Swim breathing frequency.

Are you saying you breathe more often or less often than every three strokes?

ETA: because if you are striving to go really fast over a short distance the answer would be to not breathe at all...ideally you could swim most/all of a 50 without taking a single breath.

I realize that 50 meters (sorry I am a former USS swimmer everything is meters, yards is for the YMCA) is short but it was simply an illustrative point. 

I agree that I usually end up breathing every 2...but I am not convinced that it is really faster.  I think it is faster because I am not in perfect shape and need the extra oxygen to keep up the pace, but feel that if I was in better aerobic shape that every three would be more efficient and therefore faster because you get more pull on the strokes where you are not breathing. 

graceful_dave - 2009-01-20 2:36 PM

kromanowski - 2009-01-20 2:25 PM

graceful_dave - 2009-01-20 2:16 PM

kromanowski - 2009-01-20 2:08 PM

Are you saying you breathe more often or less often than every three strokes?

ETA: because if you are striving to go really fast over a short distance the answer would be to not breathe at all...ideally you could swim most/all of a 50 without taking a single breath.

When I swim fast, every other stroke. But looking for a little longer distance then 50 yards.

I realize that 50 meters (sorry I am a former USS swimmer everything is meters, yards is for the YMCA) is short but it was simply an illustrative point. 

I agree that I usually end up breathing every 2...but I am not convinced that it is really faster.  I think it is faster because I am not in perfect shape and need the extra oxygen to keep up the pace, but feel that if I was in better aerobic shape that every three would be more efficient and therefore faster because you get more pull on the strokes where you are not breathing. 

But what happens when you swim faster? don't you need more oxygen? It seems to me that it's a balance. The amount or oxygen required needs to equal how much is available. If you are swimming at a pace that is supported by every 3rd stroke, wouldn't it be faster then to swim at a pace that needs the oxygen available every other stroke? If I hold a pace where I can breathe every 3rd, it's around 2:05min/100yards (I do swim at the Y ) if I bump it to a 1:55 or slightly less pace, I need to breathe every other stroke. Obviously I'm not a super fast swimmer, but this has been my experience.

So I feel it is about training your body and your muscles to do more with less...so yes the easiest way to swim faster is to increase speed and therefore increase o2 consumption leading you to need to breathe more frequently, but many of the best swimmers I trained with reached a point where breathing every 2 and every 3 were essentially the same speed because they were able to keep up the pace with decreased o2 requirement, but that every three was more effecient because of not messing with their pull as often.

I am not very fast anymore either (taking a decade off will do that to you) and so therefore agree with you that at most people's fitness level breathing more frequently allows you to go a little faster.

graceful_dave - 2009-01-20 3:36 PM

kromanowski - 2009-01-20 2:25 PM

graceful_dave - 2009-01-20 2:16 PM

kromanowski - 2009-01-20 2:08 PM

Are you saying you breathe more often or less often than every three strokes?

ETA: because if you are striving to go really fast over a short distance the answer would be to not breathe at all...ideally you could swim most/all of a 50 without taking a single breath.

When I swim fast, every other stroke. But looking for a little longer distance then 50 yards.

I realize that 50 meters (sorry I am a former USS swimmer everything is meters, yards is for the YMCA) is short but it was simply an illustrative point.

I agree that I usually end up breathing every 2...but I am not convinced that it is really faster. I think it is faster because I am not in perfect shape and need the extra oxygen to keep up the pace, but feel that if I was in better aerobic shape that every three would be more efficient and therefore faster because you get more pull on the strokes where you are not breathing.

But what happens when you swim faster? don't you need more oxygen? It seems to me that it's a balance. The amount or oxygen required needs to equal how much is available. If you are swimming at a pace that is supported by every 3rd stroke, wouldn't it be faster then to swim at a pace that needs the oxygen available every other stroke? If I hold a pace where I can breathe every 3rd, it's around 2:05min/100yards (I do swim at the Y ) if I bump it to a 1:55 or slightly less pace, I need to breathe every other stroke. Obviously I'm not a super fast swimmer, but this has been my experience.

I could be way off here, but no matter how fast I swim, I still breathe every three. The faster I swim, the higher (faster) my arm turnover, so every three strokes sprinting is more frequent than every three strokes at a slower pace.
 

Make sense? 

Why would people preach every 3?

You need as much oxygen as you can get .... breath as much as you need which for a lot of pro triathlete and open water swimmers is every other stroke.

With proper technique taking a breath is a smooth thing incorporated into your body roll.  Shouldn't throw you off if you are doing it right.

when I am swimming faster my stroke count goes down, meaning my arm turnover is not as fast. When doing sets of 200 or less I usually breath every four strokes if I'm getting a good catch/pull.  when racing I"m often every 2nd stroke,  

Rick is spot on here as is the OP. a 50m or 100m race is completely anaerobic and requires no more oxygen than is in your lungs at the start of the race. Anything longer than 100m becomes aerobic and requires oxygen therefore breathing more allows for more available oxygen for the muscles.

It doesn't matter if you're on a pool or an OWS the body still requires oxygen and breathing more often supplies more oxygen. I have been breathing every stroke cycle on the left for 37 years. In all the OWS races and triathlons I've been in I have never had to breathe to my right. If I needed to I could but I haven't needed to. All that being said I coach kids to breathe every 3 strokes for balance in practice but when it comes to racing I let them do whatever feels natural.

BTW - Michael Phelps and Ian Thorpe both breathe every stroke and I hear they are pretty fast swimmers.

Another every two stroke breather here, to the right, although I can do 3 and go to the left if I need.   Actually, the urge to breathe comes from a need to expel C02, not the need to get 02, but whatever the urge is, do it.

I watched the long course swimmers last Olympics and tried to get a pattern for their breathing.  In one race, a single swimmer could go from every 3 strokes, to every two, up to even 5, all in the same race.  Couldn't gauge why or when it was changing, probably to check out the competition as much as get a breath

I am a total beginner at swimming, so I'm not questioning this, but I am utterly confused, here.  A 100m race takes 50-60 seconds (for those who are fast, not me -- it takes me 1:30 on a good day).  Sure, it isn't so hard to hold one's breath for a minute, but are you saying that you can swim the whole thing just as fast without breathing?

(One possibly related issue I am more confident of is that even when the muscles are engaged in what we normally call 'anaerobic' activity, they are still burning some oxygen.  The phrase 'completely anaerobic' is a bit misleading.  But anyway, I'm definitely interested to hear more about what you mean.)

LOL, I stand corrected. I was speaking a little more general than literally meaning "completely" anaerobic.  The point was that I think that breathing more frequently is better and that's why so many world class swimmers breath every stroke.

Sorry about the confusion.

On the subject of breathing in swimming. I recommend "light reading" Swimming Fastest by Maglischo, Human Kinetics. Also several triathlon training books cover it.

I hope everyone here watched Beijing Olympics swim meet. All distances,freestyle  swimmers, overwhelmingly were breathing every other stroke. For 50 and 100, there is a calculated tactics when to take a breath. Maglischo writes about that.

Bilateral breathing promotes stroke balance and is highly recommended by many coaches to train to allow for balanced stroke development. Beyond that it deprives one of oxygen. Training with reduced amount of oxygen leads to developing better economy as paired with good balance and solid stroke mechanics. That is where "lung busters" come into picture. Drills and sets where swimmers train to breath every 5,7,9 strokes.

In racing, it is a different story. Same coaches advocate breathing every other stroke, specificaly middle distance, 400-500m and long distance 800m, 1500m. Oxygen uptake becomes critical in delaying fatigue.It is true that some balance and stroke fluidity is lost during B2, but can be addressed in stroke work.

In my short, personal experience, I train b3 most of the time. I do include middle distance sets at b5,b7. I do have to slow down for that, no doubt. Those sets are aerobic speeds no doubt.

When it's time to time trial 1000m or race 1500m it is B2 as it is the only way for me to post good speed and control the effort. Most of the posts above are correct on the subject. B3 is not an absolute and only way. As I said rewind Olympic Games and let me know what you found.

I am no expert, no speed demon either. I just read a few books and have a son who is a swimmer.

And a good rant it is AB

Thank you for this post - the prior suggestion that oxygen deprivation makes you faster did not make any sense to me.

In ten years of swim team swimming the calculated/ideal time to take a breath, especially in a 50 was never...you put your head down, move your arms and legs as fast and effeciently as possible and breathe when you are done...in an ideal world that is...