The value of upper body strength training (Page 2)

Dismissing something out of hand doesn't make for a strong argument.  You'll find many elite triathletes who swear by weight training. 

Every training plan I've seen in books and online has weight training incorporated into the training plans.  All of the coaches, local here in Dallas and online, recommend weight training to their athletes.  The Triathlete's Training Bible recommends weight training.  Many elite and pro triathletes incorporate weight training into their training.  I think I'll defer to this body of evidence.

Personally, I follow the weight training in my training plans and I think it helps.  Of course, I don't have any double blind studies on my training plan to validate this effect .

TJ

That's a flawed argument.  13 year old girls that are smokin' fast in the pool earn that speed through great form and a bazillion laps.  Who's to say, though, that if they lifted weights, that they wouldn't be even faster? And maybe they DO lift weights.

Me, personally, started lifting weights as a supplement to my swim yards.  And it's helped, period.  The strength gains compliment the extra time in the pool.  For me. 

Actually, I think the opposite has been shown (i.e., that weights do nothing for improving cycling). The amount of "strength" needed for cycling is actually quite small.  It is rarely ever the limiting factor ofr a cyclist.

http://home.earthlink.net/~acoggan/misc/id4.html

Because I limit myself to what will do the most to make me better at climbing on my bike (i.e., climbing on my bike)

Of course they do. Probably a good thing to remember before people try to decide if the weightroom will help make them a better swimmer.

Because lifting weights is not the optimal way to improve swimming strength. Swimming is.

http://www-rohan.sdsu.edu/dept/coachsci/csa/vol12/bulgakov.htm

I do strength training 2 x week all weeks but recovery weeks where I only do one shorter session Oct-May. I think it is important and helps me keep injury free plus being a over 40 year old women I think it is beneficial. Upper body strength, I never had much as a kid or as an adult I figured skated & later played soccer never any arm type activity as an adult either. In just one season of doing strength training, I see gains in upper body strength that does help me tri training/racing plus I like how it makes me feel/look. I do mostly full body stuff with free weights that helps me get stronger but also teaches my body to move together.

He asked a question, lot of varying opinions, but he needs to do what is right for him.

He didn't say bulk helped.  He was pointing out the flaw in the statement that metabolic rate isn't affected by muscle mass.

Just curious from the proponents of weight-room strength training (as opposed to sport-specific weight training), how exactly is weight training making you a better triathlete? Is it adding speed? Because frankly I'm not seeing a whole lot of that from the ones that posted race results and training...

BTW, I've spent 56 hours on the weight machines this year. But I don't do it because it makes me a better triathlete. At least, not directly, IMHO.

You're still not addressing the point that was made.  More muscle means higher resting metabolic rate.  That was the original statement, and that is true and simply not disputable.  What is burned while lifting weights is irrelevant.

Please show me one of these studies you keep quoting as well.

How do you know it doesn't make you a better triathlete?

I've never particularly enjoyed time in the weightroom.  From my rowing days I never noticed any correlation from weights to success on the water. But that is strictly anecdotal.

When I started out in tris a couple years ago, I read all the plans that include some weight training and many of the suggestions noting its benefits.   At first I skipped it simply due to time constraints.  Then I actually started trying to incorporate it, but still found it tough to schedule. 

So I did some research on it to see if it was something I should work harder at finding the time for.  Since my goals were simply to use it top perform my triathlon performance (not, e.g., how I look on the beach), I found there was no evidence that time with the weights would help me improve.  And the evidence seems to lead pretty strongly that there is little carry-over to making one a better triathlete.

The best potential reason I can come up with is that it might reduce injury risk.  But even this is unproven and there are reasons to question how much it would actually help here since most tri injuries are overuse related.  There is no evidence that strength training helps in that department.

So I was biased against doing it from the start.  But I did spend some time doing my homework on it to see if it was something I should consider including anyway.  The weight of existing evidence seems to suggest not.  I reamin open to changing my view if there is any evidence that I should, but so far... 

Maybe one day when I'm retired I'll find the gym a pleasnt place to pass some of my free time.  Until then, I swim, bike & run quite happily.   

I did say not directly and IMHO . Take a look at my routine, I doubt you find anything in there that would make me faster. Certainly not enough to sacrifice SBR time for. I can directly correlate quantity and quality of time spent on the bike and the run with recent increases in speed. 

Can those that do weight training, and have done it all your life,  make that correlation? Are you fast, or why not?

I'm sure he doesn't.  But the weight of evidence in existence seems to indicate that he is probably correct. 

So you don't know that it doesn't make you a better triathlete.

Direct or indirectly, what's the difference?

"Seems to....probably...."

Um...that sure doesn't sound like an ironclad thing.  While you guys can trot out the argument that it's not backed up by any evidence, I'll point out that there's nothing disproving it as being helpful either.

What evidence do you have that it has made you better? Are you faster? You've done this for some time now...

Maybe if you could show how weight training added 5mph to your bike splits over three years, it might prove that it is helpful. I can make that clainm about on-the-bike training.

I could have almost predicted the instant you'd pull out the personal anecdote line.

It's irrelevant, and you know it is.

Look at the 2 links I provided.  There's more out there.  Studies like those seem to indicate that specificity is of far greater importance.  So while weights could help some.  Actually swiming, biking & running seem to help even more.

For those that like weights, I don't suggest they stop.  It is possible there are some tri-related benefits.  But for those who don't or whose primary goal is to improve triathlon performance, I suggest they skip them and spend the time doing those things proven to help performace.