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2009-03-25 12:34 PM

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Subject: breaking 20' in a 5k

one of my goals this season is to break 20' in a 5 k.

that race is April 4th.

I'm not sure if it is realistic for me to expect. I've done NO hard effort runs all year. Hardest run has been temp runs and I've done no running above zone 4 yet.

past few tempo runs were 7' to 7:30 and were from anywhere from 20-30 minutes in length. Never felt tired after and in each case I continued to run in zone 2, around 8:30 pace, for another 20-30 minutes. Never broke into zone 4 on those runs. previous 5 k best is around a 7:04 pace, which was really 3.5 miles long and that was over about 9 months ago with only 6 months of running training.

to break 20', I need to hope for good weather, no wind and a pace of around 6:25. I also do not know the course at all, though I e-mailed the director and she said "fairly flat"

I'm going into it with the idea of doing it. run out hard and fast and hold onto it as long as I can. not even going to look at my pace watch, I'll tape it over for later analysis. just gonna run like I'm being chased by the cops for the first 2.5 miles or so, than I'm gonna run like its life or death....

If I dont do it, I know I can come close....my only fear is going out too hard and "hurting myself" and need time to recover and messing up my tri season.

I dont think that is possible in a 5 k, or am I wrong? to me, its only 3 miles, I dont think I could do any damage that would require 1-2 weeks recovery...

I did a 1/2 marathon last year and started out WAY too fast took me 2 weeks to recover from it....

any thoughts or words of encouragement are appreciated.



2009-03-25 12:41 PM
in reply to: #2039366

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Subject: RE: breaking 20' in a 5k

Well, yes, you can hurt yourself.  I don't think it's likely unless you have underlying issues going into the race, though.  But I'd say that's the case regardless of the distance.

Recovery time from a hard effort has as much or more to do with your overall fitness as it does the level and length of the effort.

2009-03-25 12:43 PM
in reply to: #2039366

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Subject: RE: breaking 20' in a 5k

Speaking solely for myself, I would say that I could never overestimate the potential I have for injuring myself.

However, if you really want to do it, I don't think you should be thinking about 'will I get injured?'.  It sounds like full commitment will be required, and nagging doubts do not (IMHO) sit well with 'full commitment'.

2009-03-25 12:43 PM
in reply to: #2039366

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Subject: RE: breaking 20' in a 5k
You CAN do it.

If most of your runs are in the 7:XX zone, you should definitely be able to pound out a sub 20 5K. 6:25 avg is just a few more "pushes" in effort.

Don't worry about the weather either, you can do it rain or shine. My last 10K was in the pouring freezing rain, and my 5K split was 19:13, so if I was pushing I could been in the 18's for the 5K. Don't let the outside weather or anything else for that matter effect you. Just focus, and hammer out what needs to be done. If you feel like you are about to puke, or want to stop running a mile into the run, you are doing it right.

GOOD LUCK!!!
2009-03-25 12:46 PM
in reply to: #2039383

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Subject: RE: breaking 20' in a 5k
Scout7 - 2009-03-25 1:41 PM

Well, yes, you can hurt yourself.  I don't think it's likely unless you have underlying issues going into the race, though.  But I'd say that's the case regardless of the distance.

Recovery time from a hard effort has as much or more to do with your overall fitness as it does the level and length of the effort.

Based on what little informatin I listed, you think I can do it?

2009-03-25 12:49 PM
in reply to: #2039366

Subject: RE: breaking 20' in a 5k

Here's a question - if it's your goal for the season, why does it have to happen so early in the season? Just curious. Why don't you work on it a bit more and find another 5K to run? They're a dime a dozen around here, anyway. The season lasts awhile

You totally don't have to listen to me, seeing as how I will probably never break 20 minutes in a 5K! BUt just a friendly thought



2009-03-25 12:54 PM
in reply to: #2039398

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Subject: RE: breaking 20' in a 5k
cusetri - 2009-03-25 1:46 PM

Based on what little informatin I listed, you think I can do it?

Do I think you can go sub 20?  Yeah, I think there's a good change.

But, I think you need to let it happen.  Don't worry too much about how fast you're running in training.  Go into your races knowing what you want to happen, and let your body do the rest.

2009-03-25 12:54 PM
in reply to: #2039416

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Subject: RE: breaking 20' in a 5k

great question--

If I don't do it april 4th, I'll learn a lot and be able to try again in a few months.....If I wait until aug/sept, I'll only have a couple months to apply what I learn and find another race.

2009-03-25 12:58 PM
in reply to: #2039428

Subject: RE: breaking 20' in a 5k
cusetri - 2009-03-25 1:54 PM

great question--

If I don't do it april 4th, I'll learn a lot and be able to try again in a few months.....If I wait until aug/sept, I'll only have a couple months to apply what I learn and find another race.

Then pick one in late May or June some time Besides "running season" never really ends - there's stuff to do all year round, unlike triathlons. So technically, you've got until December 31st

2009-03-25 1:06 PM
in reply to: #2039443

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Subject: RE: breaking 20' in a 5k
wurkit_gurl - 2009-03-25 1:58 PM
cusetri - 2009-03-25 1:54 PM

great question--

If I don't do it april 4th, I'll learn a lot and be able to try again in a few months.....If I wait until aug/sept, I'll only have a couple months to apply what I learn and find another race.

Then pick one in late May or June some time Besides "running season" never really ends - there's stuff to do all year round, unlike triathlons. So technically, you've got until December 31st

alright, you got me.....I really didnt think about it....I'm just ready to go for it, so I picked the soonest race....I feel great right now and want to tackle one of my goals.  I just want to race.

Now, after registering, I'm second guessing my ability to do it, so I'm looking for some people to pump me up....

I know when I reach the start line, I'll be ready.  I just need to run and forget about the time...(great advice, Scout)

2009-03-25 1:07 PM
in reply to: #2039366

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Subject: RE: breaking 20' in a 5k

Personally, I see no reason not to go for it.  More opportunities to make adjustments as necessary.  Plus, experience is experience.

MTA: Plus, tri season could cut in on race opportunities.



Edited by Scout7 2009-03-25 1:09 PM


2009-03-25 1:07 PM
in reply to: #2039466

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Subject: RE: breaking 20' in a 5k
Why NOT race in April? It will at least be practice at racing and will give you an idea of where you stand and what you need to work on.


Edited by TheSchwamm 2009-03-25 1:08 PM
2009-03-25 1:11 PM
in reply to: #2039366

Subject: RE: breaking 20' in a 5k
I honestly don't care when he races it. Was just a question. To be honest, I don't really see the harm, certainly, in trying to run an all-out 5K. You will probably boot at the end, but other than that, no harm done. I just wondered why you might not want to wait a little, get in a bit more speedwork, since you felt like you'd been slacking a bit and then go for it. That's all
2009-03-25 1:19 PM
in reply to: #2039366

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Subject: RE: breaking 20' in a 5k

thank you for all the input....

also, never did I say I was slacking but I can easily understand how it was interpreted as that...I said I've done no zone 4/sub-threshold runs.  this is because my training does not call for them for another 2 weeks....

I have the base to hold a sub threshold effort for 15-20 minutes, which will be lower than 7:00/mile as my current tempo run is around there, but how low I do not know.....

2009-03-25 1:21 PM
in reply to: #2039366

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Subject: RE: breaking 20' in a 5k
I wouldn't worry too much about trashing yourself for the tri season. You maybe shot for a couple days or sore for a little longer, but nothing you mentioned gives cause for concern. I think, what is going to be that different if your run a 19:59 vs running a 20:30 or 21:00?

As for if you can break 20:00. If you can run about 3 miles somewhat comfortably at 7 minutes a mile, then you should be able to take off a good 30 seconds on race day. 40 seconds per mile is a lot to take off a PR, but that was set months ago with less training. I don't think it is an unrealistic goal.

Everyone is different, but I would go with a different plan (the one that didn't work out so well with the 1/2) on race day Get in a nice warm-up. Run your first mile a little slower than race pace. Get on pace in mile 2. Hammer it home the last 1.1. For me it is fun to feel strong and fast the last mile. Quickly eating up yardage, passing other runners, and having a good kick feels alot better than trying to just make through. Running negative splits is a pretty successful strategy as well.
2009-03-25 1:23 PM
in reply to: #2039366

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Subject: RE: breaking 20' in a 5k

can you hurt yourself? definitely. I will greately depend on the training you've done over tha past months and how adapted are your muscles/soft tissue, etc. Still if you have been doing consistent training the chances are smaller. make sure the warm up thoroughly before the race though to dimish the chances even more and cool down post race.

Can you do it? who knows, but you can only try no? the best thing is that you indeed do it, the worst is that you won't but you'll have a baseline of your current fitness level to work and build upon.

Go out there, give it all and have fun. Let us know how it goes!



2009-03-25 1:30 PM
in reply to: #2039505

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Subject: RE: breaking 20' in a 5k
cusetri - 2009-03-25 2:19 PM

thank you for all the input....

also, never did I say I was slacking but I can easily understand how it was interpreted as that...I said I've done no zone 4/sub-threshold runs.  this is because my training does not call for them for another 2 weeks....

I have the base to hold a sub threshold effort for 15-20 minutes, which will be lower than 7:00/mile as my current tempo run is around there, but how low I do not know.....

 

I say you can do it.. maybe not this time, but you could get it this season. 

2009-03-25 1:33 PM
in reply to: #2039366

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Subject: RE: breaking 20' in a 5k

Twice last year (Jan & Feb) I tried to to go sub 20.   My first attempt was a 20m 59s effort than a 20m 49s finish.  Hopefully you'll have better luck than me!  I seem to always lose something that 3rd mile.  Hopefully with some track work and losing some weight I'll do it this year.   Good luck  

As long as you maintain your form, you (hopefully) won't get injured.  5k's are so damn painful

 

 

2009-03-25 2:06 PM
in reply to: #2039366

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Subject: RE: breaking 20' in a 5k

[hijack]

When did the apostrophe become acceptable to indicate minutes? For me it has always meant feet and " mean inches as in 6'6" for six feet six inches.

I've seen it used on this site several times and at first I was confused by it. I wondered why someone was swimming for 60 feet

[/hijack]

2009-03-25 2:07 PM
in reply to: #2039366

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Subject: RE: breaking 20' in a 5k

I have a similiar goal for the season.  My PB is 20:30 which I hope to have as a distant memory in a few months.  I think you can do it this season, but you'll be hard pressed to do it next week.  It just seems, judging by your tempo runs, that you'll be in the 21:00ish range.  But, like you said in your OP if you have all the stars align you might be able to do it.  Good luck!

But - why tape over the pace watch?  If it were me I'd try to pace it evenly @ 3:55/km and make sure I was always on pace.

2009-03-25 2:08 PM
in reply to: #2039639

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Subject: RE: breaking 20' in a 5k
mrbbrad - 2009-03-25 2:06 PM

[hijack]

When did the apostrophe become acceptable to indicate minutes? For me it has always meant feet and " mean inches as in 6'6" for six feet six inches.

I've seen it used on this site several times and at first I was confused by it. I wondered why someone was swimming for 60 feet

[/hijack]


Perhaps it is crossover from the notation related to degrees, minutes, and seconds in angular measurements.



2009-03-25 2:14 PM
in reply to: #2039646

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Subject: RE: breaking 20' in a 5k
feldon - 2009-03-25 3:07 PM

I have a similiar goal for the season.  My PB is 20:30 which I hope to have as a distant memory in a few months.  I think you can do it this season, but you'll be hard pressed to do it next week.  It just seems, judging by your tempo runs, that you'll be in the 21:00ish range.  But, like you said in your OP if you have all the stars align you might be able to do it.  Good luck!

But - why tape over the pace watch?  If it were me I'd try to pace it evenly @ 3:55/km and make sure I was always on pace.

becasue now you are racing a pace/time, not a race.

If I go out and give it my all, my pace should not matter....

in other words, a pace watch will have me going too fast or too slow....running based on what my body tells me should yeild the best result.

after mile 1, I should be questioning why I am out here, mile 2 I should be ready to throw up, mile 3 I should be ready to die....

2009-03-25 2:23 PM
in reply to: #2039646

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Subject: RE: breaking 20' in a 5k
feldon - 2009-03-25 3:07 PM

But - why tape over the pace watch?  If it were me I'd try to pace it evenly @ 3:55/km and make sure I was always on pace.

Different strokes, I suppose.

I never really raced by pace.  If I have a time goal, I know about what the splits should be, but I never let that dictate how I actually run.  Sometimes I'm faster, sometimes I'm slower.

2009-03-25 2:25 PM
in reply to: #2039647

Subject: RE: breaking 20' in a 5k
TheSchwamm - 2009-03-25 3:08 PM
mrbbrad - 2009-03-25 2:06 PM

[hijack]

When did the apostrophe become acceptable to indicate minutes? For me it has always meant feet and " mean inches as in 6'6" for six feet six inches.

I've seen it used on this site several times and at first I was confused by it. I wondered why someone was swimming for 60 feet

[/hijack]

Perhaps it is crossover from the notation related to degrees, minutes, and seconds in angular measurements.

Beats me, but all the workouts I see are always in ' (minutes) and " (seconds). The context will generally tell you if you're dealing with distance or time. I don't find it that confusing - and I used to work at an architectural firm where those notations mean feet and inches.

2009-03-25 2:25 PM
in reply to: #2039366

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Subject: RE: breaking 20' in a 5k

I went for a sub-20 5K at Thanksgiving. I had my Garmin set to beep at me if my pace was above 6:28. I even had it set to beep at me if my pace was too fast, something like 6:15. I did some intervals on the treadmill at goal pace with a mile recovery in between. That seemed to help a lot. I ended up with a 19:37.

Of course, as soon as I broke 20, I did another 5K two weeks later and broke 19 without any pace alarms or anything.

I think sub-20 (or sub-whatever) is as much mental as physical. You have to visualize it happening the first time. But then once you've done it, it's way easier to duplicate. Kind of like when Roger Bannister finally ran a sub-4 minute mile. Up to that point nobody had, but after that lots of folks did it.

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