120% FTP w/3' recovery @ 50% FTP)
Sweet spot intervals - (ex. - 4 x 12' @ 85-90% FTP w/9' recovery at 50% FTP)
Tempo ride - (ex. - 90' @ 75-80% FTP)
Threshold intervals - (4 x 15' @ 95-99% FTP w/3' recovery at 60% FTP)

I alternate VO2 MAX/Threshold interval workouts with tempo/sweet spot workouts based on what the rest of my training week looks like - VO2 MAX and Threshold intervals can create a great deal of residual fatigue so I take care not to impact other key workouts that week. Recovery weeks I do all four rides as Z1-2 recovery/endurance rides.

 Hope all of that helps a little bit.

(supercompensation.jpg)

(supercompensation over time.jpg)

Thanks Scott, and yes this helps.  I'm working with about 6-8 different interval workouts (similar to ones you listed) and did not know how was best to 'stack' these back-to-back or schedule these for a given week.  From your suggestion I should "alternate a V02 MAX/Threshold workout with a slightly less intense tempo/sweet spot workout".  Currently, my week looks like:

• one intense workout (VO2 Max or Threshold)
• two SST - Tempo workouts
• one long endurance (65%-70%) 

I'd like to do back-to-back days with VO2 Max-Threshold and SST or Tempo.  Follow this with 1-2 days rest, then do another SST or Tempo workout, with next day long endurance ride.  Right now, I can only stand one very intense session/week. And yes I do appreciate the importance of recovery.

I'll also schedule another 20 minute TT after about 3-weeks and adjust power levels accordingly.  Do you feel the 3-weeks is too soon or too late?  For  my 'rest' days between cycling workouts, I work in some run & swim sessions, depending on how much mojo I have in the tank.

Scott - I've done a couple of workouts using this and I have a question.  When I do the 100's, I'm finishing them faster than the 2:18-2:20 that I'm supposed to be doing.  This morning the plan called for 6 x 100 @ STP +5, 20" RI (after w/u and 2 x 200 pull).  I did the first couple in about 2:05 each, closer to 2:10 for the others (I tried to slow down for those).  So I ended up with 30-35" RI instead of the 20".  Should I stay with the 2:40 sendoffs or shorten the rest interval so I'm only getting 20" rest?  Or do I try to slow down the 100's so I'm hitting the 2:18-2:20?  Is it possible the test that I did was inaccurate - it was done at a different pool than where I usually swim?  I've only done 2 workouts so far but just want to make sure I'm doing it correctly.
Thanks

Janet

Hello All,

I am not posting much but reading your posts for inspiration. I am plugging away trying to build some distance and stay healthy for a 1/2 marathon May 1. I have tris on my calendar for the summer months and will add my swimming in next month. There is a 3 race series I want to complete in Aug, Sept and November. I just need to get over my fear of sharks to get back in the water

Hey Dan,

I think we were in a mentor group a few years back together. Nice to see a familiar face. 

Have a great weekend.

Hi Janet,

You should try and slow your pace a bit more while keeping proper form.  That may be a challenge as you go slower, but that will be the best way to accomplish what the goal of this type of workout is.  That said, don't slow your pace so much that your technique breaks down because you are going so slowly.  For the purposes of the workout, whatever your pace is, keep the rest at 20-seconds.  That is why these workouts are written with a specific rest interval rather than a calculated send-off interval.  These particular swims are comparable to the long duration slow runs, those low Z2 endurance runs.  lf I recall you are following the Sprint Base plan from my website.  Most of those workouts are designed to build aerobic base.  If you look at the workouts in the Sprint Build plan, you will see that the paces are faster and the rest intervals shorter, which will develop speed.

Hope that helps explain it a little better.

I too have been quiet for a while.  Just working out pretty steady and getting anxious to do some races (can't wait to write some race reports).

I've been working out steady and having fun.  I only have 4 more indoor cycling sessions before we hope we can start riding outside.  Tonight our main set was 7# Over/ Unders.  Each interval was 4 minutes at Zn 4 then Zn 3 and repeat up to 7 times (total 28 minutes).  This was a hard class and my thighs were burning at the end.  The whole hour session went by so fast I couldn't believe it.  Strangely, a couple hours later I feel really good - maybe a bit of endorphins to make me feel good.  Actually, I seem to get endorphins with swimming and running as well - I feel pretty good after most workouts.

I signed up for an Easter weekend cycling camp.  4 days of intense riding/ hill climbing.  I'm getting a little worried about it being more intense than I'm prepared for but it should be fun....I hope.  

I've been slowly ramping up my running by adding a few minutes each week.  Trying to gradually increase my pace as well. 

I've been enjoying "Crashed Ice" again this last week.  This year an American won (Cameron Naasz) in St. Paul.  If you've never seen it check out some of the Crashed Ice videos on Youtube (I tried to copy a couple links here but wasn't able to).  It's pretty interesting to watch really fast and amazing how these skaters fall and bounce back up.  I certainly have no desire to do it.  Swim, bike and run is quite enough.

Hi Marci!

Welcome to the group.  I love your excitement!  We have a great bunch of people that are happy to answer questions.

Look forward to getting to know you.

Another weekend is here!  What's on everyone's exercise agenda today and tomorrow?

My wife and I, our youngest son and his family are entered in the Sea World Pole-to-Pole 5K/Fun Run tomorrow morning.  The run includes a day in the park so we are spending today with Shamu and friends.  Hopefully the rain holds off tomorrow morning until after the run, although the weather man is saying that isn't likely.  Yes, even in So. Calif. we occasionally get rain.

This is my first "Race" of the season!  However, it's through the park on an unmeasured course with no timing chip and 5,000 of my closest friends.  Yeah, really the race is more of a vehicle to get discounted admission to the park, but don't tell anybody!

So anyone else have anything fun planned?