General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Optimal Tubular Tire Pressure - RACE? Rss Feed  
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2007-05-01 6:04 PM

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Subject: Optimal Tubular Tire Pressure - RACE?
I am racing The Wildflower Half Ironman this weekend. I will be racing on Vittoria Tubulars with a max tire pressure rating of 200 lbs PSI.

Can someone please tell me what tire pressure I should inflate to.

I'm about 142 lbs. My priorities are: Speed, not flatting, rolling resistance, comfort...

Speed is more important than comfort, not flatting is just as important as speed...

I have put Stan's into my tires to help protect against flats... front tire has about 100 miles, rear tire has 22 miles on it.

Thanks in advance for your experiences and expertise!


2007-05-01 9:28 PM
in reply to: #784318

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Subject: RE: Optimal Tubular Tire Pressure - RACE?
I was always told that anything over 130-135 for the road is too much. That much is for track. I would go with 125-135 depending on the course. Some say that 120 is optimal but it all depnds on feel. What have you been training on?
2007-05-02 8:24 AM
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Subject: RE: Optimal Tubular Tire Pressure - RACE?

Here's some guidance Zipp gives for their Tangente tubular tires:

http://www.zipp.com/Portals/0/Shopping/Images/tire_pressures.jpg

Not sure if these would be good recommendations for the Vittoria's or not but, generally, unless you are on a track surface you don't want to be anywhere near the max pressure rating.

2007-05-02 10:04 AM
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Subject: RE: Optimal Tubular Tire Pressure - RACE?
I run veloflex carbons and rate to 8-9bar. One thing to think about is how long from transition time in the morning before the race starts to when you will get on the bike. Most tubbies have latex tubes inside then and they lose a little pressure (conti's have butyl and hold pressure longer, but these have a higher Crr, rolling resistance). That zipp page seems pretty on , i run near 120, never higher.
Inflate you tubbies, then check the amount of air pressure in tire whenever you think you will get on the bike, you can see if you are losing any pressure.
shouldn't be a big deal if you pump them up in the morning, but if it's overnight then definately check them in the morning
2007-05-03 6:32 PM
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Subject: RE: Optimal Tubular Tire Pressure - RACE?
Personally, comfort isn't an issue for tires to me, so I run them as high as possible.  It makes them faster, and more flat resistant.
2007-05-04 9:07 AM
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Subject: RE: Optimal Tubular Tire Pressure - RACE?

bubba76819 - 2007-05-03 6:32 PM Personally, comfort isn't an issue for tires to me, so I run them as high as possible.  It makes them faster, and more flat resistant.

No.  It doesn't.



2007-05-04 11:07 AM
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Subject: RE: Optimal Tubular Tire Pressure - RACE?
Agree with johnnyk
2007-05-04 12:34 PM
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Subject: RE: Optimal Tubular Tire Pressure - RACE?
JohnnyKay - 2007-05-04 9:07 AM

bubba76819 - 2007-05-03 6:32 PM Personally, comfort isn't an issue for tires to me, so I run them as high as possible.  It makes them faster, and more flat resistant.

No.  It doesn't.

Hmmm, interesting.  And what information do you have to support that statement?  Besides my own 20 years of bicycle racing that formed this opinion of mine (and yes it's only my opinion), within a minute of searching found at least 20 research articles that confirm this.  I've cited only a few below...

http://www.rouesartisanales.com/article-1503651.html

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/rolling-resistance-tubular.html

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tires.html

http://www.diablocyclists.com/bicyclescience.htm

http://www.nimble.net/subpages/tirepressure.html

Now granted I am not suggesting "over-inflating" tires, but simply running them at the highest reccomended rating on them.

Anyway, I'm definitely interested in anything you could share as perhaps I've been missing out on the low pressure advantage all this time. 

2007-05-04 1:43 PM
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Subject: RE: Optimal Tubular Tire Pressure - RACE?

I don't have time for each one, but the citation you used from Nimble includes this:

"We find absolutely no performance reason to inflate tires beyond 130 PSI (9 BAR)." 

and:

"The Negative consequences of high inflation pressures include: (1) elimination of the principal shock absorber on a bicycle significantly impacting rider fatigue and equipment wear, (2) degradation of handling from the smaller contact patch (increasing slip rates and side wash out), (3) loss of traction (loss of rear wheel acceleration, and braking skids) , (4) marked increase in flat tires (less tire to road conformance, greater puncture load behind road hazards), and (5) more rapid catastrophic flat tires."

and:

"...exactly the same advice pertains to tubular tires.  Do not over-inflate tubular style tires, for the same reasons, it offers no performance benefits and carries the same detriments of increased shock, and worse handling, traction and flatting."

 

The Sheldon Brown site points to this on tire inflation:

Tire widths are in millimeters, pressure recommendations in pounds per square inch. (Divide by 15 if your gauge reads in bars/atmospheres.)

 

Wheel load 50 mm 37 mm 32 mm 28 mm 25 mm 23 mm 20 mm
100 lbs/50 kg 45 60 75 100 110 120 130
70 lbs/35 kg 35 50 65 80 90 100 110

 

Check the footnote in the Zipp link above too.  I don't know if they have more info on their website anywhere, but I've heard from someone at Zipp that their testing confirmed the types of recommendations they provided there. 

My uderstanding of the matter is that unless the surface is very smooth (i.e., track or maybe some very newly paved roads), the higher inflation will result in more "bounce" on the road and less contact with the pavement.  Therefore less energy transfer from the wheel to the road (and more absorbed by the rider).  Therefore, poorer performance.  Even though the tire will have lower "rolling resistance", the total resistance to forward movement will be greater.  Moderate pressure will provide better "deformation" when you need it and acceptable rolling resistance for a faster overall ride.

Keep doing some searching and next time read through your "evidence" too.  Wink

2007-05-04 2:03 PM
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Subject: RE: Optimal Tubular Tire Pressure - RACE?
I did read the "evidence", but I guess I wasn't smart enough to understand what it was saying as far as the "more bounce = more rolling resistance" translation.   Thanks for the education.   Any feelings on the flat resistance relating to tire pressure?  Obviously a very high pressure tire flat would have a greater occasion for "catostrauphic failure", but as far as just being flat resistant?
2007-05-04 2:16 PM
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Subject: RE: Optimal Tubular Tire Pressure - RACE?

See #4 in the Nimble reference above.  The exception would be pinch flats.  But this is only relevant for clinchers.

I don't think any of the references you cited actually discuss the issue about greater overall resistance specifically (sort of indirectly referenced in that Nimble write-up).  But that's the reason for the recommended pressures that Nimble, Zipp & Sheldon Brown all provide.  Technically, you are right that higher pressure yields lower rolling resistance.  But the "bounce" effect generates more overall resistance to forward motion on most surfaces, despite that lower rolling resistance.



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