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First HIM question
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 2009-08-27 4:00 PM |
 8 |  Subject: First HIM questionHello all, Long time lurker and first time poster. I have done a couple of Sprint and Oly distance tris last year and earlier this year. I am planning on doing the Big Kahuna tri in Santa Cruz, CA and have been following the HIM training program on this site http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/cms/article-detail.asp?articleid=... It seems like it is a little swim heavy and light on the bike training sessions. Anyone feel that way? Another question I have is about tri shorts vs bike shorts. Do people normally change for a HIM or maybe wear the bike shorts over the tri shorts? I feel like tri shorts don't have enough padding for 56 miles. TIA |
| 2009-08-27 4:06 PM in reply to: #2374954 |
Pro 4828     The Land of Ice and Snow | Subject: RE: First HIM question Welcome to BT! Swim LESS.....bike MORE...lots more...as much as you possibly can. I just did my first HIM on Sunday and can tell you that I am very glad I got in as much bike volume as I did in training. I rode so many VERY long rides that the 56 mile hilly course of my tri seemed kinda short to me. Well fitting tri shorts will be fine for a HIM race. You do not want to take the time to change in transition. But just make sure you train in them so you are used to it. I do not own bike shorts at all, use tri shorts only. Best of luck! |
| 2009-08-27 4:06 PM in reply to: #2374954 |
Alpharetta, Georgia Bronze member | Subject: RE: First HIM question Hi, welcome to BT! If you're referring to the beginner HIM training plan from this site (your link didn't take me to a plan), I know a lot of folks including me who have increased the longer bike rides in order to feel more comfortable in that area. I'm doing the Silver plan right now and I know the longer rides are 4+ hours - I don't remember much over 3.5 hours on the Beginner plan. The swim is my favorite part, so I never minded a swim-heavy plan  As for shorts, most races do not provide a changing area and nudity is not allowed, so you won't be able to completely change shorts. I've heard of people thinking about pulling bike shorts over tri shorts, but I'd think that would be terribly difficult to do when wet, and just wouldn't feel very good in general. The more long rides you get in your tri shorts, the more you should get used to it. |
| 2009-08-27 4:17 PM in reply to: #2374954 |
Master 1927 Guilford, CT | Subject: RE: First HIM question I'm fresh off my first half so I'll chime in. Ride all the time with Tri shorts. You'll get used to them. Try a couple different brands. You should be able to ride for a couple hours in tri shorts no problem. There is enough padding. The vast majority of people get by on tri shorts and I've never had anyone tell me they wore bike shorts.... Don't waste time changing...even though I probably could have in my lazy a** transitions... |
| 2009-08-27 4:31 PM in reply to: #2374954 |
Champion 10471 Dallas, TX | Subject: RE: First HIM question Yeah the link did not take me to a plan. Can you give us synopsis of what the plan calls for long ride wise? My boyfriend used a HIM training plan from BT last year. When I saw his plan I suggested that he do more long rides. He asked on the boards and everyone agreed- more long rides! For HIM this year... I'm doing six, 4.5 hour rides. That puts me in the 75 mile range. My plan calls for 5 hour rides (aka: 85-90 miles!)... but I think 75 miles will suffice. Others may argue, but I think I'll be fine for a HIM not doing 85 mile rides in training. Before these last 2.5 months with those rides, I was doing 55 mile rides every Sat. You want 56 miles to be a breeze. The more rides you do over 56 miles... the easier 56 miles becomes. AND my HIM training plan is very heavy on the swimming, but I'm a strong swimmer so I'm only swimming around 2-2.5 hours a week vs. the 3-4 hours a week the plan calls for. |
| 2009-08-27 4:36 PM in reply to: #2374954 |
| 8 | Subject: RE: First HIM question This is the plan I was talking about - the 52 in the end somehow got truncated http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/cms/article-detail.asp?articleid=52 |
| 2009-08-27 4:46 PM in reply to: #2374954 |
Master 1927 Guilford, CT | Subject: RE: First HIM question That's the one I was talking about... You definitely want to get that run base up to where it needs to be to finish too. Do not neglect it. My running got a late start and I wasn't where I should have been... Overall, if you do follow that plan to a T, I'm sure you will do really well. It is much easier said then done though...the mental aspect of it all is really important, so you need to build your confidence as well as your general fitness in my opinion and that is where altering things to get to where you want to be comes into play. I'm sort of talking out of both sides of my mouth here...but that is because I think it all depends on the individual... |
| 2009-08-27 4:47 PM in reply to: #2375045 |
Champion 11989 Philly 'burbs | Subject: RE: First HIM question raj_can_tri - 2009-08-27 5:36 PM This is the plan I was talking about - the 52 in the end somehow got truncated http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/cms/article-detail.asp?articleid=52 fixed the link. I am doing that plan now, and yes it seems very swim heavy to me. I realize swimming is the easiest on the body relatively but this is a bit much. If you look at your estimated race times and the actual race distances compared to the training there are several swim workouts longer than race time/distance, only one bike that could go up to 56, and only one 2 hour run. I just did that today. It was a zone 3 and I got in 13+ in the 2 hours. I thinki I will extend some of the bike sessions since I have never biked more that 44.5 miles to date. I have two HIM on the schedule for next year and I will not be using this plan again. Some workouts don't make sense and seem silly, some are incomplete or have typos and it just seems disjointed to me. |
| 2009-08-27 4:50 PM in reply to: #2375045 |
Champion 10471 Dallas, TX | Subject: RE: First HIM question raj_can_tri - 2009-08-27 4:36 PM This is the plan I was talking about - the 52 in the end somehow got truncated http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/cms/article-detail.asp?articleid=52 So, I just looked at some of the longer workout weeks.. the ones with 9.5, 10 and 10.5 total hours for the week. I saw the longest bike being 2.5 hours. In my opinion, this is not long enough. You need longer rides. A few rides in the 3:00-3:30 range WILL not hurt you. Especially if you don't ride super fast. For most people 2.5 hour rides are not going to get people much over 55 miles. I am using a 26 week plan out of Training Plans for Multisport Triathletes... and it looks something like this for my long rides: Weeks 1-8, 1 hour to 1:15 Weeks 9-16, 1:00 to 2:30. More 2-2:30 rides. Weeks 17-23, 3:00 to 5:00 The fact that your plan only seems to top out at 2.5 hours, really isn't great. While I'm using my training plan as the example, I did a HIM in 2007 with the same volume I have now... and I had a coach back then. |
| 2009-08-27 4:53 PM in reply to: #2375064 |
Champion 10471 Dallas, TX | Subject: RE: First HIM question acumenjay - 2009-08-27 4:46 PM That's the one I was talking about... You definitely want to get that run base up to where it needs to be to finish too. Do not neglect it. My running got a late start and I wasn't where I should have been... Overall, if you do follow that plan to a T, I'm sure you will do really well. It is much easier said then done though...the mental aspect of it all is really important, so you need to build your confidence as well as your general fitness in my opinion and that is where altering things to get to where you want to be comes into play. I'm sort of talking out of both sides of my mouth here...but that is because I think it all depends on the individual... Yes, it is based on the individual... what their base is... etc. I can tell you that my boyfriend did this training plan for his first HIM last year... and sure he finished, but he finished completely miserable and hating life. He just didn't have enough long rides or runs to get him ready for a strong race. But that's how it worked for him. For others it might be different. |
| 2009-08-27 5:01 PM in reply to: #2375066 |
| 8 | Subject: RE: First HIM question If you look at your estimated race times and the actual race distances compared to the training there are several swim workouts longer than race time/distance, only one bike that could go up to 56, and only one 2 hour run.. Yup -exactly my point. I have run a few marathons and I am trying to run more than what the plan calls for. Have done a few 45+ miles rides including a 100K. I was thinking of bumping up the times on some of the bike rides as I am around 17 mph on flats for bikes and 3 hrs won't get me past 50 miles if I threw in hills. |
| 2009-08-27 5:07 PM in reply to: #2375091 |
Champion 10471 Dallas, TX | Subject: RE: First HIM question raj_can_tri - 2009-08-27 5:01 PM If you look at your estimated race times and the actual race distances compared to the training there are several swim workouts longer than race time/distance, only one bike that could go up to 56, and only one 2 hour run.. Yup -exactly my point. I have run a few marathons and I am trying to run more than what the plan calls for. Have done a few 45+ miles rides including a 100K. I was thinking of bumping up the times on some of the bike rides as I am around 17 mph on flats for bikes and 3 hrs won't get me past 50 miles if I threw in hills. Sorry slow day at work... thus all the replies... if you want to come off that bike fresh and ready to run that half marathon the way you know you can... up the time on the bike in training. Having 3.5-4.0 hour rides won't hurt ya. |
| 2009-08-27 5:26 PM in reply to: #2375099 |
Sensei Sin City | Subject: RE: First HIM question I'm going to disagree with some of the other posters. I don't think the swim is out of line (I just looked at the total time spent on swimming each week). It was equal or less than the run, which feels right to me. However, I did think the bike was actually a little low as well. You should be comfortable doing 50-60 miles on the bike during training for an HIM, IMO. For me, that takes anywhere from 3-4 hours. That is what my current plan has me doing. I'm not saying you can get away with doing less. I had never biked over 50 miles during the training leading up to my first HIM and survived it, but I was not happy during the run portion. I hit 50 now comfortably and feel much more prepared. I sort of have a theory that they want you to be REALLY strong on the swim so you get out of the water feeling fresh. It would suck getting out of the water already exhausted swimming 1.2 miles becuase you didn't get enough in during training. I think everyone expects to be somewhat tired off the bike before the run, but tired after the swim could cause bigger issues. Plans are not set in stone if you feel like you need to change them around. However, I would keep some things in mind: You need to train your weaknesses. So if you bike is slow/difficult, you need to get more saddle time in (or running time if your run is weak). If you are going to skip a workout or swap it with something different, then drop a workout in your strongest area. If you are really a strong swimmer, switch a bike ride or run for the swim. Personally, my swim is probably my strength, so I probably miss one swim every other week and/or cut a workout down by leaving out the cool down or shortening the warmup. If I have a 3k swim workout with 500 WU and 200 CD, I might warm up for 200 and drop the cooldown and get out of the pool 10 minutes earlier but still do the meat of the workout. That's just me. |
| 2009-08-27 5:27 PM in reply to: #2375099 |
| 8 | Subject: RE: First HIM question Appreciate your responses. The lack of bike distances and excess swimming kinda bothered me and just wanted to get a reality check.. On a related note - any advantage of training with aerobars - seems like a 1-2 mph gain doesn't seem much compared to the lack of brakes |
| 2009-08-27 5:37 PM in reply to: #2375091 |
Sensei Sin City | Subject: RE: First HIM question raj_can_tri - 2009-08-27 3:01 PM If you look at your estimated race times and the actual race distances compared to the training there are several swim workouts longer than race time/distance, only one bike that could go up to 56, and only one 2 hour run.. Yup -exactly my point. I have run a few marathons and I am trying to run more than what the plan calls for. Have done a few 45+ miles rides including a 100K. I was thinking of bumping up the times on some of the bike rides as I am around 17 mph on flats for bikes and 3 hrs won't get me past 50 miles if I threw in hills. That's not atypical though. I would say that 95% of my swims are longer than 2000 yards (1.2 miles) but I will probably not run more than 12-13 and bike over 56-60 more than a couple times leading up to the race. |
| 2009-08-27 5:43 PM in reply to: #2375126 |
Sensei Sin City | Subject: RE: First HIM question raj_can_tri - 2009-08-27 3:27 PM Appreciate your responses. The lack of bike distances and excess swimming kinda bothered me and just wanted to get a reality check.. On a related note - any advantage of training with aerobars - seems like a 1-2 mph gain doesn't seem much compared to the lack of brakes The advantage of riding in aero is not going faster per say, but getting comfortable in the aero position. I agree, I stay on the base bar a lot when riding in town because I want to be close to the brakes. However, when I get out a bit, I get into aero and just cruise. I don't care that I'm a couple MPH faster, but I want to get my body/back used to being in that position for a long time (the time I need to be in aero during the race). |
| 2009-08-27 5:45 PM in reply to: #2375126 |
Master 1927 Guilford, CT | Subject: RE: First HIM question Do the math. That's 15 minutes. Screw brakes. |
| 2009-08-27 6:48 PM in reply to: #2374954 |
Master 1610 Kirkland, WA | Subject: RE: First HIM question purely on a time basis, while i was Half iron training, my bike and run time were pretty much equal (around 5 hrs each), with my swim being between 2-3 hrs. . i find that 3 hrs of swimming time equates to about 10k yards, which is enough per week for me. |
| 2009-08-27 7:45 PM in reply to: #2374973 |
Master 1327 Ann Arbor, Michigan | Subject: RE: First HIM question I agree with AquaGirl.....I did the BT 20 week Beginner Plan available to all, and it got me to the finish line of Boise 70.3 but I felt way under trained. I finished mind you, but was pretty shattered. When I came back, after licking my wounds, I picked up the 16 week Intermediate HIM plan preparing for a HIM this Sunday (I just got injured so no-go) and feel that it was much meatier and made me more confident. Longer rides, more bricks. I also know other folks who are "silver" members and did the 20 week Beginner plan available to "silver" members that looks meatier than the free 20 week plan. I just said this tonight at an OWS swim, I think a lot of folks underestimate HIM distance-- getting the nutrition right, etc. It's one thing to swim 1.2. To bike 56. To run 13.1. But putting it all togt! I love the distance and will live to race another day, but man, nothing like hopping off the bike and thinking "OMG I STILL HAVE TO RUN 13.1!!!" |
| 2009-08-27 7:54 PM in reply to: #2374954 |
Master 1927 Guilford, CT | Subject: RE: First HIM question Actually, I think it was the silver plan that I began to follow now that I think about it. Anyway, the point of my last post didn't really come off because I was messing around. Training in aero is really to get used to it like mentioned. Otherwise your back will probably be killing you on race day... |
| 2009-08-27 7:59 PM in reply to: #2374954 |
Extreme Veteran 535 Central New York | Subject: RE: First HIM question Andrea said it right when she said don't underestimate this distance. I just finished my first HIM in July, and I used the silver 20-week plan because I felt the one you are using to be way too light on the bike. After my first 60 mile ride in training, I was so glad that I had done it because it was much harder than I expected it to be. By the time the race rolled around, 56 miles felt relatively easy...the run on the other hand... |
| 2009-08-27 8:12 PM in reply to: #2374954 |
Regular 95 Lafayette, LA | Subject: RE: First HIM question I used the beginner training plan on this site for my first HIM. Everyday exactly as written on the plan and had a wonderful experience for my first. It was everything that i expected and i thought the plan did a great job of getting me to a point where i could enjoy the day. |
| 2009-08-27 9:03 PM in reply to: #2374954 |
Member 210 | Subject: RE: First HIM question I'm 8 weeks from my first HIM. I'm following the free beginner plan. The plan specifically says to adjust to one's strengths and weaknesses as needed. A) About the swim: It may seem like a lot, but I've cut a minute-30 off of my open water 750m swim. I went from a 2:10/100m avg to 1:59/100m avg in 3 weeks. That's still not fast by FOP pace, but its a huge improvement for me. I have an Oly tri on Labor day, and I can't wait to see how my swim is. 2) As to the bike, I will definitely get some 56+ mile rides in before the HIM. I can already cover 40 miles in 2.5 hours with ease in a workout, and I'll be pushing myself to go farther in the next 6 weeks before the taper. C) For the run, I've done one full- and two half-marathons in the past 9 months, and I feel like the run parts of this plan are adequate for my level of fitness. My biggest problem is remembering to go slow on some of the workouts. I'm not super fast, but I sometimes forget to take it easy on an easy day. 5) Its a Free Plan, and any plan is way better than the No Plan I had last year!  |
| 2009-08-27 9:33 PM in reply to: #2374954 |
Master 1702 Southern Ontario | Subject: RE: First HIM question I skimped on the swimming for my plan. I didn't use a plan from here I got it from another website - but I know now after my first HIM that I needed more running than I did. I had a LOT of time in on the bike and I'm really glad - I came off the bike feeling good in terms of fitness (not so much on the GI issues). I wore the same thing throughout. I wore a wetsuit - so it didn't matter that my shirt wasn't really fitted. I would get used to doing longer rides in your tri shorts. Mine aren't my favourite shorts to ride in - but they do the job on race day. Edited by Silver_wlf 2009-08-27 9:34 PM |
| 2009-08-27 10:29 PM in reply to: #2374973 |
Expert 1070 Denver Area | Subject: RE: First HIM question aquagirl - 2009-08-27 3:06 PM Welcome to BT! Swim LESS.....bike MORE...lots more...as much as you possibly can. I just did my first HIM on Sunday and can tell you that I am very glad I got in as much bike volume as I did in training. I rode so many VERY long rides that the 56 mile hilly course of my tri seemed kinda short to me. Well fitting tri shorts will be fine for a HIM race. You do not want to take the time to change in transition. But just make sure you train in them so you are used to it. I do not own bike shorts at all, use tri shorts only. Best of luck! x2 big time. on all of it. I just finished my first HIM this month. with a great saddle, and lots of time one it, no need bike short. if the plan doesn't feel right pick another, make sure and import it as ending on race day (or couple days before). Hooray HIM training! Edited by AdaBug 2009-08-27 10:29 PM |
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