breaking 20' in a 5k (Page 2)

I ran about 19:00 for a 5k once.  Only problem was that the race was 10k.  That fourth mile was really painful. 

My advice is to know your pace really well.  Spend some time on the track so you really know what 6:25 feels like.  If you go out fast and try to hold on, it is going to be unpleasant.  Try to run each mile at the goal average, then kick to catch somebody on the last half mile.  You will probably puke but that's ok after the finish.

On recovery time, you won't even notice a 5k race if you mostly training for longer distances.

On potential for injury, listen to your feet.  If you can hear them, that is bad.  Keep the stride the normal length and run light on your feet.  Don't try to extend your stride or run so hard that your form breaks down.

Can you do 20?  Doesn't matter.  It is a race and the objective is to go as fast as you can.  You won't know much about pacing until you have done about 10 5k's.  You can race 5k's every week or so til you master the distance and really gauge your race pace.

TW

Yeah, the Garmin pace thing can go both ways. Last 5K I ran I had it beep me at mile 1. My pace felt perfectly comfortable at mile 1 (was going for negative splits) and when the watch beeped at mile 1 I was at 6:20 pace. That set my race up very nicely and I thought "woohoo, I can do this...). Finished in 19 mins even but the course was actually 3 miles, not 3.1. Anyway, it can also cause unnecessary stress (e.g., "making" you start faster than you need to, or can slow you down by setting a predetermined pace. Personally I like the in-race feedback but can certainly see why you might not want that.

My advice: warm up well...and do some strides in warmup to get you ready for the pace. And run hard. If you get a sub 20, great. If you get 20:01, don't be disappointed- its a great line in the sand to try and beat next time.

I would recommend keeping time as for me I have done 20:01 in my last Two 5ks~!! Both times I wasn't timing and thought I had already 'missed" breaking twenty, so looking back I felt like I could have made up that couple of secs if I had known how close I was!

 As for recovery, I was doing 5ks all fall (had just started running) and always felt fine/back to normal in a couple of days. Now though I have recently done a marathon and am still "recovering" 3.5 weeks later.

 So yea, bottom line I would recommend timing. And two,,, recovery shouldn't be bad if you have been running a decent amount

Go for it. Sounds like you've got a great shot at it. What is there to lose?

BTW - if you don't get there on the next attempt, but would likely to make a serious attempt at it, the guaranteed method given your current legspeed is to run more miles in training. For running, lots of base miles, and one speed session a week works wonders.

My 5k PR while training about 35mpw, and 1-2 hard speedwork sessions each week, specifically aimed to run a fast 5k: 20:30. (This PR stood for the first 30 years of my life.)

My 5k PR while ignoring any 5k-specific speedwork, and training exclusively for the marathon (this still included a hard speed session once per week, just longer intervals) - 18:30 at age 31. I completely skipped over the 19:xx time bracket (!) This took me an 18 week training schedule that ramped up to 70miles per week maximum (Pfitzinger's Advanced Marathoning).

Not saying you have to run this much, but volume is king on running.

X 2.  Last 5k I did in August, my first mile was 6:15 (perfect) problem was I missed the lap button and could not do the math in my head to figure out what my added time should been at 2 miles.  Ended up with a 20:02 and boy was I pissed because I know I had two more seconds in me but I thought I had it.

I will be going for a sub 20 in May after my half mary in April and this time I am confident I can pull it off (will have about 700 more miles under my legs this time around).

Try doing intervals with someone who is just a little faster than you.  Here is a video of me doing just that.

Sub 20 was a goal for me for several years (as was sub 40 10k), and I always seemed to come up just a bit short. 20:10, 20:08, close but no cigar. I started doing forced pace intervals on the treadmill once a week about 2 years ago to increase my foot turn over. I broke 20' on Thanksgiving posting a 19:50. 6 weeks later on very little training I hit 19:35 and then at a 10 k two weeks ago my 5k split was 19:12 ( I was just in front of Coldfire ), and ended up with a 39:49 10k.  Did I mention that I am 37 and have been running for years? I am convinced that the treadmill intervals are the biggest part of my improvement.

Go out and run just under the puke line and see where you fall, 5k's are a dime a dozen so I am sure there are a ton around your area to make an attempt at later on in the season.

I don't know. For me if I was going to push for that 20 min mark I would definitely pace it.  I found if I go out fast and die I die hard and lose a lot of (relative) time in a shorter distance like the 5K.  Your tempo and zone 2 paces aren't too far off from mine last year and I ran a 19 in the fall. If you have a friend or someone in the field you know of that consistently runs around a 20 maybe try tagging on to them..that's what helped me finally get below 18.

I'd say your only issue may be the lack of any zone 4-5, dare i say, anaerobic work.  Since your race isn't until next weekend I'd try to get in at least one short track workout this weekend, nothing crazy as to not injure yourself though.  maybe something like a 4 x 400 at 10k-15k pace or so just to get the legs introduced the the higher turnover.

again this is what I would do so take it with a grain of salt...i'm no expert.

My first year back into running after a 15 year hiatus I thought I would easily be under 20.  I was running 16's in the late 80's.

I was WRONG.  My first several attempts in 2004/5 were all out effort to stay under 21.

In  '05 I changed 2 things - my mileage base and my weight (by increasing my mileage and maintaining the same diet).  I ran my first marathon in 05.  In '06 I set out to break 20 and wound up running and 18:17 -all of my races are now in the low 18's.

Carrying and extra 15-20 pounds in a race is a crushing blow.  I don't know if you have that issue but if so - change it.

Now in order to run PRs I need to keep the mileage base AND do speed work.

Yes, go for it.  And then report back to this thread and let us know how you did.  As well as your final plan and how you executed that plan.

My 5k PR is 19'58" set a couple years ago. I didn't go into it wanting to break 20 minutes, I just wanted to see how fast I could run a 5k. I did have a goal that year of doing a 5k in under 20m 30s, though that wasn't the goal that day

Here were the keys for me:

• I didn't use a GPS or HR monitor, which is unusual for me. 
• I was willing to blow up. If I did, I learned how hard was too hard.
• I was willing to suffer. I didn't quite lose my will to live by mile 3, but it was close. 
• I had been training mostly in the 8-10 min/mile range in the months leading up to that race.
• I did speed work about once a week, including some mile repeats. Those were key, I believe.
  

So in my experience, here's how you set a 5k PR: be willing to suffer, be willing to blow up, have a good base with some speedwork and go in wanting to find out just how hard you really can run for 3.1 miles.

Did some speed work today, just got back...:

400 warm up

800 @ 6:07/mile pace

400 recovery

800 @ 6:09/mile

400 @ recovery

800 @ 6:15/mile

400 @ recovery

800 @ 6:15/mile

400 @ recovery

800 @ 6:16/mile

400 @ recovery

800 @ 6:17/mile

this gives me some major confidence going into Saturday.  I was feeling real good, and never go to "suck it up" mode.  My HRM totally crapped out, saying 244 BPM, which wasn't even close as I manually did it and I was around 180 when it said 244.....

actually, I jumped rope for 5 minutes, stretched, than jogged 400.....

is that better?  I've never done speed work like this before, what is a better warm up?

thanks!

While I understand that you wanted to do some speedwork before your 5k, you want to make sure that you are not doing a workout just to do a speed workout.

Overall, some specific concerns to consider:

• You need a longer warmup
• I would suspect that for the first time, you did too many repeats (this shows up in the pace getting slower throughout)
• Your pace would indicate that these were probably VO2max intervals which should be no more than 8-10% of your weekly running volume
• This is really too close to your race to make any difference besides giving you a feeling of what running close to race pace feels like.

Best of luck with your 5k attempt, you are probably close to being able to go under 20'.

Shane

I'll also tell myself this: "You can do ANYTHING for one mile..."