Tebow pro-life Superbowl ad

Pro

4277

Parker, CO

Subject: RE: Tebow pro-life Superbowl ad

bradword - 2010-01-28 10:40 AM

ADollar79 - 2010-01-28 10:26 AM

wabash - 2010-01-28 12:23 PM we shouldnt even allow abortion to be a choice in the first place.
my taxes and insurance shouldnt pay for that procedure.
it's just as optional as getting lasik, or a face lift/tummy tuck, lipo suction, etc. and you pay it yourself.

then cancel your insurance and add a company that doesn't provide it. I think you would be SHOCKED if you knew how many insurance companies file a d&c as a standard medical procedure.

So are you saying a D&C is not a normal procedure? My wife had one a few months ago. The hardest thing she has done in her life. We were preg. and the baby was found to have no heart beat. After 2 weeks of waiting to see if she would lose the baby by herself, her body still hadn't acted. She had to have a d&c as a regular procedure. The baby had already passed, so to say that an insurance company shouldn't cover ANY d&c is silly. (this from a very pro-life person).

Sorry to hear that. I'm sure it was difficult for both of you.

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Elite

3090

Spokane, WA

Subject: RE: Tebow pro-life Superbowl ad

rayd - 2010-01-28 11:56 AM

bradword - 2010-01-28 10:40 AM

ADollar79 - 2010-01-28 10:26 AM

wabash - 2010-01-28 12:23 PM we shouldnt even allow abortion to be a choice in the first place.
my taxes and insurance shouldnt pay for that procedure.
it's just as optional as getting lasik, or a face lift/tummy tuck, lipo suction, etc. and you pay it yourself.

then cancel your insurance and add a company that doesn't provide it. I think you would be SHOCKED if you knew how many insurance companies file a d&c as a standard medical procedure.

So are you saying a D&C is not a normal procedure? My wife had one a few months ago. The hardest thing she has done in her life. We were preg. and the baby was found to have no heart beat. After 2 weeks of waiting to see if she would lose the baby by herself, her body still hadn't acted. She had to have a d&c as a regular procedure. The baby had already passed, so to say that an insurance company shouldn't cover ANY d&c is silly. (this from a very pro-life person).

Sorry to hear that. I'm sure it was difficult for both of you.

x2. Very sorry for your loss.

Champion

5529

Nashville, TN

Subject: RE: Tebow pro-life Superbowl ad

dontracy - 2010-01-28 12:52 PM

ADollar79 -
YOU believe what YOU believe. I believe what I believe. None of that is about to change in a thread on BT so why go down that road with this discussion?

I don't know. I changed my understanding about this during a late night drive on Rt. 91 in Connecticut in an old Nissan Altima. Suddenly the light bulb went on. Why should BT be any different.

Then, Don, have at it. I respect your belief system and your passion on this particular issue. You have gone to great lengths to explain yourself and I can admit that I have thought differently about the subject because of your intelligent presentation of your views. In fact, I would go as far as to say that if given the chance I would enjoy the opportunity to have a beer or cider with you and have this discussion. Because I think it would be a discussion.

However, on a open forum, where this issue has been hotly debated over and over and over, civil discussion on extremely sensitive issues aren't discussions. They are name calling and trying to win arguments. I, personally, have no desire to be a part of that process. If you want to go down that road, then I strongly suggest you start a separate thread. That is all I am saying

My Race Log

Philadelphia, south of New York and north of DC

Subject: RE: Tebow pro-life Superbowl ad

ADollar79 -

However, on a open forum, where this issue has been hotly debated over and over and over, civil discussion on extremely sensitive issues aren't discussions. They are name calling and trying to win arguments. I, personally, have no desire to be a part of that process. If you want to go down that road, then I strongly suggest you start a separate thread. That is all I am saying

I hear you Andrew. I understand. (I'll buy the first round with you if we ever have the opportunity )

The OP (hi Jim) started the thread because of the Tebow ad. This ad is stirring up conversation in lots of places. I think given that, another thread on BT seems appropriate.

The Tebow ad is already a national cultural event at some level. I imagine even more so after it airs.

Edited by dontracy 2010-01-28 12:15 PM

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Champion

4942

Richmond, VA

Subject: RE: Tebow pro-life Superbowl ad

ADollar79 - 2010-01-28 12:45 PM... My point is that the two posters were going down the same road we always go down. It becomes a bunch of finger pointing, name calling and you defend your belief system discussion.

...

actually, Brian and I are friends and heck we are even "facebook buddies." I think him and I were at the end of the road for our discussion, a sort of "agree to disagaree".

I understand the arguments on both sides. For whatever reason, when I do all my own internal self-searching, I just come out on the pro-choice / anti-abortion side. I respect Brian's viewpoint and but for the woman's choice - we do agree.

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Member

276

San Diego

Subject: RE: Tebow pro-life Superbowl ad

this thread is going to be too epic to even want to get involved...

=)

Philadelphia, south of New York and north of DC

Subject: RE: Tebow pro-life Superbowl ad

coredump -

But to cast everyone who calls themselves "pro-choice" as "pro killing babies" smacks of inflammatory rhetoric and does nothing to engage in actual conversation or rational debate.

Chris, I don't think that's what I wrote.

There are people of good will all across the spectrum of this issue.

Being self describe as pro-choice does imply that one supports legal direct abortion. In turn, direct abortion is the act of killing an unborn child. Honestly, I think the rhetorical spin is coming from the pro-choice side in this.

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Champion

11989

Philly 'burbs

Subject: RE: Tebow pro-life Superbowl ad

condorman - 2010-01-28 12:09 PM

I guess when it comes down to it, I just don't feel I have the right to tell a woman what she can or cannot do with her body.

Here's my issue with the "her body" argument; there is also another body involved, not just hers.

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Regular

156

Subject: RE: Tebow pro-life Superbowl ad

I applaud him for standing by his convictions. It's easy to call one's self a Christian and avoid standing up for and defending the core principals of our faith when it makes others uncomfortable. He chose to risk whatever potential repercussions there may be in order to further perpetuate his beliefs (God's commands). Very bold of him. Kudos.

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Expert

715

PA

Subject: RE: Tebow pro-life Superbowl ad

ok im out!
i just like debating issues.
typed words can seem offensive, and i dont want to offend or spew.
but anyone else can continue! i'll still read it!

Jason

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Philadelphia, south of New York and north of DC

Subject: RE: Tebow pro-life Superbowl ad

The annual post super bowl commercials reviews are going to be interesting.

How to you think this ad will be received? (of course it hasn't been aired yet, so its hard to critique it)

Ignored?

Help start a civil national debate?

Lead to a further divide?

Move people one way or the other on the issue?

Something else?

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Pro

6767

the Alabama part of Pennsylvania

Subject: RE: Tebow pro-life Superbowl ad

wabash - 2010-01-28 12:23 PM we shouldnt even allow abortion to be a choice in the first place.
my taxes and insurance shouldnt pay for that procedure.
it's just as optional as getting lasik, or a face lift/tummy tuck, lipo suction, etc. and you pay it yourself.

So when the kids are born into poverty, you are OK with your taxes paying for their medical needs, food stamps, cash assistance? How about the added cost burden to the schools? And if the kid is unwanted and subsequently mistreated, and becomes a criminal, you are OK with the tax burden to fund the prisons? (I am not saying all unwanted kids become criminals, but one of the interesting thesis in Freakonomics is that the decline in crime was related to the legalization of abortion).

It seems to me that you (and I) are going to pay one way or another. It's like I tell families who don't want the school to know if their kid has a mental health diagnosis because they don't want the kid "labelled". The kid WILL be labelled. They can help define that label as an illness, or they can allow the kid's behaviors to label the kid as "bad", "defiant", "uncontrollable", etc.

Personally, I think abortions should be mandatory. Screw choice. You're getting one whether you want it or not.

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Expert

715

PA

Subject: RE: Tebow pro-life Superbowl ad

gearboy - 2010-01-28 1:38 PM

wabash - 2010-01-28 12:23 PM we shouldnt even allow abortion to be a choice in the first place.
my taxes and insurance shouldnt pay for that procedure.
it's just as optional as getting lasik, or a face lift/tummy tuck, lipo suction, etc. and you pay it yourself.

So when the kids are born into poverty, you are OK with your taxes paying for their medical needs, food stamps, cash assistance? How about the added cost burden to the schools? And if the kid is unwanted and subsequently mistreated, and becomes a criminal, you are OK with the tax burden to fund the prisons? (I am not saying all unwanted kids become criminals, but one of the interesting thesis in Freakonomics is that the decline in crime was related to the legalization of abortion).

It seems to me that you (and I) are going to pay one way or another. It's like I tell families who don't want the school to know if their kid has a mental health diagnosis because they don't want the kid "labelled". The kid WILL be labelled. They can help define that label as an illness, or they can allow the kid's behaviors to label the kid as "bad", "defiant", "uncontrollable", etc.

Personally, I think abortions should be mandatory. Screw choice. You're getting one whether you want it or not.

your avatar says you're from the Alabama part of Pennsylvania. are you referring to Perry county?

My only response to your post is "Love your neighbor as yourself".
whoever you define as your neighbor is up to you.

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Pro

6767

the Alabama part of Pennsylvania

Subject: RE: Tebow pro-life Superbowl ad

ADollar79 - 2010-01-28 11:18 AM I am most bothered by CBS suddenly reversing its anti-advocacy policy and using this issue to demonstrate it. I do have to wonder if they would grant the same rights to an pro-choice advocacy group. I tend to think not.

From the discussion I heard on NPR this morning, I suspect the #1 reason CBS is allowing it is financial. Apparently several big advertisers are not planning to advertise, and the prices have dropped for the ad time overall. I think if there was a prochoice ad that did not use the word "abortion" that ponied up $2.5 million, they could get on the air as well. I see it less as CBS really advocating a position about abortion, and more as a company trying to make money (which is it's own controversy...)

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Champion

14571

the alamo city, Texas

Subject: RE: Tebow pro-life Superbowl ad

UrsusAdiposimus - 2010-01-28 1:01 PM

In a perfect world, all pregnant women who believe they are unfit to be a mother would give up their babies for adoption. But we don't live in a perfect world. Women get raped. 16-year olds who come from broken homes make mistakes and get impregnated by abusive boyfriends who leave then leave them to fend for themselves. Many babies that get put up for adoption belong to ethnic minorities that are much, much less likely to be adopted and often end up trapped in a dysfunctional and abusive foster home.

staying off topic...but this use to be the reason i was pro choice, although i would never have an abortion myself. the fact is, abortion does not fix the 16 year old girl - she needs love, education, therapy. the fact is, the number of medically necessary/emergency (i.e. the case of incest or rape) is SUCH a small percentage of abortions (last number i saw was 4% but i can not back that up). the fact is, many adopted kids turn out completely normal - check out the BT thread on adoption, on foster parents and respite care.

the point of the ad is - your fetus COULD BE tim freakin tebow. that is all. it is trying to get people to stop and think about what their choice REALLY means. not saying have every baby. not saying down with abortion. but just asking you to realize the potential of that unborn baby.

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Subject: RE: Tebow pro-life Superbowl ad

dontracy - 2010-01-28 10:33 AM

The annual post super bowl commercials reviews are going to be interesting.

How to you think this ad will be received? (of course it hasn't been aired yet, so its hard to critique it)

Ignored?

Help start a civil national debate?

Lead to a further divide?

Move people one way or the other on the issue?

Something else?

1. It will be received well by pro life people, poorly by pro choice people.
2. No.
3. No.
4. Not a further divide, but won't close the gap either
5. If you are influenced on abortion by what a 22 (?) year old quarterback says, well then......
6. Something Else? I love that song... brings back good memories http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nc4HWiH_pzw (NOTE, beginning probably NSFW)

Oh yeah, Hitler, Amin, Pol Pot.... they were all fetuses (feti?) too once

Edited by ChrisM 2010-01-28 12:48 PM

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Pro

6767

the Alabama part of Pennsylvania

Subject: RE: Tebow pro-life Superbowl ad

wabash - 2010-01-28 1:44 PM
your avatar says you're from the Alabama part of Pennsylvania. are you referring to Perry county?

My only response to your post is "Love your neighbor as yourself".
whoever you define as your neighbor is up to you.

Hahaha! No - but I'm still in that vast stretch between Philly and Pittsburgh.

As to loving my neighbors, in the context of this thread, I would hope to not abort a pregnancy, but at the same time, I believe I do not know what is best for everyone at all times in all situations, and that there are costs associated with carrying a pregnancy to term, both immediately and in the future. If I am getting cosmetic surgery to just look good better, I pay for it myself. If I have facial deformities, I expect to have it covered. So I have no issue with public funding of abortion, especially within a very (over-)simplified "yes/no" format.

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Champion

8540

the colony texas

Subject: RE: Tebow pro-life Superbowl ad

run4yrlif - 2010-01-28 8:32 AM I'm not bothered by the commercial nearly as much as I am by the organization that's presenting it--Focus on the Family and their leader James Dobson. To me, it's pretty ironic that that guy advocates a birth for every conception *and* telling parents how to beat all of those little miracles.

troll
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Science Nerd

28760

Redwood City, California

Subject: RE: Tebow pro-life Superbowl ad

bradword - 2010-01-28 12:40 PM So are you saying a D&C is not a normal procedure? My wife had one a few months ago. The hardest thing she has done in her life. We were preg. and the baby was found to have no heart beat. After 2 weeks of waiting to see if she would lose the baby by herself, her body still hadn't acted. She had to have a d&c as a regular procedure. The baby had already passed, so to say that an insurance company shouldn't cover ANY d&c is silly. (this from a very pro-life person).

I am so sorry for your loss. That is so hard to go through.

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Giver

18427

Subject: RE: Tebow pro-life Superbowl ad

Gaarryy - 2010-01-28 2:13 PM

run4yrlif - 2010-01-28 8:32 AM I'm not bothered by the commercial nearly as much as I am by the organization that's presenting it--Focus on the Family and their leader James Dobson. To me, it's pretty ironic that that guy advocates a birth for every conception *and* telling parents how to beat all of those little miracles.

troll

Heh...yes. Exactly.

But really. If you search "run4yrlif" and "Dobson" on the forum, you'll find this is hardly the first time I've posted about that jackhole.

(this time I've refrained from calling him a dirty child molester, though)
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Pro

4339

Husker Nation

Subject: RE: Tebow pro-life Superbowl ad

run4yrlif - 2010-01-28 1:28 PM

Gaarryy - 2010-01-28 2:13 PM

run4yrlif - 2010-01-28 8:32 AM I'm not bothered by the commercial nearly as much as I am by the organization that's presenting it--Focus on the Family and their leader James Dobson. To me, it's pretty ironic that that guy advocates a birth for every conception *and* telling parents how to beat all of those little miracles.

troll :)

Heh...yes. Exactly.

But really. If you search "run4yrlif" and "Dobson" on the forum, you'll find this is hardly the first time I've posted about that jackhole.

(this time I've refrained from calling him a dirty child molester, though)

Honestly, Jim, when I read the article yesterday it reminded me of you and I figured the angle you were going to take on the issue was the monetary aspect of the advertisement, since your last post about him was regarding that in conjunction with layoffs. I think you would have had more supporters had you gone that route.

Edited by Bripod 2010-01-28 2:18 PM

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Champion

8540

the colony texas

Subject: RE: Tebow pro-life Superbowl ad

run4yrlif - 2010-01-28 1:28 PM

Gaarryy - 2010-01-28 2:13 PM

run4yrlif - 2010-01-28 8:32 AM I'm not bothered by the commercial nearly as much as I am by the organization that's presenting it--Focus on the Family and their leader James Dobson. To me, it's pretty ironic that that guy advocates a birth for every conception *and* telling parents how to beat all of those little miracles.

troll

Heh...yes. Exactly.

QUOTE]

nah..... I just miss ya

hope all is well with you
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Giver

18427

Subject: RE: Tebow pro-life Superbowl ad

Bripod - 2010-01-28 3:18 PM

run4yrlif - 2010-01-28 1:28 PM

Gaarryy - 2010-01-28 2:13 PM

run4yrlif - 2010-01-28 8:32 AM I'm not bothered by the commercial nearly as much as I am by the organization that's presenting it--Focus on the Family and their leader James Dobson. To me, it's pretty ironic that that guy advocates a birth for every conception *and* telling parents how to beat all of those little miracles.

troll

Heh...yes. Exactly.

But really. If you search "run4yrlif" and "Dobson" on the forum, you'll find this is hardly the first time I've posted about that jackhole.

(this time I've refrained from calling him a dirty child molester, though)

Honestly, Jim, when I read the article yesterday it reminded me of you and I figured the angle you were going to take on the issue was the monetary aspect of the advertisement, since your last post about him was regarding that in conjunction with layoffs. I think you would have had more supporters had you gone that route.

So there's that. But my friend Hollis put it pretty well. If Dobson wants to save the lives of kids, he could send the $2.8 million over to Haiti and actually accomplish his mission.
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Tebow pro-life Superbowl ad (Page 2)

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