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2009-06-11 12:09 PM
in reply to: #2209890


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Subject: RE: Cramps
JohnAgs3 - 2009-06-11 7:10 AM I cramped last year BIG TIME in a tough sprint race. I basically blew out my quads on a very hilly bike course, and it killed me on the run. At one point, I could barely move my legs. Eventually I worked it out and finished the run painfully. At first I thought that it was an electrolyte thing, but quickly ruled that out as (a) it was only a sprint, (b) it wasnt that hot, and (c) I had taken in plenty of fuel/electrolytes/fluid on the bike. It was training and pacing on the bike. I trained more this year, worked on hills a lot more, increased run volumes, and raced a better plan. This year...and as a result, I knocked minutes off my run and bike times and had no cramping. As stated above many times, Most likely its training. Doubtful its "heat cramps". If it happened at mile 20 of an IM in high heat...I would say its more debatable...but my money goes to training.


Yep, this is almost exactly what happened to me.  For sure, the course was much more hilly than my training route.  I did train hills, but it was still much more rigorous and my legs were bloated to the max on the bike.   I'll be hitting the hills major when I get back into it.  

Edited by Calminian 2009-06-11 12:11 PM


2009-06-11 1:04 PM
in reply to: #2209617

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Subject: RE: Cramps
DanielG - 2009-06-11 10:02 AM

Heat cramps: First aid By Mayo Clinic


There is a difference between heat cramps (a stage of heat illness) and exercise induced cramps and while electrolytes may be prescribed as a first aid measure for heat cramps that doesn't mean that exercise induced cramps would respond to electrolytes (or even that heat cramps will).

Ultimately, provided you are taking in a normal level of dietary salt and refueling during exercise with sports drink and/or gels (both of which contain salt), you are highly unlikely to require additional salt unless you have some type of medical condition.

The problem is that many people are looking for the easy answer (salt caps) when in reality their issue was that they tried to race/train too hard for their current level of fitness.

Shane
2009-06-11 1:57 PM
in reply to: #2210414

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Subject: RE: Cramps
Calminian - 2009-06-11 12:03 PM

Ringo311 - 2009-06-11 4:54 AM

Are you running downhill alot during your runs? Stay away from them because they beat up your quads.....



Not really in training, but the actual race had some big-o hills and downhills both on the bike and run.  It was definitely steeper than my training routes.  


I am will to bet with 99.9% certainty that all the downhill running on tired (bike) legs did the damage.

I just ran a marry (steamboat) which drops a good 1000+ feet, and even with hill training (including a downhill 20 miler), it still destroyed my quads.

I will disagree with avoiding downhill running though...if you plan on racing downhill, you have to do some training downhill. It does increase the recovery time for the run, so you don't want to do it all of the time, but it does help keep you from blowing up on downhill races.
2009-06-11 2:23 PM
in reply to: #2210869

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Subject: RE: Cramps
gsmacleod - 2009-06-11 2:04 PM
DanielG - 2009-06-11 10:02 AM

Heat cramps: First aid By Mayo Clinic


There is a difference between heat cramps (a stage of heat illness) and exercise induced cramps and while electrolytes may be prescribed as a first aid measure for heat cramps that doesn't mean that exercise induced cramps would respond to electrolytes (or even that heat cramps will).

Ultimately, provided you are taking in a normal level of dietary salt and refueling during exercise with sports drink and/or gels (both of which contain salt), you are highly unlikely to require additional salt unless you have some type of medical condition.

The problem is that many people are looking for the easy answer (salt caps) when in reality their issue was that they tried to race/train too hard for their current level of fitness.

Shane
Thank you. Saved me some typing.And to the person who was referencing the Science of Sport link?Ummmm, go read it again. The people who cramped had generally the same or HIGHER concentrations of electrolytes in their bloodstream than the ones who didn't.As I said before, it is your dollar. I'm just suggesting a way to save it AND get faster (i.e. train more).
2009-06-11 2:25 PM
in reply to: #2208806

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Subject: RE: Cramps
Damn Treo ...... makes my formatting go to pot ......
2009-06-11 2:25 PM
in reply to: #2211108


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Subject: RE: Cramps
VO2Matt - 2009-06-11 11:57 AM
Calminian - 2009-06-11 12:03 PM
Ringo311 - 2009-06-11 4:54 AM

Are you running downhill alot during your runs? Stay away from them because they beat up your quads.....



Not really in training, but the actual race had some big-o hills and downhills both on the bike and run.  It was definitely steeper than my training routes.  
I am will to bet with 99.9% certainty that all the downhill running on tired (bike) legs did the damage. I just ran a marry (steamboat) which drops a good 1000+ feet, and even with hill training (including a downhill 20 miler), it still destroyed my quads. I will disagree with avoiding downhill running though...if you plan on racing downhill, you have to do some training downhill. It does increase the recovery time for the run, so you don't want to do it all of the time, but it does help keep you from blowing up on downhill races.

 
 Come to think of it, though, the cramps hit with the first couple minutes of the run before there were any actual downhills.  And I pretty much worked them out before I had to run down hill.

 I did do some down hilling while training, but to tell you the truth I took it easy as I could feel the strain on my joints.  Not that it still didn't do some damage.  It may have, but just want to clear up the details as I think them through.

Edited by Calminian 2009-06-11 2:27 PM


2009-06-11 6:51 PM
in reply to: #2208806

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Subject: RE: Cramps
It sounds like downhill running didnt cause the problem, but it may have expediated the problem. It sounds like you blew out your legs on the bike. Ride lots. Run lots. It will solve your issue. Good luck!
2009-09-28 2:16 PM
in reply to: #2208806

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Subject: RE: Cramps

I doubt this appreciation reply will be read, but I was searching today on cramping discussions and liked this one.  I cramp at every single race - sometimes significantly or severely.  I "attacked" the issue yesterday with a LOT of extra hydration (because I sweat profusely) and it still did not help.  I had to pee during the race, and had a lot of liquid in my stomach all the time (which did not seem to bother me too much) but the cramping was still very significant.   I was even cramping for the 7 hours AFTER my 2 1/2 hour race.  By that time I was well hydrated and stretched and massaged.  I feel fine today. 

I intend to try supplements and electrolyte replenishments and see how that goes.

 

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