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3 Days a Week to Train and Needing Advice
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 2006-12-28 9:46 PM |
New user 5 |  Subject: 3 Days a Week to Train and Needing AdviceHello everyone and thanks in advance for taking time out to read this and hopefully offer some input. Here's the scoop. Much like a few other posts I've read on here I spent 2006 reversing years of bad habits and getting into better shape. At 38 I'm in better shape than I've been in in over 15 years. I got bit by the triathlon/adventure race bug in the summer of 06 and made a buddy of mine do an adventure race with me. He liked it so much he talked me into doing a sprint triathlon with him a few weeks laters. We had a blast at both and all things considered I feel like I did well finishing in the middle of the pack out of small group of 50 or so. My goal for 07 is to do some sprint events early in the year to improve my performance and then transition into Olympic distance races in the later part of the year. Here's my question. Because of work, family and other time constraints I can only dedicate 3 days a week to triathlon training. I weight train an additional 3 days a week for a total of 6 workout days in a week. I prefer NOT to do 2 a day workouts as I don't want to overtrain. Maximum time allotted on each of the triathlon workout days would be 2 to 2.5 hours per workout but normally in the 1-1.5 hour range. My swimming and running need the most improvement. Do I just split the days up equally and swim one day, run the next and bike for the 3rd day? Any input at all would be appreciated. Also, while I believe I have my diet pretty much under control I would appreciate any tips on avoiding cramping legs. During the bike leg of my last event, a calf muscle nearly forced me to stop. I feel like I was properly stretched and hydrated but there it was...the cramp from hell. I've heard bananas can help so maybe that's the answer. Oh and one final question...and I'm afraid to both ask this question and to know the answer. Say I'm in the middle of an event and nature calls...I'm sure there is proper etiquette here and want to do the right thing. Anyway....please help me get my workout nailed down first and then comments on my last two questions would be appreciated. Thanks! |
| 2006-12-28 9:59 PM in reply to: #636059 |
Champion 10471    Dallas, TX | Subject: RE: 3 Days a Week to Train and Needing Advice I can only dedicate 3 days a week to triathlon training. I weight train an additional 3 days a week for a total of 6 workout days in a week. Well, can I ask... why do you need to do weights 3 days a week, and why can't you encorporate some of your tri training on weight days? For example, run 2 miles on the treadmill, go do your weights. You get both in. I think a lot of people who train for tri's keep up with weights, but maybe don't do them 3 days a week. Others can give you better advice on how to balance it. Also, what are your goals? Just to finish the tri and you don't mind some suffering to get it done? Or do you expect to be pretty fast? |
| 2006-12-28 10:16 PM in reply to: #636059 |
| New user 5 | Subject: RE: 3 Days a Week to Train and Needing Advice Wow thanks for the fast reply. I literally walked away and came back and there was a response. As far as the weight training goes it is just a personal preference of mine. I understand that endurance training and weight lifting often don't go hand in hand but it works for me. If I were planning on doing 1/2 Ironman or Ironman one day I'm sure that I'll retool my workout regime accordingly. I suppose I could stack my weight and tri training if I heard a strong enough case for it. My fear is simply over training on those days leading to an injury. Goals for the sprint races would be to improve to the top 3rd of the field. Top 10 would be heaven but who am I kidding. Olympic distance goals would be to finish in the top half and then work on improving on that in 08. I don't expect to be first but I certainly am not there to "just finish" anymore. At this point I'm open to anything that allows me to keep a decent, work/life/workout schedule balance. If you have a specific regime that you believe would work for me please let me know as I'm all ears. Thanks again for the fast reply. |
| 2006-12-28 10:19 PM in reply to: #636059 |
Coach 9167 Stairway to Seven | Subject: RE: 3 Days a Week to Train and Needing Advice If wieght training is a real passion for you, then by all means continue. But if you really want to be the best prepared for tris that you can be, Consider dropping a large part of the time you have dedicated to weights and contribute that time towards tri sports. It sounds like you have 6 days a week to train which is as much as anyone else. If you do each tri sport once a week, it is hard to improve in any of them. Even if you do have say 2 hours to train in one day for one sport, you are probably better served by training 30 minutes twice a week and 1 hour another day for the same total training time per sport...you are likely to see more improvement that way. It doesn't sound like time is a limiter for you at all, rather your focus. Not that you have to give up everything to be a triathlete (far from it), but 3 days a week of weights at the expense of additional s/b/r workouts is not really great for your triathlon success. check out the plans on this website for free or D3 coaching plans that do incorporate strength training. If you haven't picked up one of many, many tri training books out there, consider the following: Training plans for multisport athletes, Gale Bernhardt The Triathlete's Training Bible, Joe Friel I have read and can reccomend both of them, but there are many more that I simply havn't had time to get to yet. Others will have additional advice, I'm sure! Best of luck and welcome to the obsessoin! |
| 2006-12-28 10:25 PM in reply to: #636076 |
Coach 9167 Stairway to Seven | Subject: RE: 3 Days a Week to Train and Needing Advice wallstreetdude68 - 2006-12-28 9:16 PM I suppose I could stack my weight and tri training if I heard a strong enough case for it. My fear is simply over training on those days leading to an injury. As you learn more about the specificity component of trianing, no one will need to make a case for it, it will just make sense. What type of weight routine are you doing? Are you willing to possibly radically change your weight routine to beneefit your tri performance? I am a proponent of strength training for most triathletes, but as a complement to tri training, and in a periodized manner. There are many on this site that do no weight training at all and are amaziign triathletes. The whole point of "weight" training is to build specific strength for your tri sports. But for each of the tri sports, you can build strength by performing specific types of workouts on the bike, in the pool and while running. There is a large volume of scientific literature regarding "weight training" and endurance sports, which is not necessarily the same as "strength training" and endurance sports. I don't want to turn this into a thread of "should triathletes do strength/weight training", because that's been covered and beaten ad nauseum in the recent weeks. However, I just want to bring it to the forefront of your thinking that your goals of placing top 3 AG in sprints may be at odds with spending 3 days a week of 1+ hour doing weights in the gym. |
| 2006-12-28 10:30 PM in reply to: #636059 |
Expert 936 Springfield, MO | Subject: RE: 3 Days a Week to Train and Needing Advice Welcome! RE: calf cramps - In my case, my seat was too high and a pro bike fit fixed it. Hydration could also be a factor Have fun |
| 2006-12-28 10:31 PM in reply to: #636079 |
Champion 10471 Dallas, TX | Subject: RE: 3 Days a Week to Train and Needing Advice Goals for the sprint races would be to improve to the top 3rd of the field. Top 10 would be heaven but who am I kidding. Olympic distance goals would be to finish in the top half and then work on improving on that in 08. I don't expect to be first but I certainly am not there to "just finish" anymore. Well, I strongly encourage you to look at the times for some of the tri's you want to compete in, in 07, for 06. Who was placing in the top 3, and with what times. Then, you have to see if you can make those times, with only 3 days of training a week. I think AB really said it best... AdventureBear - 2006-12-28 10:19 PM If wieght training is a real passion for you, then by all means continue. But if you really want to be the best prepared for tris that you can be, Consider dropping a large part of the time you have dedicated to weights and contribute that time towards tri sports. It sounds like you have 6 days a week to train which is as much as anyone else. If you do each tri sport once a week, it is hard to improve in any of them. It doesn't sound like time is a limiter for you at all, rather your focus. Not that you have to give up everything to be a triathlete (far from it), but 3 days a week of weights at the expense of additional s/b/r workouts is not really great for your triathlon success. The truth is, and maybe a more experienced and successful triathlete can confirm or deny this statement... but the people who are winning tri's are training more than 3 days a week. Now, people who are just finishing... they might be training only 3 days a week. For me, I am back of the packer, and I train 5-6 days a week, and put in around 10-15 hours a week. Now, I'm not a naturally gifted cyclist or runner. Maybe you are. You might be able to ride once a week for around 30 miles and go keep an average of 20+mph for 12-25 miles in a tri. You might be able to run once a week, and go out to a tri and pump out an 8 minute mile for 3-6 miles. Keep in mind though, you have to train for bricks- bike to run- at least once a week when you are in full training mode for an event. Putting the two together is what gets most people. Like AB said... go look at some basic training plans... and ask yourself if you can fit those training plans into your 3 days. Who knows, it might work. You might be very gifted and able to pull it off. |
| 2006-12-28 10:32 PM in reply to: #636059 |
Champion 5345 Carlsbad, California | Subject: RE: 3 Days a Week to Train and Needing Advice I am guessing that if you are able to put together a 3 day per week training plan along side 3 days of weight training, the hard part is going to be maintaining proper periodization. Proper Periodization in your training is key to avoiding injuries as well as keeping your training momentum going. Alternating hard and easy days is the basic idea. Most good plans do offer Cross Training opportunities and many of the peeps here do a fair amount of lifting as part of the training plan. I am guessing that the key is to find some sort of a balance that will keep your training fresh without having to totally give it up. As AB suggested, check out some of the Tri plans available out there. Also look for articles that talk about Lifting as a Cross Training Activity. (I think there are a few over on RunningTimes if you cannot find them any where else) Good Luck  |
| 2006-12-28 11:01 PM in reply to: #636059 |
Champion 4902 Ottawa, Ontario | Subject: RE: 3 Days a Week to Train and Needing Advice I suppose that if you were adept at all 3 sports, you could get away with training once per week for 2 to 2.5 hours in each. Although you would prefer NOT to do 2 workouts in one day, you have to remember that you are training for a triathlon and that you would benefit greatly from doing bricks. You really should consider doing at least one bike/run brick day. Edited by Machiavelo 2006-12-28 11:02 PM |
| 2006-12-29 9:35 AM in reply to: #636059 |
| New user 5 | Subject: RE: 3 Days a Week to Train and Needing Advice And wow again. Thanks for all of the input. Here is what I have so far: Basically the concensus is that if I want to improve in the triathlon then I need to cut back on weight training some and focus on the events. Brick training seems to be key and I actually do brick train as I get closer to an event. I think somewhere in the shuffle someone confused me wanting to be in the top 1/3 of all finishers with being in the top 3. Big difference. I think I can improve greatly but lets face it...the top 1/3 would be great. Does anyone have any more input on periodization of workouts? Also does anyone find that there is a better time of day to train or is it just where ever you can fit it in? Thanks again for all of the help. Once I can get may arms around all of this I should be able to put a nice little plan into action! |
| 2006-12-29 11:02 AM in reply to: #636059 |
Master 3019 West Jordan, UT | Subject: RE: 3 Days a Week to Train and Needing Advice I am not sure I would worry much about overtraining. You can get 2 workouts in one day without working out any more time. For example on Thursdays I swim and run for about 30 minutes each. No more total time than If I just swam for an hour or ran for an hour. I feel i get more out of swimming twice a week for 30 minutes than if I swam once for an hour. Most people would probably agree. Also, since running and bking only use your legs and swimming is primarily upper body, I plan my lifting around that. I can workout my legs hard if I am only swimming tommorow and my upper body if I am not swimming. Maybe this helps, maybe it doesn't - good luck! |
| 2006-12-29 11:29 AM in reply to: #636350 |
Champion 5345 Carlsbad, California | Subject: RE: 3 Days a Week to Train and Needing Advice Proper Periodization in training can and should be done at all levels of Training and Racing. This includes following the hard/easy principle, including periodic cutback weeks, breaking a training cycle up into different phases with different goals, and best of all, building a race schedule that includes a varied diet of different distances and race types. (Sprints, Olys, 5k, 10k etc.) Best of all, regularly scheduling some downtime where you have no goal whatever and do the minimum to maintain fitness. Here is an article from a friend of mine that is inspired by the concept of Periodization pioneered by Arthur Lydiard: http://www.hillrunner.com/articles/article.php/periodization_for_ru... It focuses on running, but is totally applicable to Triathlon Training. Hope this helps |
| 2006-12-29 12:11 PM in reply to: #636059 |
Coach 9167 Stairway to Seven | Subject: RE: 3 Days a Week to Train and Needing Advice Some might argue that Tudor Bompa pioneered periodization.  to the OP, what are your current levels of fitness in each of the 3 sports? Not where you finished the season,but what can you do now? what would you consider a typical workout in each of the 3 sports? I challenging workout? Distances? Paces? |
| 2006-12-29 12:36 PM in reply to: #636059 |
| New user 5 | Subject: RE: 3 Days a Week to Train and Needing Advice Great Questions and Responses. To AdventureBear or anyone else who want to offer input. My weight days are simple alternating upper body with lower body with "rest days" between. The focus is always intensity of the workout and increasing strength. I guess I'll start with running first. Before I took a holiday break I had worked up to about an hour run at a moderate pace. Not sure of the distance as I was just trying to increase volume. When I have timed myself I can maintain about a 8 1/2 to 9 minute mile over a distance of about 3 miles. Fastest time on a short run so far has been 2 miles in 15.34. Swimming is probably my worst discipline. I honestly haven't timed myself and have just been trying to increase volume and endurance. I was up to about 1 hour of swimming but that included some sprints...some form work etc. I doubt that I could swim for more than 40-45 mins or so straight without stopping and even that would include some breast and side strokes just to mix it up and keep my shoulders from falling off. I believe biking is my strongest event...and I mostly mountain bike. I did an off road race with a friend of mine in October and logged 40 miles in 10 mile loops. My first lap was my fastest lap and I did that in 48.27. Not that great but I felt like it was a decent time. Typically when I ride the trails I do a 9-12 mile loop in around an hour. When the weather is decent I ride a couple of times a week I guess. So that's kind of where I'm at. Been on break for a few weeks and would like to get back into training mode over the weekend. I hope this helps. Thanks. |
| 2006-12-29 1:04 PM in reply to: #636059 |
| Subject: RE: 3 Days a Week to Train and Needing Advice Welcome to the site. WSD, I am just going to comment on the swimming aspect and share what worked for me and make a suggestion what may also work for you. Swimming is the most technical aspect of tri's, by that I mean having correct form will develop faster swimming with a lot less physical effort. I would strongly encourage you to get some info on Total Immersion Swimming, I used the book but from what I have heard here the DVD's might be even more beneficial. What helped me the most was getting into the pool at least 3 days a week, even if it's for only 10 to 20 minutes initially. Concentrate on correct form first and foremost, don't worry about how fast or how far you can swim, that will come. My suggestion would be with your time constraints would be to do a short swim before or after some of your weight training and your other 3 days. Just a time saving tip that I use, instead of buying swim trunks I buy tri shorts for training, I can go from the treadmill right to the pool without having to change, from there right to Yoga. My first tri I did the breast stroke and side stroke almost exclusively. You may find depending on what your goals are now and what they may be in a few months from now that you might want to rearrange some of your workout times. Good luck with your training and your races!
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| 2006-12-29 5:59 PM in reply to: #636059 |
| New user 5 | Subject: RE: 3 Days a Week to Train and Needing Advice I've actually heard of the Total Immersion DVD but have yet to get it. If anyone has a copy and they are willing to loan it, I'm happy to pay the postage both ways to check it out. My experience with DVDs is I watch them...get what I need to get and then they just sit there and collect dust. If anyone else has any other input I'd love to hear it. Thanks! |
| 2006-12-29 6:09 PM in reply to: #636913 |
| Subject: RE: 3 Days a Week to Train and Needing Advice wallstreetdude68 - 2006-12-29 3:59 PM I've actually heard of the Total Immersion DVD but have yet to get it. If anyone has a copy and they are willing to loan it, I'm happy to pay the postage both ways to check it out. My experience with DVDs is I watch them...get what I need to get and then they just sit there and collect dust. If anyone else has any other input I'd love to hear it. Thanks! You might try the local library. |
| 2006-12-29 9:51 PM in reply to: #636621 |
Extreme Veteran 536 Millersville, MD | Subject: RE: 3 Days a Week to Train and Needing Advice I also have had a hard time giving up the weights. Once you get used to it, getting in a run or bike for 20-3o minutes prior to weights is very attainable. Use those days as your light bike/run days and go longer/harder on the other 3 and combine the swim on those days. Swimming and doing upperbody weights on the same day is pretty tough. |
| 2006-12-30 3:56 AM in reply to: #637045 |
Regular 110 | Subject: RE: 3 Days a Week to Train and Needing Advice Like FGRAY, I had - still having a hard time giving up the weights. Granted, I haven't stopped cold turkey, BUT I drastically changed my weight training since getting into triathlons 2 months ago. Essentially, you can't have the best of both worlds. You need to ask yourself which is more important. Which form of training is going to help you achieve your goals best. I certainly encourage strength training with TRI training, but there is definately a happy medium. I suppose if you were a self made billionare, you could work out weights all day long AND do some serious weight training. But if you're like me, I have a life and need to work to pay the bills, therefore I do the best I can with what time I have available. |
| 2006-12-30 7:42 AM in reply to: #636059 |
Member 70 Novi, MI | Subject: RE: 3 Days a Week to Train and Needing Advice Heres a neat 1 hour workout: Incorporate circuit weight lifting before your training workout. For example, do 1 circuit of 10 excercises (bench, lats, curl, back, row, etc.) without rest, just do 10-15 sit ups between each stop. Rotate parts of the body (back, arms, chest, legs) so you don't need rest between sets. You can complete this circuit in about 15 min. Do a 2nd set and you've got pretty good strength training that only took 30 minutes before you swim, bike or run. During the next 30 min., you should be able to swim 1/2 mile, run 3-4 miles or bike 8-12 miles. Pretty great 1 hr. workout - especially for Sprints. Good luck! Edited by jwright44 2006-12-30 7:43 AM |
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