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2007-10-16 12:52 PM

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Champion
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Subject: `REAL' IMs ...
I was at the expo before the Chicago Marathon and saw one of our coaches from Team in Training. She asked me how the training was going on so on and I mentioned I'm planning to do three HIMs next year and possibly doing the Oklahoma City IM in 2009.

She said ... `Hm I've never heard of that. Is it a REAL M-dot triathlon?'

I said ... well, it's not one of the majors, but it's the same distances. She just shrugged and said `Well I've never heard of it.'

So my question for debate is if you don't do one of the `REAL' triathlons does that diminish the accomplishment in some people's eyes? I know some people say if you don't do Kona you're not doing and Ironoman.


2007-10-16 12:57 PM
in reply to: #1010513

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Subject: RE: `REAL' IMs ...

So my question for debate is if you don't do one of the `REAL' triathlons does that diminish the accomplishment in some people's eyes? I know some people say if you don't do Kona you're not doing and Ironoman.

Yes, some people feel that way.  Many of them happen to post over on ST.

I have done an NAS 70.3 and they certainly do a VERY good job at it, but any way you slice it, 140.6 is 140.6.

2007-10-16 1:05 PM
in reply to: #1010513

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Giver
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Subject: RE: `REAL' IMs ...

mr2tony - 2007-10-16 1:52 PMSo my question for debate is if you don't do one of the `REAL' triathlons does that diminish the accomplishment in some people's eyes?

It does, but it shouldn't.

140.6 is 140.6.

2007-10-16 1:11 PM
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2007-10-16 1:20 PM
in reply to: #1010548

Elite
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Subject: RE: `REAL' IMs ...
JeepFleeb - 2007-10-16 1:11 PM

Who cares what others think.

Same mileage, same thing.

Exactly.

NAS or Independent....you're still traveling 140.6 miles.

I did Redman 140.6 and I'm willing to stack the difficulty of this race against any NAS event.  Some may be more difficult and some easier, but it's still the distance that is to be commended, not the name of the company organizing the event.

People like the person you spoke to in Chicago simply don't know the difference (or lack thereof) between NAS or Indie, therefor you should dismiss any comments they may make.

 

2007-10-16 1:36 PM
in reply to: #1010513

Westminster, CO
Subject: RE: `REAL' IMs ...

the same discussion should also apply to NAS 70.3 vs inde HIM's.  we all know many indy HIM's around the globe that are quality and respected races.  Although NAS has more marketshare in IM's, I view them the same [wrt inde vs NAS].

me - I'd much rather do a quality inde race than an overpriced NAS race - having said that - off to tackle IMFL in a few weeks......



2007-10-16 1:55 PM
in reply to: #1010513

Coach
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Subject: RE: `REAL' IMs ...

that lady just sounds very ignorant and sadly I can't believe she is a coach and more a coach for TNT (maybe a reason about why they get such a bad reputation?)

Anyway, I am sure she never heard about Wildflower, Roth, ITU racing, etc.? Sadly in the US is quite common find people with the "only IM/NAS/WTC are real triathlons" type of mentallity. But as other said, who cares, IMO it is harder to go short and fast tha slow and long but that is another topic for another thread

2007-10-16 2:00 PM
in reply to: #1010651

Cycling Guru
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Subject: RE: `REAL' IMs ...

A race is a race, who cares what trademark is on it.

3558 did Chesapeakeman at the end of September (where Joel and I did the aqua velo) ...... tell him he didn't do an iron race!  He most certainly did and kicked azz at it.  Or all those people who want to do Silverman - arguably one of the toughest iron distance races on the planet (next to the Norseman).

2007-10-16 2:00 PM
in reply to: #1010513

Coach
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Subject: RE: `REAL' IMs ...
I forgot to mentioned: most of the HIM in the new 70.3 were already established and successful HIM races before the 70.3 series was created.  These races are still independent and run by their old RDs, hence those are not really NAS/WTS events, and these independent races lease the 70.3 name and now are part of the series…
2007-10-16 2:33 PM
in reply to: #1010513

Iron Donkey
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Subject: RE: `REAL' IMs ...

Well, it appeared that way to her.

To me, if you do that race -

YOU WILL BE AN IRONMAN.

period. 

2007-10-16 2:44 PM
in reply to: #1010513

Expert
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Mt. Morris, IL
Subject: RE: `REAL' IMs ...
I always want to ask many of these "elitists" if they consider Silverman a real ironman.  I can assure many of the worlds best would say it is. 


2007-10-16 2:52 PM
in reply to: #1010513

Master
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Subject: RE: `REAL' IMs ...

I think all the independent IMs should move to a 140.7 distance.  Then we can argue who is better.   Technically Ironman is trademarked, so you aren't a real ironman unless you do a sanctioned race.   But, wth cares.   Like you couldn't have finished an M-dot race but can a indy 140.6.   You are still the man (or woman

 

 

 

2007-10-16 3:20 PM
in reply to: #1010513

Extreme Veteran
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Subject: RE: `REAL' IMs ...
2.4 + 112.0 + 26.2 = IRONMAN

....enough said!
2007-10-16 3:26 PM
in reply to: #1010513

Champion
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Chicago
Subject: RE: `REAL' IMs ...
Thanks for that everybody. I figured that'd be the response but there are some otu there who say what she said. To her credit, she didn't remember me because I didn't do any training with TNT groups. TNT is a great program to raise money for the L&L Society but its training programs are more for beginners.

Anyway, OK then, it's the OK140.6 (not IMOK) in 2009. After reading a lot of the IMWI and IMKY and CDA and so on race reports I'm totally inspired. I just hope I survive!
2007-10-16 3:52 PM
in reply to: #1010851

Iron Donkey
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Subject: RE: `REAL' IMs ...

mr2tony - 2007-10-16 3:26 PM ...I just hope I survive!

Sh*t, if I did, YOU most certainly could. 

2007-10-16 4:45 PM
in reply to: #1010513

Extreme Veteran
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Pennsylvania
Subject: RE: `REAL' IMs ...
People can say what they want but the fact of the matter is that you will still be an Ironman. Just because you didn't run in one of the "real" races doesn't diminish the accomplishment one bit.


2007-10-16 4:50 PM
in reply to: #1010926

Expert
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Wind Lake WI
Subject: RE: `REAL' IMs ...
1stTimeTri - 2007-10-16 3:52 PM

mr2tony - 2007-10-16 3:26 PM ...I just hope I survive!

Sh*t, if I did, YOU most certainly could. 

x2

You'll do fine.

2007-10-16 5:37 PM
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2007-10-16 6:39 PM
in reply to: #1010838

Master
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Portland, ME
Subject: RE: `REAL' IMs ...

sixjester - 2007-10-16 3:20 PM 2.4 + 112.0 + 26.2 = IRONMAN ....enough said!

...or if it's in Oklahoma it equals Redman.

Ironman has become such a powerful trademark with those not as tri-geek as us (imagine that) that the the term Ironman is synonomous with 140.6. I wouldn't take offense if someone asked if it is a real ironman I'd just assume they were asking if it was a full 140.6 race....I'd just say, yes it is...



Edited by Jackemy 2007-10-16 6:40 PM
2007-10-16 9:56 PM
in reply to: #1010513

Champion
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No excuses!
Subject: RE: `REAL' IMs ...
I just did Redman last month and I am here to say it is no Ironman

It was only 2.4 miles of swimming, then 112 miles of biking with only a 26.2 mile run after that so I definatly wouldn't say it is an Ironman
2007-10-17 9:16 AM
in reply to: #1010513

Sneaky Slow
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Subject: RE: `REAL' IMs ...

mr2tony - 2007-10-16 1:52 PMShe said ... `Hm I've never heard of that. Is it a REAL M-dot triathlon?' I said ... well, it's not one of the majors branded ones, but it's the same distances.

140.6 is major, regardless of who owns it. 



2007-10-17 10:34 AM
in reply to: #1011091

Champion
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Subject: RE: `REAL' IMs ...
PennState - 2007-10-16 5:37 PM

mr2tony - 2007-10-16 4:26 PM Thanks for that everybody. I figured that'd be the response but there are some otu there who say what she said. To her credit, she didn't remember me because I didn't do any training with TNT groups. TNT is a great program to raise money for the L&L Society but its training programs are more for beginners. Anyway, OK then, it's the OK140.6 (not IMOK) in 2009. After reading a lot of the IMWI and IMKY and CDA and so on race reports I'm totally inspired. I just hope I survive!

Well I think you posted this to get reassurances that you are doing a 'real IM', and you got the answer you wanted.

Snobery exists at all levels... I know guys who run 2:40 marathons who think people who run over 3 hrs. are extremely average. It's life

T NT coaching programs have not impressed me... had a friend doing the marathon plan (she was a newbie)... they upped her mileage really fast and she was injured and had a DNS.



Wait.

People actually take more than three hours to do a marathon? Who ARE these turtles and why do they even bother?
2007-10-17 12:12 PM
in reply to: #1010513

Champion
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Chicago, Illinois
Subject: RE: `REAL' IMs ...
Well I signed up for IMKY because I do not want any IM snobs to think less of what I did but it really does not matter. Its kinda like finishing Kona and not qualifiy for it.

You might as well say you have not ran a marathon until you have ran boston. Some people like to be race snobs.

Why else does the FOP alot of times want to see to elimate BOP from there race?

They do not like the fact that I do in 6 hours what they can do in 3. Most of the time we rarely have an issue expect for races that give bop an early start and when we seed ourselves incorrectly.



Edited by chirunner134 2007-10-17 12:14 PM
2007-10-17 12:37 PM
in reply to: #1010513

Master
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Atlanta, Ga
Subject: RE: `REAL' IMs ...

The answer to anyone who askes a question like that is.. Yes, it is an Ironman (because that's all they can relate to), but it's put on by a different company.. and you can even leave that last part out. It's not like someone who asks a question like that will run to their computer to verify that it's an M-Dot race.. all they need to know is that you are doing an Ironman.

bottom line.. 140.6 is 140.6 and you will be an Ironman if you finish. 

I've had people ask me if I was running the Marathon on July 4th in Atlanta.. also known as the Peachtree Road Race.. also known as a 10k.

2007-10-17 1:37 PM
in reply to: #1011091

Veteran
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Subject: RE: `REAL' IMs ...
PennState - 2007-10-16 3:37 PM

T NT coaching programs have not impressed me... had a friend doing the marathon plan (she was a newbie)... they upped her mileage really fast and she was injured and had a DNS.

While I obviously agree in general with the opinion that a 140.6 is an Ironman regardless of who has the copyright on the term . I mean, does the average non-triathlete even know what exacting distances are involved in an Ironman-distance race ?

Having said that , I do feel the need to stand up for TNT programs. I understand that they do not have a very good reputation and maybe I just had a very good experience but the combination of coaching in 3 different discipline's , taking people from varying backgrounds i.e. couch potatoes to experienced athletes , focussing on core-work in the beginning , and of course team-spirit/camaraderie is quite fantastic , IMO !

While the coaching does account for everyone's ability (LCD-effect) and hence may be perceived as a beginner-focussed program , I think everyone in my group benefitted from the core-work that was enforced early on , the pacing strategy in all disciplines ,etc. While the TNT programs don't take the place of a personalized coach , they do bring a lot more to the table , than they are oftentimes given credit for .

Finally, everyone is encouraged to go at their own pace and folks are allowed to move between pace groups as they feel fit. For eg. there were multiple cycling pace groups - AgeGroup'ers (12-14 mph) , Elite's (15-18 mph) , Pro's (19-22 mph) . I started with the AG and felt comfortable to move into the Elite's towards the end.

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