Doping and Age Groupers (Page 2)

There is doping at high-level tri. There have been sanctions and suspensions.

http://www.triathletemag.com/Departments/News/2006/storybc97.htm

No factual basis for that it is not as common (and here we hang on definition of "common" as in pro cycling (hence the words "I think" ... logical bases only).

My reasons are (as before, but elaborated) that: 1. triathlon does not have, on any facet, the money deals that pro cycling does ... and therefore doping is likely to be, relative to cycling, less common. 2. Triathlon does not have, on any facet, the exposure or following that pro cycling does ... etc.

I assume that money and glory (and peer/sponsor pressure to those effects) are the main reasons athletes dope. If the money's less and the glory's less, I'd assume the doping would be less, too.

My reasons for thinking AGers dope? Because many of them otherwise go to great lengths to improve, and of those who have the means to dope, I'm sure some of them do. Especially since they won't get caught.

Dude!  I totally know what you're talking about.  I was in my local bike store today, Schlegal Bicycles (http://www.schlegelbicycles.com/) and asked where they kept their EPO stocked, if it was over by the Gu, or if I had to go to a back corner of the store.  Seriously though, how ironic that as I was in there up on their flat panel TV Vino was just starting down the ramp to start his TT. 

Not to mention that being caught with a prescription drug without a proper prescription is a criminal offense. Would your employer really approve of you being criminally prosecuted? Would your family and friends?

Ok...back to the original post...I'm not sure many age groupers dope, but my guess is it's a VERY low percentage.  Pure and simple reason is: it costs a lot. EPO is about $5K a year, and HGH is about $300/month.  That's a LOT of jack for an age grouper who will get no monetary benefit from the treatments, but will harbor all the side effects.  Moreover, not many AG'ers have the resources to train at altitude, harvest blood & centrifuge it, etc.  If it's happening, I think the percentage is very, very small.  Probably no more, percentage wise, than the general population takes drugs of any other kind.

Now...the pros...that's a different deal. Money's at stake, and look to the tour as a case in point of how people will modify their behavior when money, and prestige, are at stake.

As for age groupers who dope, yes, I'd agree with small percentage ... but maybe not due to cost. 'Roids, for example, are easy to get and not so expensive, especially if you can lift some off someone who is taking them for a medical condition. I know people who took them just because they wanted to buff up at the gym and look good for the girls (little do they know ... testicular shrinkage ... impotence ... for starters) ... not even races or podiums at stake.

EPO, HGH, testoerone and steroids are not illegal with a prescription. Of those only Steroids would get me charged with anything without a prescritption.

You don't have to have a medical condition to get prescribed any of these. Its the doctor's discretion.

Another poster suggested it was unlikely people would dope because there is no financial reward for age group doping.  Plenty of people already dope who are not professional athletes. They dope to win or get bigger, or just be better. That would be like saying why would anyone cheat? There is no reward in it. Yet we see cheating all the time, don't we? There is a reward you get your podium, bragging rights, whatever. You get to be faster than the other guy or girl. Due to the nature of triathlon it is kinda hard to cheat, the 2 best ways are doping and drafting. But, doping will help your run splits, too and harder to detect.

Prescription drugs are controlled substances, and having such a drug without a prescription is possession of a controlled substance - a criminal offense. Whether something is a crime and whether the DA decides to prosecute are two different things. The DA probably felt that prosecuting Limbaugh just would not have been worth it given Limbaugh probably had enough money to put on a strong defense and it would have been a high profile case that could have disrupted the DA's office. It's different for a regular Joe Schmoe. I have peaked on bodybuilding sites where steroids are discussed and read about a guy who was busted for possessing the prescription drug Clomid. Clomid is not a steroid; it's a drug given to women who have difficulty conceiving. Seems pretty harmless, and strange that a male would possess this drug. But this drug is commonly used by steroid users as a way to counteract the body's attempt to reduce excessively high levels of testosterone by converting the testosterone to estrogen, which would obviously lead to all sorts of problems in a male such as the growth of breast tissue. The guy eventually got off, I forget how, but he had to appear in court and everything. A conviction would have cost him his career. He was extremely lucky. Had the DA known that the only reason for a male to use Clomid was to prevent the side effects of steroid use, that could have constituted probably cause for a warrant to search the guy's house for steroids. This guy wasn't even a competitive bodybuilder; he just wanted to get big for looks. Sad thing is that he really wasn't all that big, at least not what you'd expect from a steroid user.

As Kenail posted .... read this, it really helps to clarify a lot of things about what performance enhancing is for endurance athletes.

OK, here's the thing:  It's a mindset.  The mindset that winning is more important than the journey to get there.  It's the whole "2nd place is the first loser, and I'm no loser" mentality.  You see it everywhere, not just in sports.  We all know those people who revel in one-upping everyone's stories, or the person at work who will do whatever it takes to get that next raise or promotion.  Those are the types of people driven to this sort of thing.  They don't look at comparing performance to their own past performance; they are caught up in how they rank against everyone else.

It's competitive spirit taken to the next level.  If you don't have that mindset, it doesn't make any sense.  You approach the sport with a completely different paradigm than they do.

People have ALWAYS cheated.  "Winning isn't everything, it's the ONLY thing."  "It's only cheating if you get caught."  "All is fair in love and war."  Be it corked bats and doctored balls in baseball, to the use of drugs for other sports.  It's always been there.

As to its effect on sport:  It is twofold.  One, when someone cheats to win, it sets a precedence.  It is OK to do whatever it takes to get ahead, including break the rules.  Is this a lesson we want our children to learn?  How many people looked up to an athlete, or have kids who do?  Do you want that child to adopt the habits of that athlete?  You want the athlete to be a good example.  Secondly, it ruins the point of competition.  It's no longer about work, and practice, and friendly competition.  It's about who has the best doctors, and destroying your opponents at any cost.  In ancient Greece, all conflict was postponed for the Olympics.  Everyone laid down their arms and issues in order to compete on the athletic field.  That's what sport is supposed to be about.  Coming together to celebrate competition and achievement. 

It depends on where a drug falls on the controlled subsance schedule. Morphine and Amoxycillin both require prescriptions to obtain. Possession of Amoxycillin is not the same as Morphine without a prescription under the law. Steroids are a schedule III drug putting them in  the same class as Vicodin. As far as the regular Joe getting prosecuted for clomid: I won't draw any conlcusions from a second hand anecdote from a self described 'roid abuser on another forum who probably failed to mention this was his 3rd time in court on charges related to steroid abuse or trafficking. :p

That being said I haven't been able to find where Epoetin falls on the Controlled Substance Schedule. It isn't addictive and has a legitimate medical use so that puts it lower but the potential for abuse is high and the side effects from abuse (stroke and death) should bump it back up.

By the way, if I'm sounding nitpicky let me know..I'm trying to inform not correct!

The typical guideline for doping is: artificially altering the body's biochemistry. So a good diet, massage and training in Colorado with a great coach all fall within the spirit of healthy competition. Supplements that are not illegal and are naturally occuring like vitamins, creatine powder and ginseng are considered "food" more or less. (although in some countries different herbs and such are banned like Tuarine so be careful if you travel) I think some over the counter meds and supplements are banned from Olympic competion, but I don't know which ones off hand. Adding EPO, steroids, amphetamine or anything that has no medical 'necessity' and alters bodychemistry is bad. Tylenol=ok, inhaler if you really have asthma=ok, Amphetatmine, testosterone cocktail=bad.

Where to go to get PEDS? I live within 30 minutes drive of the Botox, plastic surgery, youth chasing capital of the world. The safest way is to go to a doctor that specializes in treating rich housewives and Athletes. He or she can prescribe you the correct cocktail for the results you desire. Different sports have different protcols. Baseball needs strength and and eyesight= Steroids and HGH. Cyclists need endurance and strength w/o bulk so EPO which not only increases the oxygen content but you will produce less Lactic acid, HGH and testoerone so you heal quickly and can ride 100 miles a day and a 'gentle' steroid to promote muscle strength. It isn't cheap, though but you may be able to do it for less than $10k a year. If you're on a budget you could try mexico to obtain the drugs and do some research on how to administer them. However, this is really scary, and to be honest I've only heard of EPO use under a doctor's care. But when all those european cyclists died in the '90s from blood doping it didn't look like a doctor was watching very carefully.

BTW I would just like to say this is a great thread! I've read some great posts and this a real issue. I don't know how much it really effects most of us but imagine the sting of missing a podium spot or an IM qualification by a few seconds because the numbskull with too much disposable income in front of you paid a visit to the performance Doctor.

And if anyone wants an idea of how effective EPO is watch the video of Nina Kraft literally passing every pro rider including some men at Kona like they were standing still with a s***eating grin on her face. When you use EPO in competition the advice is to take it down a notch lest people suspect.