Cramps

Yup, bike and run more.

I'm sure the electrolytes will help as well but run and bike more will be a greater bang for the buck.

Fixed it for you ..........

No. You stated your opinion using my post. I wrote what I believe to be true and what works for me. The OP might very well benefit from electrolyte supplements.

If you insist on everyone requiring the same nutrients we should all take insulin because diabetics do. In the real world, different people often require different things. This is one that does no real harm to at least try and see if that helps but eliminating it as a possibility without trying is silly at best.

Meh......bike more , run more...AND take some salt tabs.........

I cramped up towards the end of my half mary on Sunday (I run much BTW) and was wishing out loud that I had some salt tabs. This guy ran past me and asked me if I wanted to just lick his face........eeeeewwwwww.......truth be told it did make me giggle though! 

x2 on the run/bike more + try electrolytes. NUUN or Elixer might help.

I certainly don't insist on everyone using the same nutritional approach.  That is just asinine to put that out there.

But this IS fact:

There is NO concrete link between exercise induced cramping and electrolyte imbalance.  There is only conjecture and mixed "opinions" from highly debatable studies.  I can't understand why people insist otherwise.  Oh right, because a whole industry has been built around it (and fund the studies to get the results they want).  God forbid they would be WRONG.

Now, when the OP goes hard in a race or is undertrained for the conditions and gobbles down 5 pounds of salt because people who don't get it say that they have an electrolyte imbalance and STILL has cramps, then what????

And please explain why people in SPRINT races get cramps on the run when there is no way in hell that in an hour of exercise they have fully depleted their "electrolyte reserves."

Try whatever you want, it is your dollar.  This "debate" is tiresome and is right up there with cadence, foot strike and strength training.

I had some GU Chomps in my trans bag.  Those have sodium and potassium.  Think I'll make sure I do some chomp'n at my next race.  But I'll definitely increase the bricks as well.  

You don't need more bricks.  Bricks are another thing that does little for you in many people's opinions (other than increasing your volume and giving you potentially a lower quality run workout).

What people are suggesting (myself included) is simply more cycling and more running.  And pace within yourself on the bike.  If you leave everything out on the course on the bike, then you are setting yourself up for damage on the run.  Especially for newer athletes it is hard to learn pacing.  Top that off with the excitement of racing and people passing and next thing you know, even though you felt great during the earlier part of the race it suddenly catches up to you.

To summarize: Train more, slow down some in the race, relax and enjoy!

To be honest, in this thread, I was just hoping to get input from people in regard to what works for them.  I get a little cynical when people start talking about science and "evidence."  Sometimes it takes science a while to verify the things common folk have known about for centuries.  I have no problem with science per se, but I'm not going to simply rule something out until that confirming study comes out.  

hmmm.  interesting, because bricks were the one thing I did different training for my second tri.  I knocked 24 minutes off my previous time, 10 of the run.  Now I find out there's a whole movement out there saying "bricks bad!"  I don't know what to think anymore.  

Welcome to BT!

No one is saying bricks = bad.  They are saying that bricks are not necessary.  That is a whole different subject that has been in many other threads.  And I would venture that it was not the bricks that made you perform better, it was the increased training.

Getting better at endurance sports is very simple and too often people try to make more out of it then there actually is.

Run lots.

Ride lots.

Swim lots (with proper technique).

Lather, rinse, repeat.

As long as you properly build up your distances and volume with proper rest and eating well, you will get faster.  It takes YEARS to peak in endurance sports.  The people who are still doing it after 5 or 10 years are usually the ones who did not try to rush it all in a year or two and had patience.

Try whatever you want, it is your dollar.  This "debate" is tiresome and is right up there with cadence, foot strike and strength training.


--- and calcium causing cancer.... :-)!

Sheesh, I'll say.  You ask for some input and a war starts.  Of all the hills to die on....... bricks and potassium.   

A-friggin'-MEN!

Never heard the calcium causing cancer one though.

This seems to be a hotly debated topic I have seen come up more than a few times. One thing is for sure, bike and run more.  As for electrolyte supplement, I think this is different for everyone. I have been reading up on this and I find the nutrition aspect of this stuff to be one of the best and most interesting part of tri training and racing. Very interesting stuff.  Thinking back to your race did you push too hard? For sure everything I have read states that fitness is the key.  Also try different things in training, see what works and what doesn't.  Good luck!

Training - bike more, run more, swim more (assuming proper form)

interesting that you state there is no link between electrolyte imbalance and cramping when a link you posted in a different thread showed a statistically significant link between people with lower sodium concentrations in their blood and cramping. 

Yeah and the Mayo Clinic is apparently highly debatable too. I'm tired of there only being one person in this whole discussion that demands there is only one right answer. Everyone else, including the other coaches, the nutrition sellers and other athletes all say to try the different ways and see which works best for you. If you don't need them, you don't need them. If you do, they can help.

No one else seems to say that there is an either/or solution with nutrition versus training, everyone else says both are the answer.


Heat cramps: First aid
By Mayo Clinic staff

Heat cramps are painful, involuntary muscle spasms that usually occur during heavy exercise in hot environments. The spasms may be more intense and more prolonged than typical nighttime leg cramps. Inadequate fluid intake often contributes to heat cramps.

Muscles most often affected include those of your calves, arms, abdominal wall and back, although heat cramps may involve any muscle group involved in exercise.

If you suspect heat cramps:

* Rest briefly and cool down
* Drink clear juice or an electrolyte-containing sports drink
* Practice gentle, range-of-motion stretching and gentle massage of the affected muscle group
* Call your doctor if your cramps don't go away in one hour

________________________________

The CDC is horribly controversial, of course. Plus they obviously want to sell you something. What, I'm not sure because they don't sell anything:
http://www.bt.cdc.gov/disasters/extremeheat/heat_guide.asp
Replace Salt and Minerals

Heavy sweating removes salt and minerals from the body. These are necessary for your body and must be replaced. If you must exercise, drink two to four glasses of cool, non-alcoholic fluids each hour. A sports beverage can replace the salt and minerals you lose in sweat. However, if you are on a low-salt diet, talk with your doctor before drinking a sports beverage or taking salt tablets.

I used to cramp in EVERY single race I did. Whether I went fast, slow or medium, I cramped. I found out, after visitng MANY different dr's that I am naturally sodium deficient. For me, scientifically proven or not, I need extra electrolytes when I run. Originally I upped my salt intake and took salt tabs on the run. I didn't like the effect it had on my tummy. So I switched to Hammer edurolytes and gaterade endurance. I sweat ALOT, like a 300 lb man, for real. So I need that extra umph to keep from cramping. I can say without a doubt that as long as I take my pills and sip my GE, I don't cramp, fast or slow

I cramped last year BIG TIME in a tough sprint race. I basically blew out my quads on a very hilly bike course, and it killed me on the run. At one point, I could barely move my legs. Eventually I worked it out and finished the run painfully.

At first I thought that it was an electrolyte thing, but quickly ruled that out as (a) it was only a sprint, (b) it wasnt that hot, and (c) I had taken in plenty of fuel/electrolytes/fluid on the bike. It was training and pacing on the bike. I trained more this year, worked on hills a lot more, increased run volumes, and raced a better plan. This year...and as a result, I knocked minutes off my run and bike times and had no cramping.

As stated above many times, Most likely its training. Doubtful its "heat cramps". If it happened at mile 20 of an IM in high heat...I would say its more debatable...but my money goes to training.

Not really in training, but the actual race had some big-o hills and downhills both on the bike and run.  It was definitely steeper than my training routes.  

The bike portion was more hilly that my training.  I was definitely feeling it in my legs.  The part of my quads that cramped was about 3" area toward the inner part about an inch or two above my knee but toward the inner part of the leg.  I'm thinking that's where the power comes from on the bike.   

I'm going to seriously look into this.  I have several health issue, one is digestion and weak adrenals.  I've had is suggested to me by health practitioners that good salt would help me.