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2009-08-19 9:15 AM

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Subject: Is it possible to have Triathlon legs and Mogul Skiing legs
I had posted about my plans to include more strength training with weights in the off season, but people responded that I should focus on more run and bike miles.  I have found that the weights really help with my skiing.

It occured to me on my run this morning that I may be trying to achieving something that is not possible.

The explosive power and strength required to ski moguls and the endurance required for triathlons.

I see several people posting from Colorado who may have some experience with this.

What are the thoughts.  If I can only be good at one, Moguls win.


2009-08-19 9:22 AM
in reply to: #2357707

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Subject: RE: Is it possible to have Triathlon legs and Mogul Skiing legs
I'm not as much a mogul skiier, as I now prefer the steep and deep, but I have at least developed a decent strength base the past few years in the weight room, but I'll still say that while it has made an improvement in my ability, the largest limiting factor in the skiing area is still endurance.  I can't see how hill repeats and other such bike/run focused workouts won't help with your skiing ability.  When I was doing workouts with a club team in college we would run the stairs at lane stadium (the stadium isn't tiered, so it's one long climb up to 5Q).

There's a limit to how much power you need, once you get there the next limiting factor is how many times can you do it in a row. 
2009-08-19 9:40 AM
in reply to: #2357707

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Subject: RE: Is it possible to have Triathlon legs and Mogul Skiing legs
I used to live for mogul skiing and can still hit them pretty good at age 53. At one point in time when I was in my early 30s I was seriously considering the pro mogul tour. That was back in the days before ramps were added to the runs and the jumps were made off the moguls.

Back in those days my main form of strength training was biking during the summer. Not just any biking, but biking up the biggest, longest hills I could find repeatedly all summer. That helped develop tremendous strength and endurance in my quads and calves. I actually rode my bike more back when I was "just" a skier than I do now that I'm more of a triathlete.

IMO weight lifting is far too short of an activity to build both the strength and endurance needed for repeated high speed mogul skiing. You would be much better off to bike extensively for strength and to increase your running to improve endurance.
2009-08-19 9:53 AM
in reply to: #2357707

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Subject: RE: Is it possible to have Triathlon legs and Mogul Skiing legs
NorthernNewbie - 2009-08-19 8:15 AM
What are the thoughts.  If I can only be good at one, Moguls win.

I started skiing at about age 10 and can ski moguls very well. I ski groomers exactly 0% of the time unless I'm out skiing with friends.

When I lived in Dallas I was in extreme cycling shape and loved to ski (probably averaged 10 days/year). I did not feel that my triathlon/cycling training did much positive for my skiing endurance or power. IMO, skiing is a very specific movement that's very hard to train for except by skiing (or maybe running down steep hills for hours).

Now that I live at a ski area and have put in 100+ day seasons for many years (less alpine in the last two seasons and more skate skiing), I think that alpine ski conditioning helped me get back into decent cycling shape quickly.

In short, I think cycling/skiing compliment each other very well but training cycling doesn't train skiing as much as vice-versa.

One other interesting point that I've now experienced twice is that triathlon training changed the shape of my ankle/lower leg enough to where my alpine ski boots did not fit any more and had to be replaced once (when I was younger) and greatly altered recently.
2009-08-19 10:03 AM
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Subject: RE: Is it possible to have Triathlon legs and Mogul Skiing legs
Donskiman - 2009-08-19 9:40 AM I used to live for mogul skiing and can still hit them pretty good at age 53. At one point in time when I was in my early 30s I was seriously considering the pro mogul tour. That was back in the days before ramps were added to the runs and the jumps were made off the moguls.

Back in those days my main form of strength training was biking during the summer. Not just any biking, but biking up the biggest, longest hills I could find repeatedly all summer. That helped develop tremendous strength and endurance in my quads and calves. I actually rode my bike more back when I was "just" a skier than I do now that I'm more of a triathlete.

IMO weight lifting is far too short of an activity to build both the strength and endurance needed for repeated high speed mogul skiing. You would be much better off to bike extensively for strength and to increase your running to improve endurance.


I have noticed the same burn in my legs from hard biking to hard moguls.  Funny, I hear people complain about hills, but I love them.  I would rather go up than down.  I have a hill 2.8 miles long by my house that starts every ride.  I guess I will just start going up and down 3 or 4 times.  Probably good training for both sports.

You are right about the ramps taking away from the moguls as a sport.  Anything for TV.  For the purists they are a joke.
2009-08-19 10:13 AM
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Subject: RE: Is it possible to have Triathlon legs and Mogul Skiing legs
NorthernNewbie - 2009-08-19 10:15 AM I had posted about my plans to include more strength training with weights in the off season, but people responded that I should focus on more run and bike miles.  I have found that the weights really help with my skiing.



What level of triathlon are you training for?  Sprint and Olympic weekend warriors will only benefit from lifting weights along with their endurance activities.  The average person is not going to bulk up and become slower on the bike or running.  By developing both power and speed it will only help your skiing and triathlon.  I will agree with the above that I seem to find skiing helps more with cycling rather than cycling helping with skiing.  Throw in some plyometrics to build explosiveness.  We did those all through high school track back in the day.


2009-08-19 11:45 AM
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Subject: RE: Is it possible to have Triathlon legs and Mogul Skiing legs
I agree about the plyometrics, to me that would be best for skiing and should also help in the tri. Weights have helped my skiing in the past as well, but this year I am going to do the PX90 plyometrics, you might check it out see what you think. I am planning to start it end of October beginning November. 
2009-08-19 12:21 PM
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Subject: RE: Is it possible to have Triathlon legs and Mogul Skiing legs
besttri - 2009-08-19 11:45 AM I agree about the plyometrics, to me that would be best for skiing and should also help in the tri. Weights have helped my skiing in the past as well, but this year I am going to do the PX90 plyometrics, you might check it out see what you think. I am planning to start it end of October beginning November.


I had never heard of plyometrics.  I googled it to see some exercises.  I have been doing these for skiing for 20 years.

I use a milk crate.  Get in a skiing stance next to it. Jump up to the side on it, jump off to the other side, jump back up, jump back down.  All while maintaining  my stance and not moving my hands from proper position.  I also do them forward and backward.  Then jump completely side to side over the box.

It is much harder than you think.  If I only wrote a book back then.
2009-08-19 12:55 PM
in reply to: #2357707

Subject: RE: Is it possible to have Triathlon legs and Mogul Skiing legs
Why would you waste time skiing bumps when you can go so much faster racing gates over on the ice!  Freestyle freaks... wait!  Thats the other board I belong to...  Just kidding.  I have nothing productive to add besides my friendly jab at freestyle skiing... 

 

2009-08-19 1:47 PM
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Subject: RE: Is it possible to have Triathlon legs and Mogul Skiing legs
chandy14ski - 2009-08-19 11:55 AM
Why would you waste time skiing bumps when you can go so much faster racing gates over on the ice! 


People ski on ice? That's weird.
2009-08-19 2:03 PM
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Subject: RE: Is it possible to have Triathlon legs and Mogul Skiing legs
breckview - 2009-08-19 12:47 PM
chandy14ski - 2009-08-19 11:55 AM Why would you waste time skiing bumps when you can go so much faster racing gates over on the ice! 
People ski on ice? That's weird.


Must be from the East Coast. ;-)


2009-08-19 2:11 PM
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Subject: RE: Is it possible to have Triathlon legs and Mogul Skiing legs
Donskiman - 2009-08-19 2:03 PM

breckview - 2009-08-19 12:47 PM
chandy14ski - 2009-08-19 11:55 AM Why would you waste time skiing bumps when you can go so much faster racing gates over on the ice! 
People ski on ice? That's weird.


Must be from the East Coast. ;-)


The right coast that is.

If you can learn to ski well in the east, you can ski well anywhere.

Nothing to add here except that east coast skiers are better. It's the crap conditions I say.

I also started riding as something to do in the off season. Not so much for exercise but for the thrill since 14 year olds don't care much for working out and fitness. I think that cycling helps with base ski fitness but it still takes skiing to get into shape for skiing.
2009-08-19 2:18 PM
in reply to: #2357707

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Subject: RE: Is it possible to have Triathlon legs and Mogul Skiing legs
I have a feeling you're not talking about water skiing

In that case, I have nothing to add....
2009-08-19 2:30 PM
in reply to: #2358480

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Subject: RE: Is it possible to have Triathlon legs and Mogul Skiing legs
Donskiman - 2009-08-19 3:03 PM
breckview - 2009-08-19 12:47 PM
chandy14ski - 2009-08-19 11:55 AM Why would you waste time skiing bumps when you can go so much faster racing gates over on the ice! 
People ski on ice? That's weird.


Must be from the East Coast. ;-)


probably why many quality racers are from the east coast. all we have is hard pack, while you guys have all the nice pow.

lol.. I hardly even ski around here any more
2009-08-19 2:37 PM
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Subject: RE: Is it possible to have Triathlon legs and Mogul Skiing legs
This post comes at the right time for me as it is around August that I really start thinking about snow and skiing and "sick" days when we have a good storm.  I still have some triathlons and cyclocross races to do, but I know Thanksgiving weekend I will be on some mountain getting in some skiing. 

Ski the East!!!!
2009-08-19 2:50 PM
in reply to: #2358441

Subject: RE: Is it possible to have Triathlon legs and Mogul Skiing legs
breckview - 2009-08-19 2:47 PM
chandy14ski - 2009-08-19 11:55 AM Why would you waste time skiing bumps when you can go so much faster racing gates over on the ice! 
People ski on ice? That's weird.


You don't ski, you RACE!

FWIW I condition my ski team every fall with a combination of Plyo's and cardio... half of the team run cross country and they are amongst  the strongest skiers.  The others are soccer players... either way it looks like Plyo's are a benefit in their skiing, but they do nothing of the sort for soccer or cross country... that's why they have pre-season... so you can get sport specific training in. 

If you live where you can do tri training all year long... again, I have nothing useful.


2009-08-19 3:00 PM
in reply to: #2358582

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Subject: RE: Is it possible to have Triathlon legs and Mogul Skiing legs
Yes, in 14 weeks and 1 day you could be cresting the last hill with the unloading ramp in sight. 

Your heart rate starting to rise with the butterflies in your stomach.

The long 7 month off-season will be over.


Sorry for those of you who don't get it, but then again.  If you didn't get you wouldn't have clicked on the thread.
2009-08-19 3:05 PM
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Subject: RE: Is it possible to have Triathlon legs and Mogul Skiing legs
NorthernNewbie - 2009-08-19 3:00 PM

Yes, in 14 weeks and 1 day you could be cresting the last hill with the unloading ramp in sight. 

Your heart rate starting to rise with the butterflies in your stomach.

The long 7 month off-season will be over.


Sorry for those of you who don't get it, but then again.  If you didn't get you wouldn't have clicked on the thread.


My wife got mad at me on Saturday. We were waiting for a letter from the bank regarding an auto loan. When I checked the mail I got really excited. She thought it was the letter. It was the first issue of Powder Mag for the season
2009-08-19 3:44 PM
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Subject: RE: Is it possible to have Triathlon legs and Mogul Skiing legs
Nothing really to add, I don't ski as much as I'd like anymore.  Last year was my best season skiing in 10+ years, attributable to tri-training (and losing 25 lbs).

Last week I took the fam up to the mountain I skied at a bunch in HS, posted a pic of my daugher on the chairlift to FB and got a bunch of flak for my "Now all we need is some snow" caption.  I get it, not everyone does.

2009-08-19 3:50 PM
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Subject: RE: Is it possible to have Triathlon legs and Mogul Skiing legs
graceful_dave - 2009-08-19 1:11 PM
Donskiman - 2009-08-19 2:03 PM
breckview - 2009-08-19 12:47 PM
chandy14ski - 2009-08-19 11:55 AM Why would you waste time skiing bumps when you can go so much faster racing gates over on the ice! 
People ski on ice? That's weird.


Must be from the East Coast. ;-)
The right coast that is. If you can learn to ski well in the east, you can ski well anywhere. 


That's not skiing, it's ice skating. As a former hockey player I already know how to ice skate. ;-)
2009-08-20 1:38 AM
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Subject: RE: Is it possible to have Triathlon legs and Mogul Skiing legs
offrhodes - 2009-08-19 3:37 PM This post comes at the right time for me as it is around August that I really start thinking about snow and skiing and "sick" days when we have a good storm.  I still have some triathlons and cyclocross races to do, but I know Thanksgiving weekend I will be on some mountain getting in some skiing. 

Ski the East!!!!

Wow, you must make some loooooooong drives to "know" you'll be skiing on TG. (me sitting here with all my fingers and toes crossed that everywhere will be able to open on time)

Seriously, though, winter of 07-08 was nothing short of phenomenal. Amazing. Outstanding. Crazy.good.skiing. I spent it snowshoeing.

As for the OP, plyo. People here were responding to your question assuming you wanted to excel in tris. Always keep your goal in mind.


2009-08-20 2:20 AM
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Subject: RE: Is it possible to have Triathlon legs and Mogul Skiing legs
I have not strapped a pair of boards onto my feet since 1988, that was the year i discovered snowboarding. There are definitely some differences between skiing and snowboarding regarding leg strength (i am of the school that when done properly it requires more strength and fitness to board then ski), anyway here are my thoughts.

Since i live in Florida I only get on the snow 10 days a year and it used to be a challenge to get into the shape i needed to ride aggressively ALL day. That is until I started training for triathlons. Since I started training a few years ago, i have the strength and endurance to go all day, open to close. This includes running moguls. My last trip was to Steamboat and I spent a good portion of the time riding Rolex, which is a mogul run. I had more fun that then any previous trip because I had the strength to go hard all day. All I did to train at the time was swim, bike, run and some PT.

So, yes, triathlon training will help with your mogul skiing...

-S

Oh, please don't be hating on me because I board, I am not one of those knuckle scraping teens that push all the snow to the bottom of the hill....
2009-08-20 7:14 AM
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Subject: RE: Is it possible to have Triathlon legs and Mogul Skiing legs
Slugger - 2009-08-20 2:38 AM
offrhodes - 2009-08-19 3:37 PM This post comes at the right time for me as it is around August that I really start thinking about snow and skiing and "sick" days when we have a good storm.  I still have some triathlons and cyclocross races to do, but I know Thanksgiving weekend I will be on some mountain getting in some skiing. 

Ski the East!!!!

Wow, you must make some loooooooong drives to "know" you'll be skiing on TG. (me sitting here with all my fingers and toes crossed that everywhere will be able to open on time)

Seriously, though, winter of 07-08 was nothing short of phenomenal. Amazing. Outstanding. Crazy.good.skiing. I spent it snowshoeing.

As for the OP, plyo. People here were responding to your question assuming you wanted to excel in tris. Always keep your goal in mind.



Crotched Mountain in Bennington, NH has been open Turkey Day weekend for 4 years straight.  It is not a big mountain and usually only has a couple runs open, but just to get out there is worth it.
2009-08-20 9:29 AM
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Subject: RE: Is it possible to have Triathlon legs and Mogul Skiing legs
snowriderinfl - 2009-08-20 1:20 AM I have not strapped a pair of boards onto my feet since 1988, that was the year i discovered snowboarding. There are definitely some differences between skiing and snowboarding regarding leg strength (i am of the school that when done properly it requires more strength and fitness to board then ski), anyway here are my thoughts. Since i live in Florida I only get on the snow 10 days a year and it used to be a challenge to get into the shape i needed to ride aggressively ALL day. That is until I started training for triathlons. Since I started training a few years ago, i have the strength and endurance to go all day, open to close. This includes running moguls. My last trip was to Steamboat and I spent a good portion of the time riding Rolex, which is a mogul run. I had more fun that then any previous trip because I had the strength to go hard all day. All I did to train at the time was swim, bike, run and some PT. So, yes, triathlon training will help with your mogul skiing... -S Oh, please don't be hating on me because I board, I am not one of those knuckle scraping teens that push all the snow to the bottom of the hill....


Hmmm, I'm not sure I agree that boarding requires more leg strength, but it does require "different" muscles. In addition to my love of mogul skiing, I have also spent extensive time on a board. I also do moguls on my board. Generally speaking moguls on a board is more difficult than on skis, and the speed is somewhat slower on a board. Properly executed, the legs tend to be far more involved in skiing than in boarding. I found it far easier to ride agressively all day than to ski at the same level.

Want a killer workout? Take up telemark skiing and do bump runs all day.

Performed at a high level all these activities take lots of strength and endurance. Triathlon training can be a big help, especially biking uphill and long runs. Plyo can help with short, intense runs, but may be of more limited value for the strength and endurance needed to ski/board a long mogul run nonstop.

Ski racing requires yet a slightly different set of muscles and skills, and park/pipe riding is also different. Deep powder also requires a slightly different skill set.

It's all good. In a couple of months we can do more than talk about snow, we can be enjoying it!
2009-12-28 9:57 AM
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Subject: RE: Is it possible to have Triathlon legs and Mogul Skiing legs
An answer to the question: YES.

I have only done 1 leg workout with weights, and 2 Plyometric workouts in the last year.  Everything else has been running and biking.  Untill the snow came a month ago the running had a lot of hills and since then it has been mostly on the treeadmill.  The biking for the last 2 months has been follwing Jorge's Winter plan on the trainer so that has been pretty intense.

I really skied moguls for the first time this year last night.  Well that is an understatement, I pounded them.  Top to bottom, no standing around, just bumps for 1:20 minutes straight.  The legs felt great, even after 7 miles on the treadmill this morning.  Probably felt better than if I had done my normal preparation with weights and Plyometrics.

The lower back is another story, that is sore.
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