IMHO...Roadies are LAZY

Yes...classic road tactics. I haven't seen it much on group rides, but if they weren't impedeing traffic, I guess it's good to train how you race.

Wheelsucking is definitley a true roadie art form, and how well you do it in large part determines how successful of a racer you are.

Sorry, I don't have the answer to your question...but I loved this post because it made me laugh.  I don't ride in groups much...and this is why!  I can't stand a$$holes!

Roadies aren't necessarily LAZY.  They just can be clique-ish.  Sounds like you ran across a typical bunch of "we're cool, we read Bicycling magazine" bikers.  Sometimes they also feel like they are invincible in a peloton and don't have to follow the rules of the road.

I just don't ride with people like that...simple solution.

Teeheee...imagine if you had come to the ride with a TRI bike?  OMG...they would have killed you.

Edited to add: YES I have heard you should draft off to the left/right to compensate for which direction the wind is coming from.  I never pull because I'm slow so I don't know which direction I'd fall back on.  But the one time I did hear that whole direction the wind is coming from thing was on a no-drop ride where I happened to be one of the slower riders so they were trying to put me in the best possible draft to try to help me keepup.  But we still only rode two abreast to obey traffic laws and stayed out of the main road.

My alarm for 'testosterone fueled rant' went off in your first paragraph.

None of you guys have attitudes that would make for enjoyable riding partners. 

Calling them lazy for just doing what roadies do is silly.  So is their shunning you because they're the clique and you're the newbie.  It all just reeks of EGO. 

You get what you give IMHO.

Dan,

I have had the same thing happen to me several times in the "fast group" rides at different LBS. I have a friend who is a roadie and he says his sole goal is to suck as much as he can and pull as little as he can...

I agree about it being a ego thing and I did the same thing, there is no way I was letting them drop me...

When it was over you should have looked at all of them and asked "how about we go for a 1 hour run brick"...lol I mean after all you are an IM....

I try to stay away from the LBS bike rides, because I think that attitude is just silly... My tri LBS rides include everyone and we wait on everyone at top of hills if there are dropped just to make sure they know the way.

(psst dan: that's called a paceline, an echelon, to be more specific, and that's absolutely a racing tactic that roadies practice (or, in my riding club, as automatic as checking HR!) on long rides. they may have been a-sholes, but that's not why! They were probably pissed bc you disregarded that when you dropped to the "wrong" side- the first thing a roadie does is know where the wind is coming from so s/he knows how to adjust-)

There's no excuse for not calling out potholes, or being dickheads, though! 

I don't know much about riding at this kind of level but I'd echo Jim's sentiments on the group dynamics.  As a triathlete I feel like any time I spent learning classic road strategy and drafting maneuvers and ettiquette would be better spent on tri specific training.  Not that I wouldn't get anything out of it, but I've got enough to learn already.  Likewise, as roadies they may feel like "hey - I can go out and make myself ride into the wind any time I want.  These rides are the only chance I get to practice paceline/drafting strategies and techniques and I want to get better at those things.  Anyone busting that up is affecting my training time."

Not defending them as it seems like most of your tale, from both sides, was an excersize in ego and I'll bet EVERYONE got a solid ride out of it, but just trying to explain different viewpoints of the situation.

After much thought and after reading the replies...I have come to the conclusion that:

I too was an A$$hole.  I throw myself on the mercy of the BT COJ court. 

I was ignorant of the rules of a true pace line apparently and was the first to commit a "sin".  BUT...I wasn't flagarant until I was told to try and not get dropped.  (just for the record)

I promise to try and play nice from now on.  I'm a nice guy...really!

Yeah, but recognize that as a group, roadies are the most stuck up, egotistical, rub it in your face, exclusive, who's your daddy bunch you'll ever meet.  The wrong equipment, the wrong tactics at any given time, the wrong look, the wrong nutrition, the wrong deodorant are enough for them to exclude you, and for the group to treat you as domestique.  You were fresh meat with fresh legs, why not let you pull?!!!

I've ridden with 3 or 4 different roadie groups, fast and moderate, and the prickliness is out of control.  I've had trouble getting a 'hi' out of many groups, and the full disco kit on most of 'em warns me not to ask twice.  The roadies can keep their ol road to themselves.  My only consolation is that when we ride stony creek...I ride with one or two other triathletes...and if we bother to line up, we can fly by the roadies.  Solo, it's about a dead heat....but it's still some satisfaction.  Bastages.

well, like anything else, when you are a guest in someone else's home, you follow their customs and rules. What is strange and weird and rude to you might just be a different culture. deal with it, or stay in your own country!

(and the roadies I know in Madison are super welcoming and friendly, BUT you do need to know what you are doing before you can just go hang with them, especially if it's a group ride where there are team or training objectives planned.) 

Wow.  I really enjoyed reading your report and was willing to come help you kick thier ******...till I read the responses to your post.  This was very educational to me as I never knew there was so many riding protcals.  I've never ridden with a group and after reading this, I doubt I ever will.  Obvioulsy you were not aware of thier protocals and it would seem to me that they could have told you what was going on.  Upon further thought, I still think we should go kick thier ******.  :-)

BTW, what's with the Alabama crack at the end of your post? 

 ~Mike

My LBS holds paceline workshops & practice rides once or twice a year.  They "strongly encourage" any newbies to ride with the slowest group during the weekly shop rides until: 1.) the riders get comfortable riding in the paceline and 2.) the other riders trust the newbies.

There's a lot of variations and subteties with paceline riding.  I don't particularly enjoy pacelines and would rather do my own workout riding solo.  And I generally don't like to stereotype people, but I my experience is that roadies do tend to be more cliquish than triathletes.

As far as the Alabama thing, all I know is that the Gators are going to kick their a**** this afternoon...

Mark