General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Cracked bicycle frame... Rss Feed  
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2007-12-13 9:24 PM

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Subject: Cracked bicycle frame...

I'm taking my bike to the LBS on Saturday because I was giving her a rub down and noticed a spot where the frame may be cracked.  This would be my first experience with a cracked bike frame.  How bad is it?  Does it depend on the size of the crack, or is a crack a crack?

I just wanted to be prepared if I took it in and the guy says, "Yeah, dude, you need a new frame."

The more I peek at it, the more I think it's probably chipped paint...but to be on the safe side I'm taking it in anyway.



2007-12-14 12:12 AM
in reply to: #1101192

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Subject: RE: Cracked bicycle frame...

Is it steel, titanium, aluminum,  or carbon fiber?

 

2007-12-14 2:29 AM
in reply to: #1101192

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Subject: RE: Cracked bicycle frame...
Cracked frame usually means a new one will be needed relatively soon... Steel is a bit different since it can be welded back again relatively easy.

Carbon can sometimes be repaired, talk to Craig Calfee http://www.calfeedesign.com.
But I don't think it's that cheap to do, so you may want to look at the replacement cost as well... Also, keep in mind that some manufacturers offers a crash replacement guarantee, and if they don't, you can always ask how much it would be to replace a cracked frame. You may be surprised how willing most manufacturers are to go out of their way to keep you as a customer.
2007-12-14 7:50 AM
in reply to: #1101192

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Subject: RE: Cracked bicycle frame...
Did you buy it new or used?

In aluminum, a crack is a crack. Ti is repairable, as is steel, but with steel, it depends on the value of the frame if it is worth repairing?

If you bought the frame new and it is still under warranty usually you get a replacement no questions asked.
2007-12-14 9:09 AM
in reply to: #1101356

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Subject: RE: Cracked bicycle frame...
I went through this about 2 months ago. I have a Kutoa K-Factor and was cleaning it up when I noticed a small crack on the chain stay.

I called my LBS where I purchased it (All3Sports) and they told me to bring it in and they could check it out for me. They also advised me to call the manufacturer.

Well I did call the manufacturer and the rep was nothing but a complete b*tch. She first tried to get me to admit that I abused the bike (ask my wife if I baby this thing more than her and you will understand the care I put in my equipment). After I convinced her that I did not abuse the bike she then told me that I would be responsible for shipping and handling of the new frame! Are you kidding me!!!!!!!!!!

Well lucky for me All3Sports supported my complaints and gave me a store credit for the shipping and the assembly of the new frame....yes someone has to pay to break down the old bike and install the new frame......the manufacturers don't reimburse the LBS for this work.

Hopefully you have a good LBS that you purchased the bike from; if not you are looking at $150-$200 to warranty the bike....THESE MANUFACTURERS TAKE NO RESPONSIBILTY IN THE LACK OF QUALITY CONTROL....I
2007-12-14 9:43 AM
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Subject: RE: Cracked bicycle frame...

audiojan - 2007-12-14 3:29 AM Cracked frame usually means a new one will be needed relatively soon... Steel is a bit different since it can be welded back again relatively easy.

Just a minor correction...steel frames are not normally welded if they are the type with lugs at the joints.  Instead, they are brazed with either silver solder (newer) or brass (really old style).  There may be some welded steel frames out there, and if the joints are lugless, then they probably are TIG welded.  Aluminum frames are definitely welded.  A welded frame can be diagnosed and repaired, but it should be done by a competent frame builder, since he'll need to grind out the crack to eliminate a stress riser when the frame is repaired.  Normally a welded frame should not crack, since deposited weld metal has a higher tensile and yield strength than the base material itself.  A crack doesn't just happen, but usually appears as a result of some traumatic stress to the frame, such as a crash.  Titanium frames are welded, and even more care needs to be taken with them being repaired, since they should be welded in an inert gas atmosphere to prevent oxidation and contamination in the weld puddle.

 



Edited by max 2007-12-14 9:44 AM


2007-12-14 10:17 AM
in reply to: #1101192

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Subject: RE: Cracked bicycle frame...
I also have a small crack on the tube that holds the seat on a used GT road bike.  I believe it is aluminum.  I guess this was a common thing and GT recalled them but I guess the person who sold me the bike (cheaply) did not see??  Anyway, I want to sell it but would like to get it welded first.  Where and how much would it cost?  I am a novice so I don't know what the model is.
2007-12-14 10:42 AM
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Subject: RE: Cracked bicycle frame...

Unless you are talking a very high-end or collectible bike, repair is never going to be cost effective.  Labor is going to cost more than the price of a newer, probably better, frame.  If it is under warranty, you'll get a new frame.  If not, start frame shopping and plan on moving your components over. 

I would be pretty carefull riding a cracked frame.  It is pretty much an injury waiting to happen. 

2007-12-14 1:36 PM
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Subject: RE: Cracked bicycle frame...

TeddieMao - 2007-12-14 11:17 AM I also have a small crack on the tube that holds the seat on a used GT road bike.  I believe it is aluminum.  I guess this was a common thing and GT recalled them but I guess the person who sold me the bike (cheaply) did not see??  Anyway, I want to sell it but would like to get it welded first.  Where and how much would it cost?  I am a novice so I don't know what the model is.

I would be leery of having this repaired unless it's by a qualified aluminum welder, and specifically someone who works or builds aluminum bike frames.  The tubing used in aluminum frames is thin and to an inexperienced hand, it's pathetically easy to strike an arc on a frame with a TIG torch and simply blow a huge hole in the tubing.  Now you've created even more problems.  You can also bring up problems with heat induced distortion any time you start welding, and it can be really easy to throw off the precise alignment in a bike frame, making it track poorly when ridden.

Like another post mentioned, unless it's a reasonably expensive bike, say like $3000 or more, it's not worth trying to fix the frame.  Better off to find a replacement frame and transfer all the components over.

I say these things about welding from nearly 30 years of experience as a nuclear and military certified welding inspector.  Granted, our company doesn't work on bike frames, but I do know what the hazards are with cracked welds, as well as the pitfalls that are there with trying to repair thin material.  Often times the damage to a bike frame is more than what might be visible to the untrained eye.  I use a variety of methods to examine welds every day, including magnetic particle (on carbon steel) and liquid penetrant methods, as well as x-ray and ultrasound.

 



Edited by max 2007-12-14 1:39 PM
2007-12-14 3:38 PM
in reply to: #1101616

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Subject: RE: Cracked bicycle frame...
jamesehatcher - 2007-12-14 9:09 AM


Hopefully you have a good LBS that you purchased the bike from; if not you are looking at $150-$200 to warranty the bike....THESE MANUFACTURERS TAKE NO RESPONSIBILTY IN THE LACK OF QUALITY CONTROL....I


Kuota may suck, but Gary Fisher, Trek and Lemond all under the same parent company will replace your frame no questions asked. I have no experience with other makers though.

2007-12-14 3:47 PM
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Subject: RE: Cracked bicycle frame...
jamesehatcher - 2007-12-14 9:09 AM

I went through this about 2 months ago. I have a Kutoa K-Factor and was cleaning it up when I noticed a small crack on the chain stay.

I called my LBS where I purchased it (All3Sports) and they told me to bring it in and they could check it out for me. They also advised me to call the manufacturer.

Well I did call the manufacturer and the rep was nothing but a complete b*tch. She first tried to get me to admit that I abused the bike (ask my wife if I baby this thing more than her and you will understand the care I put in my equipment). After I convinced her that I did not abuse the bike she then told me that I would be responsible for shipping and handling of the new frame! Are you kidding me!!!!!!!!!!

Well lucky for me All3Sports supported my complaints and gave me a store credit for the shipping and the assembly of the new frame....yes someone has to pay to break down the old bike and install the new frame......the manufacturers don't reimburse the LBS for this work.

Hopefully you have a good LBS that you purchased the bike from; if not you are looking at $150-$200 to warranty the bike....THESE MANUFACTURERS TAKE NO RESPONSIBILTY IN THE LACK OF QUALITY CONTROL....I


You might be a little more understanding of the apprehension when you have seen some of the wrecks people try to warranty. JRA and all.


2007-12-14 3:51 PM
in reply to: #1101687

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Subject: RE: Cracked bicycle frame...
max - 2007-12-14 9:43 AM

audiojan - 2007-12-14 3:29 AM Cracked frame usually means a new one will be needed relatively soon... Steel is a bit different since it can be welded back again relatively easy.

Just a minor correction...steel frames are not normally welded if they are the type with lugs at the joints. Instead, they are brazed with either silver solder (newer) or brass (really old style). There may be some welded steel frames out there, and if the joints are lugless, then they probably are TIG welded. Aluminum frames are definitely welded. A welded frame can be diagnosed and repaired, but it should be done by a competent frame builder, since he'll need to grind out the crack to eliminate a stress riser when the frame is repaired. Normally a welded frame should not crack, since deposited weld metal has a higher tensile and yield strength than the base material itself. A crack doesn't just happen, but usually appears as a result of some traumatic stress to the frame, such as a crash. Titanium frames are welded, and even more care needs to be taken with them being repaired, since they should be welded in an inert gas atmosphere to prevent oxidation and contamination in the weld puddle.



I've been looking for a steel roadie and I have seen one from a large company that is lugged. Almost all of the current crop of steel is welded.

As for the rest, I was just to lazy to go that in depth. I wouldn't have anyone but a reputable frame builder do the welding to repair a frame. And if it is Ti I'd only send it to someone who builds Ti frames.

Edited by graceful_dave 2007-12-14 3:55 PM
2007-12-14 6:12 PM
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Subject: RE: Cracked bicycle frame...

graceful_dave - 2007-12-14 4:51 PM  I've been looking for a steel roadie and I have seen one from a large company that is lugged. Almost all of the current crop of steel is welded. As for the rest, I was just to lazy to go that in depth. I wouldn't have anyone but a reputable frame builder do the welding to repair a frame. And if it is Ti I'd only send it to someone who builds Ti frames.

Thanks for the update Dave!  It's been a long time since I've shopped for steel frames.  The last one I had was a custom frame built by Tom Kellog, who later started Spectrum Cycles and went into the titanium route too.  Yeah I agree with the Ti advice...gotta have an experienced welder and frame builder doing that one!

 

2007-12-14 8:42 PM
in reply to: #1101192

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Subject: RE: Cracked bicycle frame...

Mine's aluminum...so sounds like if it's a crack I should be able to talk the Missus into a new frame...jackpot.  Anyways, taking it in tomorrow to the LBS.  Fingers all crossed.

Oh, I bought it used.  So there's no warranty.  Anyway, thanks for the responses!



Edited by davealt 2007-12-14 8:42 PM
2007-12-14 9:38 PM
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Subject: RE: Cracked bicycle frame...
max - 2007-12-14 6:12 PM

graceful_dave - 2007-12-14 4:51 PM I've been looking for a steel roadie and I have seen one from a large company that is lugged. Almost all of the current crop of steel is welded. As for the rest, I was just to lazy to go that in depth. I wouldn't have anyone but a reputable frame builder do the welding to repair a frame. And if it is Ti I'd only send it to someone who builds Ti frames.

Thanks for the update Dave! It's been a long time since I've shopped for steel frames. The last one I had was a custom frame built by Tom Kellog, who later started Spectrum Cycles and went into the titanium route too. Yeah I agree with the Ti advice...gotta have an experienced welder and frame builder doing that one!



Kellog makes some sweet bikes. The tri bikes my first bike shop boss rode were some of Tom's first spectrum frames.

If you do need a frame repair done, he is an expert. I've been involved i the tear down and rebuild of some of his repairs and the bikes come back better then new.
2007-12-14 11:19 PM
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Subject: RE: Cracked bicycle frame...
I went through the same concern. I have an aluminum cervelo and after cleaning it, thought it was cracked. Called Cervelo and they told me to bring it into a dealer to check it out. However, they said it is more common for an aluminum frame to crack at the welds as opposed to in the middle of a tube. Brought it in to the dealer and they said it was just a crack in the clearcoat/paint. They had also confirmed the weld theory but not sure if they just got that from Cervelo or it was their own experience.

davealt - 2007-12-13 7:24 PM

I'm taking my bike to the LBS on Saturday because I was giving her a rub down and noticed a spot where the frame may be cracked. This would be my first experience with a cracked bike frame. How bad is it? Does it depend on the size of the crack, or is a crack a crack?

I just wanted to be prepared if I took it in and the guy says, "Yeah, dude, you need a new frame."

The more I peek at it, the more I think it's probably chipped paint...but to be on the safe side I'm taking it in anyway.



2007-12-14 11:52 PM
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Subject: RE: Cracked bicycle frame...

graceful_dave - 2007-12-14 10:38 PM Kellogg makes some sweet bikes. The tri bikes my first bike shop boss rode were some of Tom's first spectrum frames. If you do need a frame repair done, he is an expert. I've been involved i the tear down and rebuild of some of his repairs and the bikes come back better then new.

I got mine from him in 1977 when he was building them in his basement down the road from the Velodrome in Trexlertown PA.  He had just built all the frames for the 1976 US Olympic team and that kinda put him on the map!  Columbus tubing, instead of the old Reynolds 531 everyone else was using.  That was one of the stiffest frames I've ever ridden.  6 speed in the rear, an antique today!! 

I think at the time, he and Ralph Boston and Ben Serotta were all just starting up...it was a good time to be a custom frame builder in the northeast!

 



Edited by max 2007-12-14 11:54 PM
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