Swim hand entry position: helping with body "roll"
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2009-02-28 4:35 PM |
Master 1963 | Subject: Swim hand entry position: helping with body "roll" Today was speed day at the pool. I have been trying to focus on improving my body roll a little bit more. I don't know if body roll is the right term but I hope it's clear enough. In any event, I was experimenting with my the entry position of my hand into the water. I felt like when I shifted my hand entry ever so slightly towards the center line of my body my rolling improved. I don't mean I was even coming crossing the center line just trying to get a bit closer to center. Is this generally regarded as a bad idea or any tips? |
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2009-02-28 4:58 PM in reply to: #1987975 |
Alpharetta, GA | Subject: RE: Swim hand entry position: helping with body "roll" I have swam competitively for a lot of years (started when I was 6) and haven't had to do a lot of "thinking" about my stroke, but I think proper roll might be better facilitated by the arm stretch after hand entry. You should be reaching like you are reaching for the wall on your last stroke in a race. It's this stretch which aids in the body roll. Just my opinion of course. |
2009-02-28 5:00 PM in reply to: #1987975 |
Master 2355 Houston, TX | Subject: RE: Swim hand entry position: helping with body "roll" It's better to enter directly in front of your shoulder, you get a better pull that way. |
2009-02-28 5:00 PM in reply to: #1987975 |
Subject: RE: Swim hand entry position: helping with body "roll" I've read your pinky and ring finger should enter the water first. |
2009-02-28 5:18 PM in reply to: #1987975 |
Champion 9600 Fountain Hills, AZ | Subject: RE: Swim hand entry position: helping with body "roll" My hand actually enters more thumb/index first and turns over as I extend on my reach. |
2009-02-28 5:26 PM in reply to: #1988076 |
Expert 2547 The Woodlands, TX | Subject: RE: Swim hand entry position: helping with body "roll" bryancd - 2009-02-28 5:18 PM My hand actually enters more thumb/index first and turns over as I extend on my reach. X2 This is what I do... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pn3FWsQhkYE
Edited by tjfry 2009-02-28 5:27 PM |
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2009-02-28 5:45 PM in reply to: #1987975 |
Master 1963 | Subject: RE: Swim hand entry position: helping with body "roll" Thanks for the reply guys, I am totally with you on hand position when entering the water. I guess what I meant was more of where do your hands enter the water relative to say your head or the center of your body Here is a VERY crappy idea of what I mean. Yellow is the centerline of the body Red is entry position at, say, shoulder width Green is the area I was experimenting with, closer if not right on the centerline |
2009-02-28 6:07 PM in reply to: #1987975 |
Veteran 203 , Washington | Subject: RE: Swim hand entry position: helping with body "roll" Be very careful getting too close to your center line...if you wind up crossing over, your shoulders will be very angry with you (I speak from experience and am now paying the price by getting to do 75% drills as workouts to sort it out...not that that's my ONLY issue! ) |
2009-02-28 7:04 PM in reply to: #1987975 |
Expert 2547 The Woodlands, TX | Subject: RE: Swim hand entry position: helping with body "roll" If you're pulling off a decent rotation then you will be on your side (plus or minus) as your finger tips hit the water, so it would make sense that your hand would enter closer rather than farther away from your centerline. I don't really know that that should be the point of focus though. Once your hand enters the water it extends fully as you rotate. IMO, that should be the focus. So where is your hand and what is your body position as the hand starts to pull? If its not fully extended and your body is not on its side then you should make some changes.
tj |
2009-03-01 5:07 PM in reply to: #1988102 |
Master 1411 Lexington, KY | Subject: RE: Swim hand entry position: helping with body "roll" tjfry - 2009-02-28 6:26 PM bryancd - 2009-02-28 5:18 PM My hand actually enters more thumb/index first and turns over as I extend on my reach. X2 Interesting. This is how I have been entering, but my masters coach recently told me I need to work on entering pinky first. |
2009-03-01 5:17 PM in reply to: #1989936 |
Alpharetta, GA | Subject: RE: Swim hand entry position: helping with body "roll" wiky - 2009-03-01 6:07 PM that is strange. I have never heard of entering pinky first. I have always been told to enter at a 45 degree angle, thumb side first.tjfry - 2009-02-28 6:26 PM bryancd - 2009-02-28 5:18 PM My hand actually enters more thumb/index first and turns over as I extend on my reach. X2 Interesting. This is how I have been entering, but my masters coach recently told me I need to work on entering pinky first.
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2009-03-01 6:41 PM in reply to: #1989949 |
Elite 3650 Laurium, MI | Subject: RE: Swim hand entry position: helping with body "roll" bschulte - 2009-03-01 6:17 PM wiky - 2009-03-01 6:07 PM that is strange. I have never heard of entering pinky first. I have always been told to enter at a 45 degree angle, thumb side first.tjfry - 2009-02-28 6:26 PM bryancd - 2009-02-28 5:18 PM My hand actually enters more thumb/index first and turns over as I extend on my reach. X2 Interesting. This is how I have been entering, but my masters coach recently told me I need to work on entering pinky first.
x3 or 4 or 5 That's how I was told, how I've been doing it and how I've witnessed just about every swimmer faster then me do it. Also, if you are entering pinky first, aren't you basically setting yourself up for a dropped elbow?
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2009-03-01 6:52 PM in reply to: #1987975 |
Extreme Veteran 495 Stamford, CT | Subject: RE: Swim hand entry position: helping with body "roll" When your hand enters the water your arm should be extended entering the water at 1 o'clock or 1 o'clock if 12 o'clock is above your head. If you are entering at 12 and rotating onto your side, you will actually be "crossing over" which tends to lead to sideways movement in the torso/hips (not wanted). For some swimmers with a drastic cross over, I actually tell them to enter the water at 10 and 2! Your arms should be extended upon entering the water and pull slightly out and down while keeping your elbow high. Not sure about the pinky thing...I suspect thinking about entering the water with your pinky first will lead to a dropped elbow (what you don't want). If you have any other questions feel free to PM me. |
2009-03-01 6:54 PM in reply to: #1990107 |
Master 1410 White Plains NY | Subject: RE: Swim hand entry position: helping with body "roll" vortmax - 2009-03-01 7:41 PM Also, if you are entering pinky first, aren't you basically setting yourself up for a dropped elbow? Thats exactly what has been explained to me by my swim coach. I have also been told that your hand should enter the water like your are putting mail through a mail slot, or if not, at least thumb side first. |
2009-03-01 9:31 PM in reply to: #1987975 |
Expert 2547 The Woodlands, TX | Subject: RE: Swim hand entry position: helping with body "roll" If someone is telling you to enter with your pinky first and they are not referring to backstroke, then you need to run!! They are making it up as they go... |
2009-03-02 9:08 AM in reply to: #1990136 |
Master 1420 Reston, VA | Subject: RE: Swim hand entry position: helping with body "roll" jellyfish - 2009-03-01 7:52 PM When your hand enters the water your arm should be extended entering the water at 1 o'clock or 1 o'clock if 12 o'clock is above your head. If you are entering at 12 and rotating onto your side, you will actually be "crossing over" which tends to lead to sideways movement in the torso/hips (not wanted). For some swimmers with a drastic cross over, I actually tell them to enter the water at 10 and 2! Your arms should be extended upon entering the water and pull slightly out and down while keeping your elbow high. Not sure about the pinky thing...I suspect thinking about entering the water with your pinky first will lead to a dropped elbow (what you don't want). If you have any other questions feel free to PM me. Good advice ^^^^^ and entering pinky first will almost always lead to a dropped elbow which you do not want. I would really question a coach on why they are having you enter pinky first and get a good explanation before I proceeded to work with him/her. |
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2009-03-02 9:12 AM in reply to: #1988409 |
Master 1963 | Subject: RE: Swim hand entry position: helping with body "roll" tjfry - 2009-02-28 8:04 PM If you're pulling off a decent rotation then you will be on your side (plus or minus) as your finger tips hit the water, so it would make sense that your hand would enter closer rather than farther away from your centerline. I don't really know that that should be the point of focus though. Once your hand enters the water it extends fully as you rotate. IMO, that should be the focus. So where is your hand and what is your body position as the hand starts to pull? If its not fully extended and your body is not on its side then you should make some changes. Thanks tjfry. This was very helpful. I guess what your saying is I should already be rotated by the time my hand hit the water so I guess I need to think some more. I have a pool workout tonite so I'll give it some thought (and to your question about my hand). It's funny how hard it is to remember even if you just swam yesterday! |
2009-03-02 9:14 AM in reply to: #1991179 |
Master 1963 | Subject: RE: Swim hand entry position: helping with body "roll" docswim24 - 2009-03-02 10:08 AM Thanks docswim and jellyfish. I am definitely not entering pinky first. Not sure how that rumor got started . I definitely go thumb/index finger side of my hand in first.jellyfish - 2009-03-01 7:52 PM When your hand enters the water your arm should be extended entering the water at 1 o'clock or 1 o'clock if 12 o'clock is above your head. If you are entering at 12 and rotating onto your side, you will actually be "crossing over" which tends to lead to sideways movement in the torso/hips (not wanted). For some swimmers with a drastic cross over, I actually tell them to enter the water at 10 and 2! Your arms should be extended upon entering the water and pull slightly out and down while keeping your elbow high. Not sure about the pinky thing...I suspect thinking about entering the water with your pinky first will lead to a dropped elbow (what you don't want). If you have any other questions feel free to PM me. Good advice ^^^^^ and entering pinky first will almost always lead to a dropped elbow which you do not want. I would really question a coach on why they are having you enter pinky first and get a good explanation before I proceeded to work with him/her. |
2009-03-02 9:24 AM in reply to: #1988076 |
Master 1853 syracuse | Subject: RE: Swim hand entry position: helping with body "roll" bryancd - 2009-02-28 6:18 PM My hand actually enters more thumb/index first and turns over as I extend on my reach.
x3... |
2009-03-02 9:24 AM in reply to: #1987975 |
Master 1411 Lexington, KY | Subject: RE: Swim hand entry position: helping with body "roll" Thanks for the advice - I'd like to follow-up. (Hope this is OK with the OP.) The masters coach that suggested this to me is really well respected at the university pool I swim at. And each time I swim she points out that I'm still not entering pinky first. (It feels awkward, so it's been hard for me to do it.) The reason she gave me for needing to switch to pinky-first entry is that I may injure my shoulders by entering thumb-first. (Context: I've only been swimming 3.5 months, with no swimming background, and have been swimming ~daily.) Is this something I should be worried about? Currently, I have no shoulder pain. Knock wood. |
2009-03-02 9:29 AM in reply to: #1987975 |
Extreme Veteran 384 Chatham. Ontario | Subject: RE: Swim hand entry position: helping with body "roll" I've also been told to enter pinky first. After reading this post I think that this was bad advice. It definetely makes more sence to enter with the thumb first. Good reading. |
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2009-03-02 9:51 AM in reply to: #1991188 |
Expert 2547 The Woodlands, TX | Subject: RE: Swim hand entry position: helping with body "roll" merlin2375 - 2009-03-02 9:12 AM tjfry - 2009-02-28 8:04 PM If you're pulling off a decent rotation then you will be on your side (plus or minus) as your finger tips hit the water, so it would make sense that your hand would enter closer rather than farther away from your centerline. I don't really know that that should be the point of focus though. Once your hand enters the water it extends fully as you rotate. IMO, that should be the focus. So where is your hand and what is your body position as the hand starts to pull? If its not fully extended and your body is not on its side then you should make some changes. Thanks tjfry. This was very helpful. I guess what your saying is I should already be rotated by the time my hand hit the water so I guess I need to think some more. I have a pool workout tonite so I'll give it some thought (and to your question about my hand). It's funny how hard it is to remember even if you just swam yesterday! Just to make sure we're on the same page, when your finger tips enter the water, you will be on one side(side with the hand hitting the water is up in the air). As your hand extends out in front of you, you rotate to the other side (arm that's about to pull is on the bottom). Hope I'm making sense. |
2009-03-02 11:09 AM in reply to: #1990600 |
Champion 8540 the colony texas | Subject: RE: Swim hand entry position: helping with body "roll" tjfry - 2009-03-01 9:31 PM If someone is telling you to enter with your pinky first and they are not referring to backstroke, then you need to run!! They are making it up as they go... hard to run in the pool I've been told and watch many people that have a hand entry more flat or slightly with the thumb first, usually they tell people to concentrate to think pinky first when the hand is so thumb first it's like making the thumbs down sign... (or they are over mid line) by telling them pinky first as an exaggeration they might get a flatter hand entry,,, usually the swim coach will them that it's an over exaggeration to get them flatter and watch to ensure they don't' over compensate though... It really depends on what the coach is actually seeing and how you react to their feedback when they tell people things,, some people listen, others need to be told that over exaggeration to get them to do it |
2009-03-02 12:00 PM in reply to: #1987975 |
Master 1411 Lexington, KY | Subject: RE: Swim hand entry position: helping with body "roll" That's probably it. |
2009-03-02 1:09 PM in reply to: #1987975 |
Expert 675 Woodridge, IL | Subject: RE: Swim hand entry position: helping with body "roll" I was told specifically after having my stroke evaluated by my tri coach that it is index finger first. |
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