General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Z1/Z2 Kool-Aid Drinkers... Rss Feed  
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2006-10-20 8:48 AM

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Subject: Z1/Z2 Kool-Aid Drinkers...
I remember reading a post on here about how people were doing almost nothing except zone 1/2 runs and greatly improving their pace/times.

I'm just wondering if Z1/Z2, which is good for building the aerobic base, is something that beginners should focus on or if it's something that experienced runners continue to do as well?

Also, how do you fit your Z1/Z2 runs into your running routine/schedule? I imagine for beginners it's probably 90-100% Z1/Z2 runs, but for the more experienced, I assume it's a much smaller percentage (if any?). And if you do start cutting back on Z1/Z2 work, how do you know when you're ready to do it?

I guess I'm just looking for some direction here. I want to really focus on running over the winter and right now my routine looks like:

M:
T: moderate run (5 miles, Z1/Z2)
W:
Th: moderate run (5 miles, Z1/Z2)
F:
Sa:
Su: long run (10 miles, Z1/Z2)

Typically, Z1/Z2 puts me at about a 10 min/mile pace. It varies based on the terrain, course, etc, but that seems to be the average. I like these Z1/Z2 runs because it's pretty easy/relaxed and doesn't beat me up at all. But, after talking to some people I'm looking at switching it up to something like:

M:
T: moderate run (5 miles, Z1/Z2)
W:
Th: tempo run (12min/20min/12min)
F: moderate run (~3 miles, Z1/Z2)
Sa:
Su: long run (10 miles, Z1/Z2)

The tempo run would be at Z4 for the middle chunk and Z1/Z2 for the start/finish. What does everyone think? Should I add in more variety? More Z1/Z2 or less? I'm a total running n00b and am pretty excited that I'm finally seeing progress (before this summer, the most I ran was like 2 miles, tops).

Sorry for the novel, I think I even put myself to sleep!


2006-10-20 9:07 AM
in reply to: #573521

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Not a Coach
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Media, PA
Subject: RE: Z1/Z2 Kool-Aid Drinkers...

"Easy" running will almost always be the bulk of your running volume.  For beginners, yes, it should be darn near 100%.

But the next things to add are strides and tempo.  I think tempo works really well as part of your long run, but you could do it as you've laid out as well.  In your schedule, you could do strides as part of your Friday run.  Do an easy run warm-up for about 10min.  Then do maybe 6-8 x 30sec strides (about 5k pace, focusing on form & turnover).  Walk for about 45sec between repeats.  Then finish up with 10-20min of easy running.

If you do another easy run on Thurs, then you can put tempo section in your long run (can move it around too--sometimes in the middle, sometimes at the end, etc.) and gradually extend duration of the tempo.

If you really want to focus on running, I'd suggest checking out Daniels' Running Formula.  He uses pace instead of HR, but it's the same idea.

2006-10-20 9:18 AM
in reply to: #573521

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Subject: RE: Z1/Z2 Kool-Aid Drinkers...
I would suggest that for all runners (unless you are peaking for an event - even then it will still be 70+%) the majority of your running should be easy (z1/2). In addition, frequency is going to help you improve your running so I would probably look at increasing the number of times you run in a week (probably at the expense of your long run for now - as I would try to keep that around 30% of your weekly volume in a run focus). I would also look at starting your tempo sessions a little easier - start with 10' of tempo the first week, then 15 the next week and 20 the third.

Like JohnnyKay said, strides are an important part of your overall running and can be used in your easy running - just 20-30" of 5k or slightly faster running with long recoveries. I also count paces during strides so it helps to ensure my turnover is at 90+. As well, I used accelerations of 30" throughout some easy runs where I will run at a variety of paces (marathon, half mary, 10k, 5k).

Another note on building frequency is that I would look at dropping 15' off your long run and adding a fourth run (15') to your week. From there you can take your next three weeks to gradually build volume on some or all of your runs (remember 10% ) and then the following three weeks you can look at doing the same to get to five runs a week. I would avoid adding tempo during this period as increasing frequency will add additional stress to your body which I would avoid compounding with z4 running.

Shane

Edited by gsmacleod 2006-10-20 9:20 AM
2006-10-20 9:22 AM
in reply to: #573521

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Subject: RE: Z1/Z2 Kool-Aid Drinkers...

I'm a Z1/Z2 Kool-Aid drinker...It works!

JohnnyKay gives great advice.  I can't add anything to what he's already said.  Just stick with Z1/Z2 for endurance.  Once you establish a good base, the tempo runs should give you some speed.  Its a slow process, but stick with it and you will see improvements.

2006-10-20 9:38 AM
in reply to: #573521

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Subject: RE: Z1/Z2 Kool-Aid Drinkers...
Amen To the above....I started with my running almost a year ago and the first 4 months was all at 11-12 minute miles with a lowwww HR I then started to see that my Runs started to get faster and my HR stayed the same.  It really works.  After my 1/2 marathon in 3 weeks I will be going back ti all t1/t2 runs with a tempo once a week for the winter.  This will help me build a great base for next year.
2006-10-21 5:23 AM
in reply to: #573521

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Tucson, AZ
Subject: RE: Z1/Z2 Kool-Aid Drinkers...
Hey everyone, thanks for the responses... lots of good stuff to chew on here. Sorry it took me so long to respond, but work was pretty crazy yesterday.

Re: Frequency
Right now I'm running 3x per week. I had planned on upping it to 4x this week, but because I got out of work late yesterday I didn't get a chance to go for a run. With winter fast approaching I'd like to be running 4-5x a week, but will obviously have to build to that.

Re: Tempo Run Length
I took my first stab at a tempo run on Thursday morning (12min/15min/12min) and felt that 15 mins was almost too short. I felt like right as I was getting comfortable and into a nice groove/pace, the time was over and I had to slow down again. That's why I was looking at 20 mins for my next one. Another thing though is that the course I was running was a 1 mile loop with some decent hills, so it took some effort to maintain z4... will try a different (flatter) course next time.

Re: Daniels' Running Formula
I've heard LOTS of good stuff about this guy/book and will definitely look into it.

Re: Strides
Sounds like you just pick up the pace for 20-30 secs throughout the run with slightly longer recovery periods in between? I'll give that a whirl on one of my upcoming runs too, thanks.

I can't remember what else was posted, but thanks again everyone.


2006-10-22 3:09 PM
in reply to: #574268

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Boulder, Colorado
Subject: RE: Z1/Z2 Kool-Aid Drinkers...

Carl

The posts above have it correct. If you read the Triathlete's Training Bible, you can even see in there that 80% of a week should be aerobic, even when peaking for a race. This wouldn't apply in swimming, but in cycling/running, yes.

The biggest limiter AGers have is aerobic conditioning. If you are running 3x per week that really isn't enough - if you really want to improve your running that means running 5-7x per week. I like the idea in the winter of doing 3 long runs: 2 x 90 minutes and 1 x 2:00. Add in two more 45 minute runs and that's a solid week. Make these two runs a drills day and a tempo day.

If you think that's too easy - then add in some upper Zone 2 efforts into your training. If your LT is 160 then try running 2x20 minutes at 145 during your long runs. Stressing the aerobic system without getting sick/injured is the key.  Good luck!

2006-10-22 8:54 PM
in reply to: #574879

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Tucson, AZ
Subject: RE: Z1/Z2 Kool-Aid Drinkers...
Thanks for the tips, Mike. 5-7x per week is pretty ambitious, but I think I can get there. Baby steps...

Re: Upper Z2 efforts/training
Is that something I should stray away from normally? My Z2 tops out at 151 and most of my runs are averaging 146-149 when it's all said and done. Should I be right in the middle of Z2 for my runs or is it OK to be near the top end?

Re: Drills
What kind of running drills are there? I'm aware of cycling and swimming drills, but not so much running.

Thanks!
2006-10-22 9:44 PM
in reply to: #575048

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Subject: RE: Z1/Z2 Kool-Aid Drinkers...

Carl Carlson - 2006-10-22 6:54 PM Thanks for the tips, Mike. 5-7x per week is pretty ambitious, but I think I can get there. Baby steps... Re: Upper Z2 efforts/training Is that something I should stray away from normally? My Z2 tops out at 151 and most of my runs are averaging 146-149 when it's all said and done. Should I be right in the middle of Z2 for my runs or is it OK to be near the top end? Re: Drills What kind of running drills are there? I'm aware of cycling and swimming drills, but not so much running. Thanks!

The more volume you do, the more you'll have to run closer to mid Z2.

Run drills like high knees, butt kicks, quick feet, crossovers, skipping, high skipping, long skipping etc. Pick up a book at the local bookstore, there should be something with run drills. I did a quick net search but I didn't find much in terms of quality.

2006-10-23 6:57 AM
in reply to: #573521

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Subject: RE: Z1/Z2 Kool-Aid Drinkers...

To answer your question about "experienced" runners doing it.  I ran in HS and college and was old school in that you get up, run as hard as you can and then do it again.  repeat every time.  This season, VERY reluctantly, I drank the Z1/Z2 Kool Aid.

D@MN is all I can say.  I dropped not only my Z1/Z2 pace with the same HR, but my long tempo runs became much faster at an even lower HR.

Actually, I'm mixing up some more Kool-aid right now...Want some?!

2006-10-23 9:48 AM
in reply to: #574879

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Subject: RE: Z1/Z2 Kool-Aid Drinkers...
mikericci - 2006-10-22 4:09 PM

The biggest limiter AGers have is aerobic conditioning. If you are running 3x per week that really isn't enough - if you really want to improve your running that means running 5-7x per week. I like the idea in the winter of doing 3 long runs: 2 x 90 minutes and 1 x 2:00. Add in two more 45 minute runs and that's a solid week. Make these two runs a drills day and a tempo day.

I agree in principle, but as an over-50 AG'er, I my legs and joints need a recovery day in between, even after doing slow runs.  Three runs a week are about all my body can deal with, especially if I'm swimming or riding on my "off" days.

Mark 



2006-10-23 9:56 AM
in reply to: #575370

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Subject: RE: Z1/Z2 Kool-Aid Drinkers...
RedCorvette - 2006-10-23 7:48 AM
mikericci - 2006-10-22 4:09 PM

The biggest limiter AGers have is aerobic conditioning. If you are running 3x per week that really isn't enough - if you really want to improve your running that means running 5-7x per week. I like the idea in the winter of doing 3 long runs: 2 x 90 minutes and 1 x 2:00. Add in two more 45 minute runs and that's a solid week. Make these two runs a drills day and a tempo day.

I agree in principle, but as an over-50 AG'er, I my legs and joints need a recovery day in between, even after doing slow runs.  Three runs a week are about all my body can deal with, especially if I'm swimming or riding on my "off" days.

Mark 

Mark - I should have pointed out that my over 50 athletes have two complete days off from training - and I usually add in a stair master, elliptical, or water running workout during the week, in place of a run. I have coached a few over 50 guys/gals to strong IM finishes, and I have learned that 2 complete days off is KEY. Sorry I missed that.

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