General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Opinion on IM training plans? Rss Feed  
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2006-12-18 12:43 PM

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Subject: Opinion on IM training plans?
Hey All -
I'm new to BT, but not to tri. I stumbled across this site a couple of months ago, and have been using the winter maintenance swim focus plan - love it! And although there are some site navigation issues, I'm learning how to use the logs, etc., and it's a fantastic tool!!!!

Question is this - I am going to start training for another IM (Vineman, Aug 4) next month probably, and I really don't want to shell out $175+/month for a coach. I have done one IM, and numerous other distances, but I am thinking I may want to go the self-coached route this time around. Does anyone have any opinions on using the BT Full Ironman Training Plan? Is it modifiable enough (haven't figured out how to do that yet) to be useful, and is the 20-week program even long enough?? I trained for 10 months for IMFL 2 years back, so half that time seems short to me. Should I look at another program to bridge the gap between now and March (when the 20 weeks would start?)

Lots o' questions - looking forward to hearing from you all -

Thanks!
Denny


2006-12-18 2:25 PM
in reply to: #627003

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Subject: RE: Opinion on IM training plans?
If you have completed one IM already, and you're not a pro, then you would be a sucker to pay for a coach.

I tried to use the BT IM program for my first IM (and second tri ever), but I thought that the long workouts were too ambitious in the beginning and not ambitious enough at the end. So, I got rid of them and did long workouts according to the 10% rule in all three sports. It worked fine, so the program is sufficiently modifiable, and 20 weeks is plenty of time.

The program will work well if you have enough of a base to complete the long workouts in the beginning with no problem. So, either you should do some sort of aerobic base program before the IM program or modify the program so that you can do it without much of a base (like I did).

Edited by skavoovie 2006-12-18 2:25 PM
2006-12-18 2:35 PM
in reply to: #627003

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Subject: RE: Opinion on IM training plans?
I trained for IM FL and used the 12 week "1/2 IM to IM bridge plan" form this site.  I had a good base going into the training and didn't have any major issues with the plan.  I did however up my longest run time from 2:45 to 3 hrs. becuase I wanted to get in a longer run.  I think most IM plans don't have you running for more than 3 hours.   I really improved with the swimming and was alot stronger and faster in the water.  The only change I would have made to the plan was bike more.  Biking is my weakest and I wish I would had focused a little more on it.  But overall I was happy with the plan and had a better IM finish time that I was expecting.  Good luck!
2006-12-18 3:17 PM
in reply to: #627126

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Subject: RE: Opinion on IM training plans?

skavoovie - 2006-12-18 3:25 PM If you have completed one IM already, and you're not a pro, then you would be a sucker to pay for a coach. I tried to use the BT IM program for my first IM (and second tri ever), but I thought that the long workouts were too ambitious in the beginning and not ambitious enough at the end. So, I got rid of them and did long workouts according to the 10% rule in all three sports. It worked fine, so the program is sufficiently modifiable, and 20 weeks is plenty of time. The program will work well if you have enough of a base to complete the long workouts in the beginning with no problem. So, either you should do some sort of aerobic base program before the IM program or modify the program so that you can do it without much of a base (like I did).

 

I, and every other coach on here take exception with that statement. I am not sure if you had a bad experience with a coach or what, but don't disparage and entire group of people on you personal experiences.

 

Now to address the OP's question, the BT plans are great. You should have no problem modifying them to fit your needs. Like Runnergirl said, you might need to tweak the number of workouts to fit your specific limiters (i.e. more bike time if that is a weakness). Vineman is a long way off, try picking an intermediate goal between now and then to work on.

2006-12-18 3:59 PM
in reply to: #627003

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Subject: RE: Opinion on IM training plans?

dennyf - 2006-12-18 12:43 PM Does anyone have any opinions on using the BT Full Ironman Training Plan? Is it modifiable enough (haven't figured out how to do that yet) to be useful, and is the 20-week program even long enough?? I trained for 10 months for IMFL 2 years back, so half that time seems short to me. Should I look at another program to bridge the gap between now and March (when the 20 weeks would start?) Lots o' questions - looking forward to hearing from you all - Thanks! Denny

I used the HIM to IM Bridge Plan for IMFL (same as Runnergirl).  I did similar modifications to the plan as Runnergirl - added longer runs (3 hours), more bricks, some Big Day training.  I liked the plan and will use it again this year for Redman IM. 

20 weeks is plenty of time to prepare for an IM.  The key is to start Day 1 of the plan rested, physically and mentally ready, and with a good aerobic base.  This is how I build my plans.  I start with the race day and back in the 12 weeks from the HIM to IM plan.  That gives me Day 1 of the IM specific trianing. From now until Day 1 is preperation for the IM specific training.  I'll use the winter maintenance plan to build a base and work on limiters (run lots), then a period of 'B' races and the appropriate training.  After that I take a couple weeks off. Then Day 1 of the IM specific training starts. 

Using your race date, Day 1 of a 20 week plan will be ~March 1.  During Jan and Feb I would do one of the Winter Maintenance plans.  Modify the 20 week plan according to your limiters.  Also, add a race or two that coincides with one of the recovery weeks in the plan. 

I'm going through this process now in preperation for next season.

TJ

2006-12-19 8:24 AM
in reply to: #627186

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Subject: RE: Opinion on IM training plans?
I, and every other coach on here take exception with that statement. I am not sure if you had a bad experience with a coach or what, but don't disparage and entire group of people on you personal experiences.


i think it depends on what the athlete's goals are. coaches can be very useful in a lot of cases (working toward and attaining specific goals, injury prevention, motivation, etc.). skavoovie was a little blunt, but i think the point trying to be made is that if Denny already finished an ironman without any significant injuries and simply wants to finish another one without any specific goals for improvement, getting a coach is really not needed. the plans on bt or other resources (beIRONfit, etc.) are fine.



2006-12-19 10:43 AM
in reply to: #627003

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Subject: RE: Opinion on IM training plans?
Thanks for all the opinions gang! I'm still on the fence as to what to do, but it sounds like self-coaching is not an entirely ridiculous option. I have completed one IM, and a ton of other distances, and in fact last year didn't really even have a plan, but PR'd every race I did. I just trained on "feel". Granted, I know IM training doesn't quite work that way. So - couple more questions then:
-- With using the BT plans, did you guys find yourself spending more time altering and modifying the workouts every week than should be reasonably expected? I don't want to spend hour after hour every Sunday night rearranging, then wondering if I am doing more harm than good by making it accomodate my schedule more. Make sense?
-- How did you deal with the accountability factor...or lack or...when going the self-coached route? That, to me, is one of the big pluses with using a coach.
-- I know the BT programs can be modified as you see fit, but I am considering the Gold (or whatever the highest level is) programs to be able to have the one on one coaching advice. Is that a decent idea, and what advice are we talking about - do they modify plans based on personal limiters, etc., or is it more of a question/answer type thing?

I know it's a ton of questions, but I need to get something rolling quick. I like the BT site for logging, graphing, etc. - but I may be looking for something a bit more interactive as far as making the plan work for me. For instance, I would like Mondays to be my "off", or "recovery" day without having to manually do that every single time. Doesn't look like I have that ability through this site. Am I just being too friggin picky?

thanks -
Denny
2006-12-19 10:49 AM
in reply to: #627003

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Subject: RE: Opinion on IM training plans?
Hey Denny! I'm currently training for my first HIM then a full IM next year. I'm using a program out of Triathlete Magazine training plans. It's a huge book with plans for all sorts of distances and levels. Personal coaching of course is always nice but it seems to be a little more $$ than most of us can afford- I think thats what brings most of us to BT so all our ??? can be answered by others that have already experienced our setbacks.  Good luck with whatever type of training program you decide upon- stay healthy and enjoy!
2006-12-19 11:48 AM
in reply to: #627897

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Subject: RE: Opinion on IM training plans?

denny,

For the Gold forum, the coaches will recommend schedule changes if you need it but they won't go in and modify the plan.

On switching workouts around yourself, there are some general answers here:
http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/cms/article-detail.asp?articleid=629

Remember when you import the plan, you can stagger it forward or back by a few days if that makes the plan a lot easier to modify (less days to switch if your schedule differs), you will have to keep in mind that you will have to adjust the last week of the plan due to plan going over or under your race date a few days.  To see what may best fit your schedule, BEFORE you import, look at the 'calendar' view of the plan as it's laid out, then you can see better how many days to stagger it.

What I tell people that need to make weekly modifications, only do it by one week at a time just before the new week starts, this keeps things manageable and shouldn't take more than 10 minutes once you get the hang of it.  See Instructions.

We don't have the ability to set up a detailed plan exactly as your scedule permits with the click of a button, that would require, really, personal coaching...I haven't come up with a computer algorithm for that yet!  These plans are pre-built and they make assumptions on the athlete like any published plan...but should be relatively easy to customize with a few rules of thumb in the first link.

Hope this answers some of your technical questions.  Good luck in whatever you decide to do.

2006-12-19 3:38 PM
in reply to: #627897

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Subject: RE: Opinion on IM training plans?

dennyf - 2006-12-19 11:43 AM Thanks for all the opinions gang! I'm still on the fence as to what to do, but it sounds like self-coaching is not an entirely ridiculous option. I have completed one IM, and a ton of other distances, and in fact last year didn't really even have a plan, but PR'd every race I did. I just trained on "feel". Granted, I know IM training doesn't quite work that way. So - couple more questions then: -- With using the BT plans, did you guys find yourself spending more time altering and modifying the workouts every week than should be reasonably expected? I don't want to spend hour after hour every Sunday night rearranging, then wondering if I am doing more harm than good by making it accomodate my schedule more. Make sense? -- How did you deal with the accountability factor...or lack or...when going the self-coached route? That, to me, is one of the big pluses with using a coach. -- I know the BT programs can be modified as you see fit, but I am considering the Gold (or whatever the highest level is) programs to be able to have the one on one coaching advice. Is that a decent idea, and what advice are we talking about - do they modify plans based on personal limiters, etc., or is it more of a question/answer type thing? I know it's a ton of questions, but I need to get something rolling quick. I like the BT site for logging, graphing, etc. - but I may be looking for something a bit more interactive as far as making the plan work for me. For instance, I would like Mondays to be my "off", or "recovery" day without having to manually do that every single time. Doesn't look like I have that ability through this site. Am I just being too friggin picky? thanks - Denny

I didn't have a problem being motivated.  Knowing that I had my IM within a few months was enough motivation for me to stick with the training and not slack with it.  Every now and then I would mentally struggle with the whole aspect of "all I do is train I don't have time for anything else" type of thing.  But that's when my BT friends came into play who would inspire me daily  

2006-12-19 4:16 PM
in reply to: #627003

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Subject: RE: Opinion on IM training plans?
Since you're already a silver member, its prorated if you increase your level...something to think about.


2006-12-20 6:06 AM
in reply to: #627003

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Subject: RE: Opinion on IM training plans?
another option is a book called "beIRONfit" by Don Fink. I highly recommend it. It's a fast read and a good balance of useful information without being too technical. It has a lot of general knowledge (most of which you probably already have) and more importantly, it has three 30 week ironman training programs based on what your goals are and how much time you have to train. I thought that suited me well since I also was planning on using the BT 20 week program, but it just seemed too short. I use the BT site as my workout journal and for general discussion.

disclaimer, I have just started training for my first ironman, but have done every other distance multiple times. I am already seeing great gains in my fitness and have 100% confidence I will be more than race ready come June. (doing Couer D'Alene)
2006-12-20 9:07 AM
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Subject: RE: Opinion on IM training plans?

I'm another BT'er who used the BT Ironman training plan to successfully train and complete my first IM.  But, since you've already done one IM, maybe my opinion is of no use.  Just saying....I thought the 20 week plan was spot on.

 

2006-12-20 9:34 AM
in reply to: #627003

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Subject: RE: Opinion on IM training plans?
Funny that IRONfit is mentioned twice here - I just bought that last week, but thought it was mainly time/training management tools. I was pleasantly surprised to see that there were actual plans in there as well. i dunno - to me, 20 weeks sounds short. 30 weeks may be a bit too long, but I'm pretty sure I can find something in between. I believe I'll upgrade to Gold, and use all the tools, journal, etc. on BT - to me this far exceeds the Training Peaks site, and at a much better price!

Ron - thanks for all the info and instructions links. I don't know why, but when I looked for that on my own, I couldn't seem to find the right info, so I'm glad you pointed me that way. i'll probably set up my season here in BT and use this as my "accountability" factor. I'd rather spend the $175 a month that a coach would cost on new tri-geek stuff!
2006-12-20 9:42 AM
in reply to: #628894

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Subject: RE: Opinion on IM training plans?

denny,

All of the info to use the BT plans (importing, customizing, printing and viewing, plan questions, HR zones, strength and core) you will be able to find at the top of the 'Programs' page where it lists the plans.  They will be the buttons at the top.  So if you are looking for information about using a certain plan, go back to the training plan page.

http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/training/trainingplans-list.asp?h=1

 

2006-12-20 7:51 PM
in reply to: #627186

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Subject: RE: Opinion on IM training plans?
Rocket Man - 2006-12-18 1:17 PM

skavoovie - 2006-12-18 3:25 PM If you have completed one IM already, and you're not a pro, then you would be a sucker to pay for a coach. I tried to use the BT IM program for my first IM (and second tri ever), but I thought that the long workouts were too ambitious in the beginning and not ambitious enough at the end. So, I got rid of them and did long workouts according to the 10% rule in all three sports. It worked fine, so the program is sufficiently modifiable, and 20 weeks is plenty of time. The program will work well if you have enough of a base to complete the long workouts in the beginning with no problem. So, either you should do some sort of aerobic base program before the IM program or modify the program so that you can do it without much of a base (like I did).

 

I, and every other coach on here take exception with that statement. I am not sure if you had a bad experience with a coach or what, but don't disparage and entire group of people on you personal experiences.

 

Now to address the OP's question, the BT plans are great. You should have no problem modifying them to fit your needs. Like Runnergirl said, you might need to tweak the number of workouts to fit your specific limiters (i.e. more bike time if that is a weakness). Vineman is a long way off, try picking an intermediate goal between now and then to work on.

haa! haa! You put that much more elegantly than I would have. Gang - I've said this 100 times and I'll say it 100 more: The top four things, in order, that will make you a faster triathlete:
1. aerobars
2. A coach
3. a power meter
4. race wheels

If you have #4 and you don't have 2 or 3, then you are limiting yourself. BIG TIME.
Zipps wheels will make you 2-4 minutes faster over 112 miles. Cost = $2100. If you want another minute or two, add in an aero helmet - cost is $300. Coaching will make you much faster than that! Cost over 10 months ($200 x 10 = $2,000).

What you learn from a good coach can be used over and over to get you faster and faster - I still use ideas from coaches I had 15 years ago and they still work! Please, don't downplay how much a coach will help you. If you have had a good coach then you would know what both Rocket Man and I are saying.

Peace



2006-12-26 7:43 PM
in reply to: #627003

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Subject: RE: Opinion on IM training plans?
I used the BT IM plan for IM Florida (my first) and felt I was pretty successful. Here's my opinions on the plan and the service:

1. Altering the plan by shifting it forward or back a day or two because of when you want your rest days is easy. I'm doing it now on the winter maintenance plan... it's very simple.

2. It's also very easy to shorten or lengthen workouts as you see fit. I did this on occassion. In fact, while I don't have anything to compare it to, I think its a very swim heavy plan. I skipped A LOT of swims (to get extra rest) and still finished the IM FL swim in 1:08.

3. The plan itself isn't a long swim, bike, and run each week type plan. For instance, some weeks don't have a long run because they are "Big Bike" weeks. This makes it very hard to change workouts and still be confident that you aren't doing more harm than good. I NEVER changed out a workout from one discipline to another. I couldn't imagine trying to figure out how it would impact the rest of my training. If you can do that, you could probably build your own plan, I'd bet.

4. If you choose this plan, pay for the gold membership. The coaches respond very quickly, when you do ask a question. They were very useful for answering questions regarding whether or not I should do certain "training races" at various stages of the plan, and if so, whether or not I should taper, and if so, how I should taper. Also helped a lot with an injury I had. It was a big confidence booster to have them there to answer these questions. I didn't really interact more than that because I was following the plan as prescribed, but still I highly recommend paying for the coaching. I have to add though that they don't hold your hand and walk you through what you should do like a coach would. In short, you have to know enough to ask. If not, you won't benefit from the coahing. That being said, I still recommend the coaching.

5. I followed the 20-week HIM plan, ran my first HIM, then took a month off, totally. I found it hard to start back up with the IM plan, but things fell in line pretty quickly. I'd recommend some type of base plan leading up to the IM plan, but like someone said earlier, if you can do the beginning mileage easily, you should have no problem training for an IM in 20 weeks.

Hope this little book is of help to you!

Good luck!
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