Help me buy a new car (small SUV)

No, but I love my RAV4. Seemed to have more functional space than the CRV, when I was shopping.

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I rented the Hyundai for 2 days. My a$$ wasn't happy with the seat quality after a 2 hour drive. YMMV, but it might be "lipstick on a pig"

I LOVE car advice questions because I LOVE to give car advice.

I bought a small SUV 6 mos ago. I chose the Saturn Vue, a 2007 AWD with V6

I decided not to look at the models you mentioned for a number of reasons that may have changed.

1. I find the Toyota and Honda models to be overpriced. My Saturn with said engine and drivetrain was under $22k. I didn't get all the fancy add-ons.

2. The Toyota and Honda are WAY too complicated inside. Ever tried cleaning one? Holy nightmare Batman. There are SOOO many nooks and crannies for things to get stuck in, or break. If you have kids, this is a real problem. Every cupholder becomes a trash can. I think the Honda and Toyota have 18 cupholders/trashcans.

3. Recently, Toyota and Honda have started to have reliability issues to the point that statistically, the "American" companies have caught up. Go to J.D. Powers website and you will see.

4. The 2007 Saturn Vue came with a proven Honda engine and transmission, which have always been, and probably will always be, better than the GM ones...

The Hyundai was intriguing, but in order to get the V6 with AWD, you had to get all the other things that pushed the price up more than I could spend, and more than I really wanted (I don't need an in-dash nav, for example). The Escape is worth looking at. After my experience with Mitsu, I wasn't going to buy the Outlander, but it did look and drive well. It might be a car for you to consider (I had the Evolution, which was a high performance car, but unfortunately I got thrown out with the bathwater). The engine was really nice, and the interior, while hastily designed, had some really cool things in it. My Evo, truth be told, held up REALLY well (ever car has flaws), and was the most reliable car I ever owned.

It would be helpful to offer alternatives if you were more detailed in your needs and wants as well as a rough budget. Do you need a new car or would you be willing to buy a 1 or 2 year old car? If I had more money to spend, I would have bought the Lexus RX300 - it is such an elegant SUV and has really held up well. The quality of interior components and it's ergonomics are the best I've ever seen - better than Range Rover, BMW, Porsche, Audi and Mercedes. It cleans up well, and is comfortable as all get out.

I'm 'in the market' too.

I drove a Santa Fe as a rental, and was surprised at how much I liked it.  Didn't really consider the 'cup holder' issue.

I've also driven alot the Ford Escape, Hybrid version, and I LOVE IT.  DZ, what about the Vue Hybrid?  Vue is also high on the potential list.

From what I've read on Edmunds.com, the Escape is one of the most economical small SUV's over 5 years.  That being said, the non-Hybrid costs as much to run as an Exlporer.

Edited by foolproof 2007-12-04 10:01 AM

DZ  thanks for all the GREAT info... if i have anymore questions for you i'll be sure to drop you a line...

Just like with bikes, go drive the cars in question and see what your head and butt think. I am a total car nut, and have had a very weird combination of cars in the last seven years, that I would have never expected. Toyota 4runner, NissanPathfinder, 300ZX TT, Mercedes ML55, Audi A4, S4 , A6, Honda Prelude, Odyssey: The reason for this, is that better built cars have excellent driving dynamics, which translates to things like feedback through the steering wheel, high speed lane changes, brake performance etc. I had an Audi A6 4.2 two years ago, that was a beautiful car to drive, especially at high speed on the highway. The tranny broke, and I decided to ditch it. I had a Ford Escape for a month and it was the worst "driving product" I had driven in recent memory. I'm not sure the Escape should qualify as a "car or SUV" as t is so incompetent in all areas. No feedback from the car, awful handling,awful acceleration, and terrible gas mileage. The interior sucked too. Ford just revamped the bodywork to make it look prettier, but you can't wrap a pig in a dress and fool everybody. I looked at Chrysler and Toyota vans, Land Rover and MB SUV's and I ended up buying a Honda Odyssey, because of the way it drives. The van has surprisingly good handling, good acceleration, and excellent mpg for a larger vehicle.

www.rankingsandreviews.com is an interesting new site for car buying help. Newsweek runs it, and they aggregate all the reviews they can get on each car and rank cars amongst their peer groups.

Edited by Z-dog 2007-12-04 10:26 AM

My uncle just picked up a Rav4 and loves it. They drive it more then his Avalon (he's got a woody for toyota for some reason)

My wife and I are going to be car shopping as soon as our house in PA sells and will be looking at small SUVs as well. I'd give the Escape a look. We bought a used 01 and have put 80,000 miles on top of the 50,000 it came with. We have put about a grand into it besides oil and brakes. Although it's in the shop as we speak and is going to run another 700 dollars. The new ones haven't changed the interior much and I can say from expirience, you can fit far more crap in them then you could imagine. I had a big snow blower in the back on Saturday.

The 01 has some noise issues that seem to have been resolved in the newer versions. I picked the escape as my first choice for rentals when I was traveling for work that way I didn't have to figure out a new car every week while trying to find the hotel in the dark after flying all day.

We're on the fence about buying another, mostly because we don't want to have two escapes. If we were replacing the current escape I'd probably buy another. As it is, my wife's nissan sentra needs to go first. I used to be in the US cars fall apart camp, but this one has changed my mind. Our sentra still has cost less to maintain, but the main reason is that it's parts just cost less. From what I have seen the other small SUVs are about even on cost of disposable things (Pads, rotors, filters)

The other cars on our list will be the CRV, the Rav4, and a subie, either a forester or outback. We might also consider going the crossover route but they are to close to minivans for our taste. The Santa Fe doesn't make the cut because I really didn't like the interior when I drove a rental for a week, and I think the saturn is just arse ugly.

If you don't need to seat more then 4 you should look at the Honda element... I get mine in a few days. I can't believe I just bought my bike a car

Edited by Global 2007-12-04 11:51 AM

I've done a lot of research into the hybrids, and reached the following conclusion:

Don't buy a hybrid if you want to save money. Buy a hybrid to make a statement.

The fact is, that for a hybrid to "pay off", you need to own it for more than 6 years. At that point, you will need to replace the battery pack, and who knows how much that will cost. Not only will you have to pay for the new battery, but one would need to expect to pay for disposal of the old one. You pay a premium on the car because a. they are simply more expensive than a regular car, and b. your gas mileage will vary significantly from what the EPA says.

I like my Saturn. I find the looks to be satisfactory, and so far the build has been fine (only 11k miles on it so far). It doesn't have the bells and whistles that the Honda's and Toyota's have, but it is a good value for the money. I wish it had more cupholders (2 more, in fact - it only has 4). The ride is fairly truck-like - the big sidewall tires keep it fairly disconnected to rode.

As the poster above mentioned (I don't understand the comparison - you can't compare a luxury sedan ride to a compact SUV ride - it's like comparing apples to hub-caps), the SUV's will typically handle differently than a car/minivan. You have to understand that going into it.

J.D. Power is a pretty good source for statistical analysis of cars. My issue with Consumer Reports is that they only do initial assessments. They don't follow up like J.D. Power does. Also be wary of consumer reviews - they tend to skew the results to the negative. If someone is happy with their purchase, they typically don't go out of their way to say something. If someone is unhappy, or they are having problems, they will seek help on-line, and are more likely to say something negative.

I was all into the hybrids at first, but they are not the answer some people claim they are. We have to dispose of the toxic batteries when we are done, and to top it off our little nissan four banger gets better highway mileage then almost all the hybrids out there.

And take the Escape Hybrid for example. If they made a hybrid version of my escape (The lowest trim level possible) it's would only be a few thousand more, but they only make the hybrid with the highest trim level, leather, navigation, the works. It ends up being of 30k I think.

I want an element so bad. The wife gets to pick the next car and she thinks they're to ugly for her to drive. It'll be at the top of the list when I get to pick out the car.

I'm surprised no one's mentioned the Subaru Forester. It's marginally smaller than the Rav4 or the SantaFe, I think, but it's got lots of room, can come with a dealer-installed roof rack for bikes, and is reasonably priced and inexpensive to own.

Well, the OP asked about compact SUV's. If you want to talk about the Forrester, you would also need to discuss the Pontiac Vibe/Toyota Matrix, The Jeep Compass, the Focus Wagon, and others. Now we're getting clearly out of the compact SUV category...

Honda Element all the way! It's easily cleaned, roomy, and who cares what the outside looks like as long as you're driving comfortably?

The price of gas is not going to change the metrics. You'll be paying $5/gal whether you drive a hybrid or not. If you're saving 15%, your saving 15% regardless of the cost. You are still paying a premium to drive the hybrid. You actually might end up spending MORE because people who don't understand the relation will be clamoring to buy the hybrids, driving up the cost of the new car. You're better bet is to buy an older car that gets good gas mileage to begin with. My friend had a 90's Honda Civic and got 40mpg. Or, drive less.

What alot of consumers don't understand is that you can't go by the EPA numbers. Your driving habits make a HUGE difference on your gas mileage. Driving 65 on the highway instead of 75 makes a big difference. If you are heavy on the gas pedal, you are killing your gas mileage, especially if you have a turbo on your car (many of you do - most Audi's people buy have turbo-chargers, for example). Make sure your tire's are properly inflated. These things can make as much 10% improvement on your gas mileage (going from 20 to 22mpg is a 10% improvement) . That translates into 330 miles per gas tank, instead of 300... Those are real numbers.

Buying an SUV is NOT a good gas mileage choice. You're better off buying a small sedan wth a 4cyl engine. Unfortunately, the American consumer, particularly people older than Gen-X, tie freedom to their car, and Americans love big engines. If you want to make a difference, it's not a purchasing decision as much as it is a LIFESTYLE change. Just like your health. Going on a diet isn't going to turn you into a triathlete. Changing your lifestyle will.

(do you like how I brought that home? - go D.Z. hehehehe)

Oh, and regarding the new Vue. Yeah, I've seen that the biggest problem with them is their gas mileage. Starting with 2008, GM made the brilliant decision to change what made Saturn a Saturn. They decided to put metal body panels back on, and they decided to install their own mesozoic era 3.6 Double Overhead Cam V-6 into it. What a crappy engine. One of the reasons why the Japanese are kicking the tar out of American cars is their engines. The American companies have come a long way in recent years in design and build, but their engines are still lagging behind. Mitsubishi, Honda, Toyota, all have some sort of variable valve timing which improves engine efficiency. It costs more to make, and certainly more to design, but the Japanese were able to spend the money there. (there are a gazillion different reasons over the years, from reduced labor costs, to government subsidies a couple decades ago). The American companies have made some improvements, and are starting to figure out that people in the NorthEast and central plain states actually have a. money to spend and b. a desire for AWD on cars (thanks Subaru), but they are still figuring out that engine efficiency influences buying decisions. GM, of course, dropped the ball, when they installed their own engine on the new Vue.

If you can find a 2007 or earlier Vue, it's not a bad option. They'll be incredibly cheap because they don't retain their value. But that will change.

Well said D.Z.

Hybrids are not the answer. Their a statement, but in the long run they aren't going to save us. A societal shift away from the auto is the answer. You're in shape, ride you're bike more.

One of the things that got me stoked on moving was the ablility to live near work and be able to ride to the grocery store. I can't wait for next summer so I can use the kid cart to haul groceries on my bike.

People always tell us we need to buy a bigger car because we have a kid. I ask why and all they can ever say is "because". That is the problem with society today. You have to get bigger because it is what everyone else does.

Sorry for that bit of rant, it wasn't really aimed at your question.

We have a CRV -- awesome.

The Subaru Forester XT does the quarter-mile in roughly 13.4 seconds, not bad for a grocery getter, though it's $30,000. The base Foresters run about $22,000.

The RAV4 is great because it's a Toyota and will never die.