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2008-05-27 12:14 AM

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Subject: car vs ped (me)

Well it happened. I got hit by a car but thankfully he was at a stop sign and I was going up hill so the impact was not as bad as it could have been. I was going south on PCH where the Ruby's Shake Shack is located near Crystal Cove State Park. There was a car at the stop sign leaving the shack. My boyfriend was in front of me only by a few feet. He rode past the car but for some reason, the driver didn't see me and hit me. Luckily, I wasn't in front of him. The front corner of his car hit the front wheel of my bike and pushed me out into the first lane of traffic (which is the third lane according to police). Thankfully, there weren't any cars approaching. My bf helped me to the side of the road where I could collect myself. When I realized that I was okay, I checked out my bike...cracked in three places, front wheel is bent, derailleur is messed up, need I go on. So I acknowledge the driver and he says he is sorry and that he didn't see me and he would pay for the cost of the bike. Seemed very sincere. A few hours later, my bf calls him. He asks him to meet us at the bike shop. He can buy me the same bike but new and be done with this whole thing. But no...Totally different attitude. He says that its my fault, I ran into him, and that I wasn't paying attention. He started throwing out all this attorney lingo, that he wants me to pay for the damage to his car for running into it, blah blah blah. My bf and I were advised to make a police report the next day. I know...why didn't I call the police at the time? I didn't know to. We got the guys CDL #, name, and phone number. The next day we contact him again to try and get his insurance info. He says he doesn't want it to go that far and resists on giving it. I told him I want him to buy me a brand new bike since mine is not repairable, at the shop where I do business. He says he will buy me a knew bike but will find it cheaper else where and in return, wants my bike that he hit. Why does this stuff happen on holiday weekends! At this point, I plan to contact an attorney tomorrow and hope for the best. I really don't have money for one so I'm not sure how this will work out. But I'm okay minus some road rash and a few bruises. I had to put a heating pad on my lower back having some pain discomfort and my left knee is sore. I have my first triathlon in the middle of June and don't know what I'm going to do. This was my first bike and as silly as it sounds, I cried! It was a FELT F4. I just want another bike! Oh! And by the way, he drives a maserati and lives in the gated area above Crystal Cove State Park. I would have thought he'd pay me off right then and there in cash. But he wants to go the attorney route so fine, lets go!

 



Edited by rspencer 2008-05-27 12:34 AM


2008-05-27 12:19 AM
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Subject: RE: car vs ped (me)

If you haven't already, file a police report. It's going to be a tough road though, as it will escalate into a "he said / she said" situation, unless you have the contact info of a few witnesses.

Best of luck on getting reimbursed for the bike. 

2008-05-27 7:40 AM
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Subject: RE: car vs ped (me)
a couple of thoughts.

first, I'm glad you are ok. 2. How old was the bike? Unless it was new, as in a few weeks, I wouldn't buy you a new bike either. Niether would a insurance company. I would offer you fair value for the bike before the crash. Example, if the bike was 2 years old, I might offer to pay for half the cost of a new bike. Why? becuase thats what your bike was worth before it was broken in two. 3. If he does offer to buy you a brand new bike, I think he should be allowed your old bike. If you say its a total loss, why would you want it?
2008-05-27 7:53 AM
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Subject: RE: car vs ped (me)
file the police report. I'd remind him that you have injuries and that you too are going to get an attorney unless he wants to resolve amicably by buying you a new bike. My guess is he didn't know how much bikes were but given his driving of a Maserati the cheap ****** shouldn't care. He may get scared if you start talking injury and just want to be done with it.

If he then wants the old bike, just give it to him I say.

Edited by bboston88 2008-05-27 7:54 AM
2008-05-27 8:32 AM
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Subject: RE: car vs ped (me)
Sucks to hear bout your misfortune, but I'm happy to see you typing about it from home and not the hospital.

Lesson learned, always call the police, file the report and make sure you are covered legally. If you have no report it's a he said/she said and you are on shaky ground legally.

Good luck toward a new bike and speedy healing!
2008-05-27 10:45 AM
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Subject: RE: car vs ped (me)
ohiost90 - 2008-05-27 8:40 AM

a couple of thoughts.

first, I'm glad you are ok. 2. How old was the bike? Unless it was new, as in a few weeks, I wouldn't buy you a new bike either. Niether would a insurance company. I would offer you fair value for the bike before the crash. Example, if the bike was 2 years old, I might offer to pay for half the cost of a new bike. Why? becuase thats what your bike was worth before it was broken in two. 3. If he does offer to buy you a brand new bike, I think he should be allowed your old bike. If you say its a total loss, why would you want it?



Because he's going to use the old bike to mount a defense against an injury claim. Don't give the guy anything, he hit you with a vehicle, and in the course of employement too (he gave you a CDL number). You should have filed a police report immediately without leaving the scene. Now it's all a he said she said deal and as stated above, unless you have multiple witnesses on your side, odds are low you'll get much of anything. You probably won't even get full reimbursement for medical expenses now.


2008-05-27 11:18 AM
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Subject: RE: car vs ped (me)
chadtower - 2008-05-27 11:45 AM

ohiost90 - 2008-05-27 8:40 AM

a couple of thoughts.

first, I'm glad you are ok. 2. How old was the bike? Unless it was new, as in a few weeks, I wouldn't buy you a new bike either. Niether would a insurance company. I would offer you fair value for the bike before the crash. Example, if the bike was 2 years old, I might offer to pay for half the cost of a new bike. Why? becuase thats what your bike was worth before it was broken in two. 3. If he does offer to buy you a brand new bike, I think he should be allowed your old bike. If you say its a total loss, why would you want it?



Because he's going to use the old bike to mount a defense against an injury claim. Don't give the guy anything, he hit you with a vehicle, and in the course of employement too (he gave you a CDL number). You should have filed a police report immediately without leaving the scene. Now it's all a he said she said deal and as stated above, unless you have multiple witnesses on your side, odds are low you'll get much of anything. You probably won't even get full reimbursement for medical expenses now.


yeah, having a bike cracked in three places, a bent front wheel, and a messed up RD is a hell of a defense to prove one didn't get hurt on said bike.

BTW, I think C in CDL is California, not commercial. But if it commercial, I want to his job as they apperently drive maseratis doing the course of employement.

2008-05-27 11:31 AM
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Subject: RE: car vs ped (me)
First off I am glad you are ok.

I don't know what it is like around the country but hitting a bike, or motorcycle for that matter, in florida is the same as hitting a pedestrian.

i don't think it will matter if you hit him or he hit you. He was pulling into the flow of traffic from a stop sign. Unless you ran a stop sign, or did not give right of way as per the rules of the road (and from what you said you did not) all the blame falls onto him.

He is going to say what ever he can to make you go away. Do not be intimidated by him. Contact an attorney, file the police report and go to the doctor. Let the lawyer handle the rest.

Good luck.

2008-05-27 11:57 AM
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Subject: RE: car vs ped (me)

chadtower - 2008-05-27 8:45 AM
ohiost90 - 2008-05-27 8:40 AM a couple of thoughts. first, I'm glad you are ok. 2. How old was the bike? Unless it was new, as in a few weeks, I wouldn't buy you a new bike either. Niether would a insurance company. I would offer you fair value for the bike before the crash. Example, if the bike was 2 years old, I might offer to pay for half the cost of a new bike. Why? becuase thats what your bike was worth before it was broken in two. 3. If he does offer to buy you a brand new bike, I think he should be allowed your old bike. If you say its a total loss, why would you want it?
Because he's going to use the old bike to mount a defense against an injury claim. Don't give the guy anything, he hit you with a vehicle, and in the course of employement too (he gave you a CDL number). You should have filed a police report immediately without leaving the scene. Now it's all a he said she said deal and as stated above, unless you have multiple witnesses on your side, odds are low you'll get much of anything. You probably won't even get full reimbursement for medical expenses now.

Disagree.

CDL = California Drivers License

Sure there are witnesses - globalchaos is one.  He rode by stop sign, saw the car stopped, his girl was behind, next thing she's down and he hit her.  Driver entering flow of traffic has the responsibility not to hit others.  I'd say 100% clear liability.

Since he doesn't want to pay, or play fairly, report it to (1) the police (2) your insurance company and (3) the DMV via an SR-1 report - get it on the internet (http://www.dmv.ca.gov/forms/sr/sr1.htm).  Your insurance co. should be able to suss out whether he has insurance and who it is through.  Or, they will conclude that he is uninsured and perhaps they will cover your damage if you have uninsured motorist coverage.  THis is what I had to do for a car accident where the other dirver initially said he would take care of it then flaked.  And no, it does not go on your record.  Either your insurance or his will pay.

Oh, and if insurance does pay and totals the bike, they are entitled to it (they bought it) but rarely do they take it.  THey should give you replacement value - what would it cost to replace today

BTW, your damages may not be enough, but a PI lawyer should take a case like this on contingency



Edited by ChrisM 2008-05-27 11:59 AM
2008-05-27 12:02 PM
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Subject: RE: car vs ped (me)
ChrisM - 2008-05-27 12:57 PM

CDL = California Drivers License





Good point. Pretty much everywhere else it means Commercial.


Sure there are witnesses - globalchaos is one.




She's going to have a hard time convincing people he was riding with his head on backwards. Being present doesn't mean he saw it, and from her description, sounds like he probably didn't.
2008-05-27 12:09 PM
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Subject: RE: car vs ped (me)

Ah, the fallacy of "eyewitness" testimony.  Sure, it would help, but many many cases are based on circumstantial evidence and accident reconstruction.  Here's how it goes.  Globalchaos says:

my gf was behind me, i just looked.  The car was stopped at the stop sign, or was just coming up to it as I passed.  I heard a crash behind me, my gf was now down in the road and the car was next to her.  Guy in car says "sorry I hit you."

Drivers version: .... what?  I didn't see her? THat's no defense, he has 100% responsibility when entering the road.  She veered into him as he wa stopped?  Impossible, given the way the accident ended up.  Whatever he comes up with, it's not going to make sense at any point

OP gives her version.  What's the most reasponable conclusion to be drawn from these two witness statements?



2008-05-27 12:23 PM
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Subject: RE: car vs ped (me)

Right, but at that point it has become circumstantial, and while that's great for determining likely fault, it's bad for determining awards. They can't put a definite fault level on either party so awards get neutered. That pretty much always benefits the party at fault.
2008-05-27 12:31 PM
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Well, We'll just have to disagree on those points

To the OP, good luck in your recovery and definitely keep us posted

2008-05-27 12:33 PM
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Subject: RE: car vs ped (me)
You are entitled to be reimbursed for all of your loss, and that includes repair/replacement of the bike, any medical expenses you incurred, etc.

As stated in California Civil Code section 3333:

"For breach of an obligation not arising from contract [which this is], the measure of damages, except where otherwise expressly provided in this code, is the amount which will compensate for all the detriment proximately caused thereby, whether it could have been anticipated or not."

Damages include things like: property damage, pain, suffering, inconvenience, loss of use, etc.

You have suffered a "battery" unconsented touching (this is what you get sued for when you hit another person's car) and your bike is an extension of you under the law.

Make sure you see your doctor for your injuries to make sure you won't have anything lingering. Don't sign anything from his insurance company until you are sure you have a complete understanding of the extent of your damages (to the bike and yourself).

Document everything (including your road rash, the place the accident occured (during the same time of day), and your bike with photos, statements, etc. Take him to small claims if the amount of damages is less than $7500.

Good luck, keep us posted...I'm sure he doesn't want this on his record, so the leverage is pretty good right now. Talk to a PI lawyer, and get some legal advice, but becareful about anyone who wants to take an hourly fee.

I'm a real estate/business lawyer, so don't take my comments as legal advice, but you shouldn't take it lying down.
2008-05-27 12:35 PM
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Subject: RE: car vs ped (me)
You might consider lawyering up, although the bike isn't necessarily expensive enough to make it worth that. But I'd definitely file a report and include his refusal to provide insurance info, even though it was after the fact. One way or another, you need to go after his insurance company for damages...which, by the way, include your emotional trauma that is now keeping you from riding...right? Don't be the amiable victim in this situation. He violated the California vehicular code (failure to yield entering the roadway) and negligently caused damages, both property and emotional; you didn't. And you have a witness. All the recommendations about _immediately_ starting a paper trail of reports are right on the money. Good luck.
2008-05-27 12:35 PM
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Subject: RE: car vs ped (me)
ChrisM - 2008-05-27 1:31 PM

Well, We'll just have to disagree on those points

To the OP, good luck in your recovery and definitely keep us posted




Yeah. The difference is going to be made in how accurate her story is and whether or not dude is willing to lie in court.


2008-05-27 12:54 PM
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Subject: RE: car vs ped (me)

If I were you, I would hold on to that bike at all cost!!!!  If it becomes a he said, she said, the bike is your evidence of what happened. Without it, you really have nothing to stand on. And I'll bet the damage on his car is already wiped clean!

And (granted I don't know the legal stands behind this) I don't agree with a "depreciated" value for the bike, same as a car.  You don't really have the option to go to your local bike shop and purchase a used bike, like you can a car. Especially if it has a cracked frame. Therefore the cost of replacement is just that. Granted you don't get to upgrade, but you shouldn't be penalized either.

 

Keep fighting. My bet is once he got home and talked to his lawyer he realized he admitted guilt at the scene and is now trying to do damage control.  Don't let him.  This is a perfect example of where I think the cycling community needs to stand together for the rights of cyclists on the road.

2008-05-27 1:51 PM
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Subject: RE: car vs ped (me)

First of all... the person who doesn't want to cops called knows they are wrong and guess what he is trying so wiggle out of it.. Always always call the police..

 

what would be going on now if you had a bleed in your head(it could happen) and now all you have is this guys number and i'm sure he would be putting a spin on things..

 

anyways get the poplice in volved doctument everything. and i hope for the best for you..

 

please keep us updated

2008-05-27 2:16 PM
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Subject: RE: car vs ped (me)

I doubt he wants the bike for some nefarious legal purpose.  He probably wants to make sure that you aren't lying about the bike being unrepairable.  He thinks you are asking for enough money to buy a new bike and then getting your old bike repaired and pocketing the difference. 

IMO, assuming your injuries are minor and your only goal is to get a new bike, let him have it.  Who cares?  Just take lots and lots of pictures in case I am wrong.

2008-05-27 3:04 PM
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Subject: RE: car vs ped (me)
Hot Joe - 2008-05-27 3:16 PM

I doubt he wants the bike for some nefarious legal purpose. He probably wants to make sure that you aren't lying about the bike being unrepairable. He thinks you are asking for enough money to buy a new bike and then getting your old bike repaired and pocketing the difference.




That would be perfectly legal. Insurance does not require you to fix your car when you make a claim. You're getting compensated for the loss of value of your car, so if you choose to take that value as cash and keep it, that is a reasonable action. The insurance company will simply take note that you did not repair the car and reduce its assessed value by that much on the policy. The only reason insurance companies insist on their own shops doing repairs is to control costs and get your car back to pre-incident value with as little expense as possible. There's no law that says you have to get the car fixed, there or anywhere else.
2008-05-27 3:08 PM
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Subject: RE: car vs ped (me)
chadtower - 2008-05-27 4:04 PM

Hot Joe - 2008-05-27 3:16 PM

I doubt he wants the bike for some nefarious legal purpose. He probably wants to make sure that you aren't lying about the bike being unrepairable. He thinks you are asking for enough money to buy a new bike and then getting your old bike repaired and pocketing the difference.




That would be perfectly legal. Insurance does not require you to fix your car when you make a claim. You're getting compensated for the loss of value of your car, so if you choose to take that value as cash and keep it, that is a reasonable action. The insurance company will simply take note that you did not repair the car and reduce its assessed value by that much on the policy. The only reason insurance companies insist on their own shops doing repairs is to control costs and get your car back to pre-incident value with as little expense as possible. There's no law that says you have to get the car fixed, there or anywhere else.


Agreed if the claim is less than a total loss. But this is a total loss. When an insurance company pays out a total loss, they'll take the car.


2008-05-27 3:21 PM
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Subject: RE: car vs ped (me)
I'm really sorry about the accident and I hope you heal up fast.

Just a thought, I live near and work at a UC and the law school has a clinic where people can go and get advice for free. From law students, granted, but they're supervised by professors. Might be a more economical place to start legal activities ...

Best of luck,
Trish
2008-05-27 3:54 PM
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Subject: RE: car vs ped (me)

My .02.

1.) I had a bike get totaled on the back of a van during a rear end collision last year. The other drivers insurance bought me a new bike, totally covered. I still have the old bike, in this case the insurance co didn't want it. I use it for parts.

2.) From what I gather from the OP statement she was in the road when the car entered the intersection from a side street with a stopsign, striking her. It is unclear to me if this is a four way stop or a two way stop. 

If this is a four way stop things get murky as to who is at fault. For my next several sentences assume it was a four way stop. The OP and her bf were entering the intersection from a stopsign. The OP was behind her bf. In most states one vehicle (read:car, bike, mototcycle etc) may enter the intersection at a time. If the OP's bf entered the intersection and then a second or two later the OP enters the intersection the OP has committed a traffic infraction. This does not give the driver of the other car the right to enter the intersection, it is his responsibility to make sure the intersection is clear. BUT, if the op enters the intersection after her bf at a four way stop she has committed the first infraction, then the driver of car commits the second infraction (action:entering the intersection before it is clear, charge: failing to yeild to traffic and possibly failure to stop at a stopsign). Thus the murkiness.

Now, if this is an intersection with a two way stop and the OP has the right-of-way the driver of the car is clearly at fault for failure to yield the right-of-way. The damage on the bike and his car and your and your bf statements should be enough for the police to reconstruct the accident and assign fault, IF you can get to other driver to meet you at the police station. Good luck with that, he sounds like an @$$.

3.)Go get checked out at your doctors. Bikes can be replaced. You cannot.

Good luck and keep us posted. I hope you heal up quickly and do great at your next race.

David

PS. I reread your post. One thing I have learned about riding is, when approaching an intersection, even one where you have the right-of-way, apply the breaks slightly, keep turning your pedals and make eye contact with the driver of any vehicle who may be waiting to enter the intersection. Applying the breaks slows you (obviously), keeping the pedals going shows the other driver you intend to take your right-of-way and not stop for them (people look for visual clues- keeping the pedals going means you intend to keep moving) and making eye contact shows you that they see you.

2008-05-27 4:14 PM
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Subject: RE: car vs ped (me)

PS. I reread your post. One thing I have learned about riding is, when approaching an intersection, even one where you have the right-of-way, apply the breaks slightly, keep turning your pedals and make eye contact with the driver of any vehicle who may be waiting to enter the intersection. Applying the breaks slows you (obviously), keeping the pedals going shows the other driver you intend to take your right-of-way and not stop for them (people look for visual clues- keeping the pedals going means you intend to keep moving) and making eye contact shows you that they see you.

This is excellent advice

2008-05-27 4:23 PM
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Subject: RE: car vs ped (me)
ChrisM - 2008-05-28 9:14 AM

PS. I reread your post. One thing I have learned about riding is, when approaching an intersection, even one where you have the right-of-way, apply the breaks slightly, keep turning your pedals and make eye contact with the driver of any vehicle who may be waiting to enter the intersection. Applying the breaks slows you (obviously), keeping the pedals going shows the other driver you intend to take your right-of-way and not stop for them (people look for visual clues- keeping the pedals going means you intend to keep moving) and making eye contact shows you that they see you.

 

This is excellent advice

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